Tobacco Companies and Vaping

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by EastSideLove, Aug 23, 2014.

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  1. EastSideLove

    EastSideLove Full Member

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    Hello everyone. I heard somewhere that Tobacco companies are moving into the ecigarette field. However they are not using brand names like Marlboro and Camel but own companies/brands like Blu. This means we could be vaping some tobacco industry product and not know it. Indeed I've heard that Phillip-Morris, the same company that owns Marlboro also owns Blu. The thought here is that these Tobacco companies are not to be trusted and could easily be putting bad things into their ejuice or maybe using hazardous materials in their products. I'm wondering if anyone knows of specific brand names or products that should be avoided. Thx.
     
  2. stevegmu

    stevegmu ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Given they are under a microscope, I would have no problems trusting their e-liquid. Who makes the e-liquid for BLU? Johnson Creek- one of the largest and most respected e-juice makers in the country...
     
  3. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    They do and I'd never buy one, except if I broke my ecig far from home and was thinking about smoking a cigarette instead (and at this point that'd be a cold day in hell). They also serve the purpose of getting some people started down the path of vaping and away from smoking so they aren't totally useless. But yeah, I'd never trust what's in them nor do I ever want to give them another penny of my money. Here's an article that mentions who makes what and where they are going as far as BT goes. Trendy vapor tanks muscling into e-cigarette sales | Reuters
     
  4. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Yes, but what Johnson Creek makes for you and what they make for BT may well be two different things. How many people actually like the taste of Blu? Not once in 45 years has BT ever given me a reason to trust them.
     
  5. Zanaspus

    Zanaspus Super Member

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    If their dabble into SNUS was any indication, I wouldn't worry. Vile stuff.
     
  6. stevegmu

    stevegmu ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    I like their menthol. If they were able to make a reliable pack, I would try them again.
    I don't buy into conspiracy theories. Someone always talks...
     
  7. WillyZee

    WillyZee Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I see BT completely owning the vape industry within 10 years ... that's only if BG doesn't just hand it to them within 3 years :blink:
     
  8. p7willm

    p7willm Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Not to put a damper on the conspiracy theorists but there is a simple reason that tobacco companies use Blu and not Marlboro as the name of their ecigs. They are not allowed to use the name marlboro in advertising in the US and they can use Blu.
     
  9. GunMonkeyINTL

    GunMonkeyINTL Senior Member Verified Member

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    Blu is owned by Lorrilard, and Marlboro (unrelated company) is marketing their own brand something Ten, I think. The ones I've tried from the BT companies, I would recommend avoiding, but because they don't perform very well, rather than any concern over dangerous additives or configurations.

    I think that the basis of your question is unfair. Not that the BT companies deserve our pity or anything, but it does seem like your question is based on the assumption that the BT companies are these nefarious entities bent on wholesale murder by poisoning. Granted, their track record is not good, but I don't think that anyone has any evidence that they've ever done any of this out of pure evil.

    Looking at this issue without prejudice, I would say that the BT e-cig products should be avoided because they are ineffective, and they are ineffective because they are too safe. Their products, as a whole, use low-power, low-capacity batteries, high-resistance atomizers, and very simple juices. For example, one of the reasons that Blu cartomizers are so ineffective at getting people off cigarettes is that they are 100% VG. When trying to mass-market an e-juice, this is the safe approach since it eliminates the risk with PG-intolerant users. Unfortunately, 100% VG juice doesn't produce very much throat hit, especially in low-powered, high-resistance devices.

    While we all laud the "self-policing" of the advanced e-cig market, I think this market represents the much riskier product-set. Little to no testing is actually performed on ejuices to ensure chemical stability, propensity to allergic reactions etc. Additionally, the more advanced devices, which happen to be the same ones we find effective replacements for cigarettes, also require some care and caution to use properly and safely. Improper use of the more effective products could result in injury or property damage.

    I doubt you could get a Blu/Vuse battery to blow up on you if you tried, and likewise doubt you could poison yourself with their pre-loaded cartridges. On the other hand, a sub-ohm mech mod being fed DIY juice could possibly poison or injure the user.

    I think the BT companies will continue to take the safe route that renders their e-cig entries essentially ineffective. The advanced/refillable market is the only effective alternative to tobacco, but carriers more risk.
     
