Titanium wires

[Fernand]

Isn't it fun? The next topic du jour is METALLURGY. For 1000 points, Titanium heat treating is said to require unusually clean conditions. What are the types of contamination that should be guarded against while annealing Titanium alloys? What are possible consequences of contamination in terms of toxicity?

 

[imeothanasis]

Same conditions are required to make any wire Fern, even if its not annealed.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Isn't it fun? The next topic du jour is METALLURGY. For 1000 points, Titanium heat treating is said to require unusually clean conditions. What are the types of contamination that should be guarded against while annealing Titanium alloys? What are possible consequences of contamination in terms of toxicity?

Uh, potential contaminants -- basically almost everything in air. Consequences of contamination -- properties of the wire will change. Anneal in vacuum or inert environment -- no magic needed lol.

 

[tchavei]

Isn't it fun? The next topic du jour is METALLURGY. For 1000 points, Titanium heat treating is said to require unusually clean conditions. What are the types of contamination that should be guarded against while annealing Titanium alloys? What are possible consequences of contamination in terms of toxicity?

In case of titanium, oxygen itself [emoji14]

The better vacuum a furnace has, the longer and thus effective is the anneal process without oxide formation. This basically explains why some annealed titanium is softer than other annealed titanium... The quality of the vacuum itself

Regards
Tony

Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.

 

[alanbt58]

Not all titanium wires are the same guys.

When you want to bring a new product to the market, you have to think first and thats what I did as I always do.

About titanium. Why we brought it to the market:

1. biocompatible, so suitable to vaping
2. it can be made in wires
3. It can be made in diameters suitable to vaping
4. It doesnt have zero resistance
5. It has lower resistance than nichrome and kanthal, something we like because we can make more threads, so better smoke and taste
6. It had great temperature coefficient for the upcoming Proteus
7. Its not VERY springy but it is more than nichrome and kanthal. (So I had to find a way to make it NO springy)

These factors make titanium the best wire for vaping. But there are so many titanium wires out there, so I had to take some more decisions. What grade, how clear, based on what standard, and I had to find a way to make it less springy. Also I had to see if factories can keep the same quality in every batch.

My decisions were:

Grade 1, that is the most clear
But even if grade 1 is the most clear, there are grade 1 wires that are more clear than others. The clearness was between 99 and 99,8%. I choose the last one.

The standard that I based was ASTM B863

The way to stop its springness? I annealed it. Easy and healthy procedure.

Thats how a product must come to the market. Not just "titanium wire". And thats how my wires are made.

I suppose that all sellers around the world will do it like this now that they have learned what they have to do, so you will be able to buy the right stuff

Hi Imeo, I have bought some titanium Grade 1 from ESG i have found the same as the previous member ie i mad e a coil 8/7 wraps round 2.5mm dia this came out at 1.86 ohms (the same coil made with ESG titanium not grade 1 came out at 0.52 Ohms) the new "grade 1 titanium" is extreamly springy and near impossible to make a decent coil. The wire is 28 AWG.

Please tell us how to anneal the titanium wire to see if it make it less springy and bring the resistance down to what it should be.

I believe the grade 1 titanium that ESG is selling is not in fact good grade 1. I should have bought from you because you did all the correct research to find the best titanium wire for the proteus
Regards Alan

 

[monkkx]

Imeo, how good is the GG-store grade1 Ti? I bought this wire from them a wile ago. It's working well, it's not springy.
We consumers have no way to know if a wire is good or not, counterfeit or genuine ... All these grade1 not being grade1 or not good grade1 are worrying... You should consider having a list of certified source and organize the sellers to sell that imeo-certified grade1 to avoid too much headache for consumers

 

[imeothanasis]

Alan and monk,

GG store in Spain and Bitfumo in Italy carry my titanium wire. At least for now. Maybe esg will carry it in a while.

I tried hard for several months reading about titanium wires and checking them. I contacted to at least 6-7 factories in China, trying to find out if they will send me the right stuff. Only one did it. After that, I placed 3 orders with them in about 4-5 months time to check the batches. They were all the same and the right ones.

 

[monkkx]

Great

 

[monkkx]

So I have peace of mind enjoying the annealed pure Ti wire I got. I really like the stuff

 

[alanbt58]

Alan and monk,

GG store in Spain and Bitfumo in Italy carry my titanium wire. At least for now. Maybe esg will carry it in a while.

I tried hard for several months reading about titanium wires and checking them. I contacted to at least 6-7 factories in China, trying to find out if they will send me the right stuff. Only one did it. After that, I placed 3 orders with them in about 4-5 months time to check the batches. They were all the same and the right ones.

Hi Imeo thanks for the reply, i however agree with monkkx that we need some way of knowing which suppliers have the correct grade 1 wire for us to but. Other wise when proteus comes i guess it wont work correctly without the correct grade of titanium.
I have checked Italy and Spain GG stores and none of them have any 28AWG wire in stock.
The titanium grade 1 wire is very expensive (particularly from ESG) which is a same if us customers waste our money on sub standard wire
Regards Alan

 

[f1vefour]

We consumers have no way to know if a wire is good or not, counterfeit or genuine ..

You do have a way, ohms per inch or cm.

 

[monkkx]

You do have a way, ohms per inch or cm.

I'm sure there's way, but I want the peace of mind given by trusted sources
Not everyone has a resistance reader, and I'm not sure this measure is sufficient to qualify the right metal.
But yeah, this measure is an indication, along with the mat aspect of the annealed wire ...
But still, I don't want to do the quality check after I've purchased something from a vendor.

 

[f1vefour]

I do a spec check on anything I can that comes from China and Imeo stated thats where his wire comes from. You're vaping a TC capable mod, it has an accurate ohm display.

