EU The TPD means nothing

[Papillon61]

This crap will go to court. Most defintely. The courts (in Europe) go by evidence. Hard evidence. Not "could, might, possibly and chiiildren". Period. At least in Germany.
But courts are slow. Thorough and slow.
So: stock up. Now.

It's already gone to Court. The Italian Corte di Cassazione in Italy has already declared high taxation on eliquids is unconstitutional because there is no evidence that vaping causes anywhere near the level of harm that smoking tobacco does. And yes, Mr Cheng has been sending me gifts on a regular weekly basis for the past three months. Wish he would stick a butterfly sticker on his packages sometimes or add a nice little sketch... you know, make it a little more personal.

Don't know whether you've noticed but for some time now fasttech has an option at checkout to select discreet packaging if you wish. I never chose it but I suspect this is where all the gifts are coming from.

 

[Anjaffm]

It's already gone to Court. The Italian Corte di Cassazione in Italy has already declared high taxation on eliquids is unconstitutional because there is no evidence that vaping causes anywhere near the level of harm that smoking tobacco does.

I know. Isn't it lovely?
This is the only way to stop "those up there" from messing with the populace, our rights, our lives.
And the courts are very good at that

 

[Steamix]

Isn't the last of it... Just heard in the grapevine that Austrian supreme court shot down legislation that would have handed e-cigs and liquids to the government tobacco monopoly after one e-cig maker took them on...

 

[Papillon61]

Well sometimes being in the EU sucks with all the directives that are sometimes so misguided but there are a lot of checks and balances really - like anti monopoly and pro consumer directives. So let's keep fingers crossed. Here in Malta no one is even mentioning the TPD because the market is so very small. I don't have any Maltese acquaintances who vape. The people you see vaping here are generally tourists.

 

[proteckt3d]

Dear EU, my freezer is for storing vegetables and ice cream. I'm going to continue doing my own liquid and choose a loop in the law to buy nic after regulations are set in place. Looking on the positive side, at least they don't put a grandfather date like they did in US, so in this respect I think it's good news for vaping because some consensus will be met ( as it will in US ) in the current propositions, I expect. Worst case scenario, I'll end up extracting the nicotine myself

 

[ckc]

The time to stop this nonsense has passed with the TPD, even though i still sign stuff etc.

I've just finished vaping liquid I bought in 2012. 50mg and mix my own. I'm still on 24mg or so all day every day.

I don't have lots of different RTA's, I have lots of the same one so I can rebuild from parts if needed in the future.

At some point I'm going to get my camera and take pictures of all the vape shops etc in my town because they won't be there by the end of next year.

I won't be buying whatever the tobacco comps manage to get through the regs and I won't be joining any future stats on vaper numbers based on sales after the TPD.

Sad, very sad.

 

[only the best]

The time to stop this nonsense has passed with the TPD, even though i still sign stuff etc.

I've just finished vaping liquid I bought in 2012. 50mg and mix my own. I'm still on 24mg or so all day every day.

I don't have lots of different RTA's, I have lots of the same one so I can rebuild from parts if needed in the future.

At some point I'm going to get my camera and take pictures of all the vape shops etc in my town because they won't be there by the end of next year.

I won't be buying whatever the tobacco comps manage to get through the regs and I won't be joining any future stats on vaper numbers based on sales after the TPD.

Sad, very sad.

is it really that bad? perhaps the TPD will be rejected because of TW court battle

 

[Lemwise]

I'm going to continue doing my own liquid and choose a loop in the law to buy nic after regulations are set in place.

The funny thing is you can buy 99% pure nicotine as a consumer and probably will still be able to do so after the regulations are in place. We can buy everything we need to make e-juice as separate components so what's the point of the TPD? it's only going to encourage a black market with no quality control.

 

[stevegmu]

Enforcement is left up to the member states. I am sure most will comply, except CR, of course...

 

[proteckt3d]

The funny thing is you can buy 99% pure nicotine as a consumer and probably will still be able to do so after the regulations are in place. We can buy everything we need to make e-juice as separate components so what's the point of the TPD? it's only going to encourage a black market with no quality control.

I suppose there is no direct intention to eliminate vaping. Take for example the max 20mg nic concentration. Dr F. was saying that the only reason why a lower number was not chosen or forbid it entirely was that whoever makes these decisions went through one of his papers showing that most smokers need at least that concentration to be successful in making the switch. I agree there is a number of unknown effects and that legislation takes everything in consideration, but I don't see the positives, at the very least over combustion out of everything, indicated so far taken very much in consideration too. If you really think about it from every perspective you can, you arrive at very few causes why this is happening however for me there is no one to blame actually; everyone involved directly or indirectly have their interests and do what money tells them to do ultimately; it's just the industry is not at that stage to stand up for itself, or even to prove itself if it makes better sense. Personally I am happy that vaping got so far that it was possible for me to try it. The way I see it and the only real thing that is worth discussion, no matter how bad any regulations will be in any country, is that new vapers will continue taking vaping in the same weird or unexpected ways most of us did and discover the full picture after. Vaping wont be stopped. There you go, kind of very abstract view so take from it what you want and here's to the others, preferably smokers, just getting into vaping.

 

[VaEHp]

Show your Global Vapers Support, Sign and Share ! Vapers, Vendors, Friends, Loved ones that support your choice to Vape !