  10. Lurch

    Lurch Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    GunMoney is correct, according to an article in Bloomberg Businessweek (February 10, 2014), Altria brought Green Smoke (an e-cig company) for $110 million and have started their own brand, Mark Ten.

    Reynolds has a brand called Vuse. According to the Wall Street Journal, "in Colorado, where Vuse was introduced in July, the product gained 55 percent of the e-cigarette market in a few months."

    As pointed out in the article, if the FDA bans internet sales, these companies already have relationships with retailers and already have an established distribution line which will totally kill the little folks.
     
  11. bluecat

    bluecat Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    I think differently. BT is regulated out the wazoo. If you smoked cigarettes and did not know they were bad for, then there is something wrong with you. Even the packaging warns you.

    They make a product and it isn't that bad. I have used them and don't mind them at all. The only issue is they are as expensive as can be. Form factor and ease of use is top notch. The flavoring isn't bad either. My guess is they won't blow up in anyone's face either.

    I tend to leave my tin foil hat in the closest for after a case of beer. I have always wondered what will kill me first the beer, smoking aluminum foil or the government.
     
  12. Vaslovik

    Vaslovik Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    I could not use their product without knowing it, I use a mech with an RBA, and make my own juice. They got all my money they are ever going to.
     
  13. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    I see many of the Big Tobacco companies manufacturing e-cigs as being cut-throat business men looking to monopolize the e-cig market. A popular e-liquid manufacturer recently had to find a new liquid nicotine supplier because a Big Tobacco company had bought out his previous supplier and was doubling the cost if he chose to continue buying from there. He had to temporarily shut down his business until he could secure another supplier.

    Big Tobacco would like to influence the FDA to regulate e-liquid to be sold only in child-resistant prefilled cartridges (ie Blu). No bottled e-liquid with nicotine. No fruit, candy, or desert flavors like many of us enjoy ("these attract children to try them"), just tobacco and menthol flavors. This would give them an unfair advantage and put most e-liquid and mod manufacturers out of business. Besides, who wants to go back to using prefilled cartridges? Not I.

    People will say there will always be a black market for nicotine-based e-liquids in bottled form. That may be true, but do we really want to resort to that? I don't. US production would be banned, and international shipping would be stopped by US Customs. Some say we could make our own nicotine e-liquid from tobacco leaves. Yeah, good luck with that idea.

    Vaping as we know it today could be the best that we have ever enjoyed. FDA regulations could put a stop to that.
     
  14. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    I humbly disagree. Okay, I agree a[bout the part of BG handing it over to BT. But it's gone too far. If the FDA succeeds, especially with flavors, I see it more like prohibition. It was floated around here recently that there are 6 million vapers in the US. I've only seen a small smattering of people on here that even liked BT's ecigs. Just speaking for myself, I'd rather risk a fine or going to jail for buying on the black market than buy another item from BT. But I know, what we're really working at is keeping choices open and plainly visible and available for new vapers down the road.
     
  15. K31Scout

    K31Scout Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Enjoy these glory days of vaping. I'm positive the BT lobby has already dished out a literal ton of money.
     
  16. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    Currently, Blu is Owned by Lorillard. Which is Independent of Phillip-Morris.

    But soon, in all Likelihood, R.J. Reynolds is going to Acquire Lorillard. But at the Time of the Sale, Blu is going to be Spun Off to the Imperial Tobacco Group.

    Reynolds, Lorillard Dump Blu E-Cigarettes In $27 Billion Merger - Forbes
     
  17. stevegmu

    stevegmu ECF Guru ECF Veteran

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    Bags of cash?
     
  18. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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  19. XBarbarian

    XBarbarian Super Member Verified Member

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    BT isn't out of the ordinary. they are representative of all big industries. "greed is good" has destroyed business, across the spectrum. pink slime etc. All large profitable industries operate exactly the same. and who is the primary owner of BPharma, BT, Insurance, you name it? Banks.
     
  20. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All ECF Veteran

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    I'm Not Justifying or Condoning what BT has done in the Past. But where was the FDA in All of This?

    The FDA Approved the Chemicals that BT wanted to put into Cigarettes. And Isn't it the FDA's Role to Ensure that what Is in a Cigarette is Supposed to be there?
     
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