 

[calinbotez]

I believe that I bought the last 20 m of Ti grade 1 wire from GG Spain. Sorry.... I didn't tried it yet, because it didn't arrive.
I have now an decent TC capable mod. I don't know if it is appropriate to say the brand here, on GG forum. For now, the only proper Ti wire I have is Ti grade 2, 28 gauge, which I bought months ago from ESG ( I don't mention the last Ti grade 1 from ESG, bought and tried also, which, it seems, is not good). So, I tried a coil, 6 wraps, 2.5mm inner diameter, 0.6 ohms of Ti grade 2. I put it in Tilemahos v2 and tried the TC mode, which has a setting for Ti. It works perfectly! Absolutely perfectly. So, as far as I see, Ti grade 2 from ESG works very well in TC mode.

P.S.: after some research on Google, it seems that Titanium has 38 grades, depending of materials used in alloys. The first 4 grades are unalloyed Titanium, the differences between grades being various materials, but the Ti is pure, no other metals added. Grade 1 is the most ductile and grade 4 is less ductile.

 

[imeothanasis]

Hi Imeo thanks for the reply, i however agree with monkkx that we need some way of knowing which suppliers have the correct grade 1 wire for us to but. Other wise when proteus comes i guess it wont work correctly without the correct grade of titanium.
I have checked Italy and Spain GG stores and none of them have any 28AWG wire in stock.
The titanium grade 1 wire is very expensive (particularly from ESG) which is a same if us customers waste our money on sub standard wire
Regards Alan

Spain and Italy will receive more awg in a while alan. I will send them more titanium wire together with the new rebuildable part of Tilemahos, that is in about 2 weeks I hope

For now, they have 0,25mm and 0,32mm. They will soon receive 0,3 - 0,35 and 0,4mm titanium wires

 

[imeothanasis]

I'm sure there's way, but I want the peace of mind given by trusted sources
Not everyone has a resistance reader, and I'm not sure this measure is sufficient to qualify the right metal.
But yeah, this measure is an indication, along with the mat aspect of the annealed wire ...
But still, I don't want to do the quality check after I've purchased something from a vendor.

You are right on this monk. Resistance measure is not sufficient to qualify the right metal. And of course you have to know what you buy before you buy it.

 

[imeothanasis]

I do a spec check on anything I can that comes from China and Imeo stated thats where his wire comes from. You're vaping a TC capable mod, it has an accurate ohm display.

you can really check the resistance of titanium on a TC capable mod F1. The reason is that:

1. You dont know the temp of the room. But even if you know it, you cant make easily the maths if your room temp is different than 20 Celsius degrees.
2. The mod will send current to the wire to measure its resistance and it will increase it before you read it. What you will read is a resistance at a temp that you dont know

 

[imeothanasis]

I believe that I bought the last 20 m of Ti grade 1 wire from GG Spain. Sorry.... I didn't tried it yet, because it didn't arrive.
I have now an decent TC capable mod. I don't know if it is appropriate to say the brand here, on GG forum. For now, the only proper Ti wire I have is Ti grade 2, 28 gauge, which I bought months ago from ESG ( I don't mention the last Ti grade 1 from ESG, bought and tried also, which, it seems, is not good). So, I tried a coil, 6 wraps, 2.5mm inner diameter, 0.6 ohms of Ti grade 2. I put it in Tilemahos v2 and tried the TC mode, which has a setting for Ti. It works perfectly! Absolutely perfectly. So, as far as I see, Ti grade 2 from ESG works very well in TC mode.

P.S.: after some research on Google, it seems that Titanium has 38 grades, depending of materials used in alloys. The first 4 grades are unalloyed Titanium, the differences between grades being various materials, but the Ti is pure, no other metals added. Grade 1 is the most ductile and grade 4 is less ductile.

esg titanium grade 2 doesnt really work on TC mods cali. Ok, I see that there is a lot of misunderstooding on TC mods and thats because no one is willing to give the right info. The reason? Its because the more confused people are, the more the sales of a product, especially if its bad made. I will expalin you what is going on in a while

 

[imeothanasis]

what is TC control in very simple words?

a wire at 20 Celsius degrees has a resistance at for example 0,8 ohm
a wire at 280 Celsius degrees has a resistance at for example 1,9 ohm.


Check this table to understand what is going on:

T= 20----180----190----200----210----220----230----240----250----260----270-----280
R= 0,8---0,9------1------1,1----1,2----1,3-----1,4----1,5-----1,6----1,7----1,8------1,9

T=temperature
R=resistance


Ok, when you put a temp on the display of a TC mod, you tell it to stop sending current to the wire when the resistance of the wire reaches a specific point that matches the point of the temperature. If you put on the display a temp at 210 Celsius degrees, you say to the mod to stop sending current when the resistance of the wire goes up to 1,2 ohm (according to the above table). So, when the mod sees that resistance of the wire goes to 1,2 ohm, it stops working, or its working by keeping temp at this level.

Why not all metals work with temp control?

They work. But devices with the wrong wire on them work as a VW devices. You dont hold a temp device in your hands like this but just a simple VW device.

Unfortunately, most if not all temp mods today work as VW devices because of a simple reason: They dont measure the right temp even if they use the right wire. And if you dont measure the right temp you dont protect yourself from burned taste or dangerous fumes from the evaporated liquid. Its simple as that.

Thats why all wires seem that they work on temp devices but the measurements of these mods are totally out of control. You will understand this if you increase the temp on these devices, OR leave atomizer without liquid.

 

[AdamAnd]

Great to get it explained. I noticed the resistance on the titanium wire would go up when heated. Now any info on the new re-buildable part we are wondering what could be next. Thanks Adam