**Today is the last day to show your support on this !**

http://article20legalchallenge.com/

This is all anyone needs to do:

 

[ckc]

is it really that bad? perhaps the TPD will be rejected because of TW court battle

Maybe so. Do you think that will end regulation of vape products ? If the TPD gets canned something else will be put in it's place by individual states more than likely and watch it get very messy.

 

[PD Vapes]

They may be able to ban sales within their Country, but they would have a hard time regulating what individual vapers buy outside of said Country. Customs have a hard time enough, I doubt they're going to inspect every electrical device or dripper bottle in-case it doesn't match up to TPD guidelines. I can't see China being clamped down on.

How would they be able to enforce guidelines on individual vapers? I honestly don't think they could.

I mean yeah, it's going to kill off nearly all business, which is a real shame. A community has grown from vaping and provided jobs in a growing market. Though as for the average vaper with more than a few braincells, there is plenty of ways around it. The sale of VG-PG-NIC-Flavours... i highly doubt will be effected, just pre-made jucies.

What really winds me up though and I can't understand why they haven't factored it in. Most people who try cig-alikes, go back to smoking. They just don't cut it. Yet give someone who wants to quit and ego/evod set-up and they seem to take to it like a duck on water. Except an evod under 4/5 of those guidelines would be banned, never mind your aspires, kangers, crowns, smoks.... Never has there been a smoking alternative which has been as successful as e-cigs/vapers and the EU wants to go and f**k that all up.

Typical.

 

[only the best]

Maybe so. Do you think that will end regulation of vape products ? If the TPD gets canned something else will be put in it's place by individual states more than likely and watch it get very messy.

probably not, i imagine it will rear its head again in another fashion - so happy i am a vaper and not a vape shop owner

 

[PD Vapes]

<snip> so happy i am a vaper and not a vape shop owner

This is pretty much what the TDP is going to end up punching a hole in. Less vapers and more shop owners.

Sad times man... sad times.

 

[Zdenek Klofac]

Maybe so. Do you think that will end regulation of vape products ? If the TPD gets canned something else will be put in it's place by individual states more than likely and watch it get very messy.

I agree, it is at least some regulation, which is unfortunately directly linked with tobacco regulation as well and doesn't really bring the value to the people who want to quit smoking. It has passed the European parliament and is no way to be taken back, all member states has to implement till 20 May 2016, otherwise it would become illegal to sell tobacco, electronic cigarettes and refill containers.

 

[Zdenek Klofac]

I suppose there is no direct intention to eliminate vaping. Take for example the max 20mg nic concentration. Dr F. was saying that the only reason why a lower number was not chosen or forbid it entirely was that whoever makes these decisions went through one of his papers showing that most smokers need at least that concentration to be successful in making the switch. I agree there is a number of unknown effects and that legislation takes everything in consideration, but I don't see the positives, at the very least over combustion out of everything, indicated so far taken very much in consideration too. If you really think about it from every perspective you can, you arrive at very few causes why this is happening however for me there is no one to blame actually; everyone involved directly or indirectly have their interests and do what money tells them to do ultimately; it's just the industry is not at that stage to stand up for itself, or even to prove itself if it makes better sense. Personally I am happy that vaping got so far that it was possible for me to try it. The way I see it and the only real thing that is worth discussion, no matter how bad any regulations will be in any country, is that new vapers will continue taking vaping in the same weird or unexpected ways most of us did and discover the full picture after. Vaping wont be stopped. There you go, kind of very abstract view so take from it what you want and here's to the others, preferably smokers, just getting into vaping.

One effect which TPD implementation will bring and is not mentioned very often is, that for vaping product would be very hard to build up any known brand name and loyalty as it was builded for ages for cigarettes before they were partly banned. New TPD treat us exactly as them, ban on radio add, ban on any printed add, ban on audiovisual presentation etc, so here thinking carefully one should ask the question why ? Why we cannot build up the vaping brands and present them as alternative, why there is so repeated point that we serve as gateway to smoking ? The answer is for sure money and tobacco lobbying in Brusell in time of the TPD preparation. Related to availability of ecig products almost each of the big tobacco giants already invest and owns ecig maker and when combined with their distribution coverage and sales force, it would became available in any tobacco / convenience and vape store in all Europe. But, it will be their ejuices and ecigs, not the independent ones.

 

[proteckt3d]

One effect which TPD implementation will bring and is not mentioned very often is, that for vaping product would be very hard to build up any known brand name and loyalty as it was builded for ages for cigarettes before they were partly banned. New TPD treat us exactly as them, ban on radio add, ban on any printed add, ban on audiovisual presentation etc, so here thinking carefully one should ask the question why ? Why we cannot build up the vaping brands and present them as alternative, why there is so repeated point that we serve as gateway to smoking ? The answer is for sure money and tobacco lobbying in Brusell in time of the TPD preparation. Related to availability of ecig products almost each of the big tobacco giants already invest and owns ecig maker and when combined with their distribution coverage and sales force, it would became available in any tobacco / convenience and vape store in all Europe. But, it will be their ejuices and ecigs, not the independent ones.

Politics are the same all over the world

 

[Myrany]

I realize I am American and probably have no business here but...

I really do wish all of you well in what is coming. It is going to get very ugly for all of us before too long and I find that to be a truly shameful situation. Governments that are supposed to be caring for those they govern are actually condemning them to a slow and painful death. Those of us who are prepared will manage but to those still smoking this crap on both sides of the ocean is nothing short of a death sentence.

 

[Vapez]

Any news on TPD?

Vapez