sounds more like the methanol that comes from the first heating.... Methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol and therefore appears first in the process...
Tobacco extraction using heated Ethanol
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sounds more like the methanol that comes from the first heating.... Methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol and therefore appears first in the process...
Methanol appears in trace throughout a run, with a slightly higher concentration early in the run. It will concentrate slightly if a reflux column is used. Methanol also appears mainly in a fruit - based mash. Grain mashes produce very little, and sugar washes virtually none.
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I found a source for "ethenol absolute" 99.8%. Reasonable price I think...$35 for 2.5liter. Now I must get hold of customs to see if they will issue me a permit, before I can buy it...
In the mean time I got myself a cigar (Alec Bradley MAXX) today to do my first cold maceration. I lit it up and took a few drags of it. First "smoke" I had in 4 months. A few was enough. Very proud to say vaping tastes way better than smoking... I did it to see how that smokey flavour will turn out. I then cut it neatly with the cigar cutter and blew it out. I then cut it up with the scissors and put it in a empty tea bag. Tied the bag up and covered it with PG. The smokey smell in the tobacco is just evident enough to give a good balance I thought. Will be interesting to see how it comes through in the end....!
In the mean time I got myself a cigar (Alec Bradley MAXX) today to do my first cold maceration. I lit it up and took a few drags of it. First "smoke" I had in 4 months. A few was enough. Very proud to say vaping tastes way better than smoking... I did it to see how that smokey flavour will turn out. I then cut it neatly with the cigar cutter and blew it out. I then cut it up with the scissors and put it in a empty tea bag. Tied the bag up and covered it with PG. The smokey smell in the tobacco is just evident enough to give a good balance I thought. Will be interesting to see how it comes through in the end....!
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Update... that "smokey" flavour quickly turned into that stale and vile smell of a nipped cig ..... It stayed evident right threw the hot extraction. I went through with it and steeped the juice in a ultrasonic bath. It has got a nice rounded taste but the stale smell is still there. Don't think it will subside, so down the drain it goes...I need the bottle for other extractions.
I love cigars, but the smell of a dead stogie is not one I can imagine wanting to capture. .. 
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Yeah like I said already.... I set out to capture a smokey flavour, not a stinky stogy. It started off well. A nice balanced smokey wiff at the start. That didn't last long though...in hindsight I should've known that.
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When sampling a new tobacco (or experimenting with an extraction process) I never extract more than 1/2 oz at a time to minimize solvent loss/expense. Over the last four years I've extracted several hundred different tobaccos just to find the 18 or so I -really- like. Most of the ones I didn't care for went down the drain and since I buy tobacco by the ounce whatever loose tobacco was left over got tossed as well. There's no telling how many pounds of tobacco I've thrown away, 1/2 oz at a time. Even so I've spent far less than if I had been buying retail juice and I've found enough tobacco blends I like to ensure having a wide variety of NETs.
You never know till you've tried it which is why I'm always experimenting with something new....
Yeah i'm constantly loosing sleep contemplating new ideas...
Speaking of...i'm using my newly acquired ultrasonic bath to steep faster, and it works beautifully for me. I'm going to use it to try and speed up my cold extraction process. Try it on one extraction first.... Put it into the bath for say 5off 8min cycles, then put it back in the cupboard for 2 days.... then repeat the cycle again....I'll leave the mix for at least a week, so the tobacco can soften and start the breakdown process before I do the first bath.
The water does heat up in the bath, to about 100F. I guess that would make it a semi heat process. There is also the option to replace the water after every cycle to keep it a true cold extraction...?
You're thoughts...?
My apologies for going off topic from this thread, but I thought while I have your attention i'll post it here.
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movement = friction = heat... pretty much no way around the heating issue with USC's ... might want to try a bit of ice in the water... it might help.
Does your ultrasonic bath have a heat only (no vibration) option? Macerated tobacco can take quite some time to heat up, an 8 minute ultrasonic cleaning cycle won't allow sufficient time for the tobacco and solvent to warm.
Here's my suggestion for a hybrid (hot/cold) PG based extraction incorporating an ultrasonic cleaner;
Place the shredded tobacco in a canning jar. Pour in enough PG to just cover it, then add about 15% extra and seal the jar.
Heat the macerated tobacco 60 to 90 minutes at a temperature no higher than 150F, then use the ultrasonic cleaning cycle. Allow it to cool and store the jar in a dark place for a few days.
Repeat the heat and ultrasonic cycle every few days.
After two or three weeks mix up an in-process sample and test it. An in-process sample can be made by drawing 10 drop of solvent from the jar of macerated tobacco and mixing it with 40 drops of pre-mixed base (nic, VG and PG). Once mixed, vape it. A RDA (dripper) works best for sampling. *When determining the ratio of VG/PG in your pre-mixed base, just remember that your extract is PG based and will account for 20% of the total mixed sample.
Repeat in-process sampling every week thereafter until the flavor suits you. The longer the extraction period, the stronger the flavor will be. When you're satisfied with the flavor you can separate the tobacco and solvent (now an extract) and filter it.
No it only has a vibration function. It takes about 4 × 8min cycles to heat itself up from 40F to 100F. That to me is a lot of friction.
Yeah that sounds like a solid method. My tobaccos are arriving in a few days time. Will get into it and will certainly report back on my progress. Thanks for your input. Much appreciated.
Hey Str8... any new advice on ethanol extracting other than the warm/hot ( 120-150F) with the freeze filtering happening? Im finally running out of my extracts and will be getting back into some serious volume increases to restore my stocks... been trying to keep up with current methods listed in this thread... and BTW, ethanol based extracts seem to keep rather well for over a year, altho one did go bad ( it was a cigarette tobacco type, not a pipe blend) ended up smelling like ammonia... 3 out of 4 VG based extracts turned "sour" ( took on a moldy scent, dumped those down the drain) but all the other pipe blends done in ethanol kept true their original arouma and flavor for the last 16 months. 1 "spicy rum" based pipe tobacco ( custom blend no longer available from a local shop) actually improved substantually as it aged.
For quick extraction I still rely on 12 hours @ 160 - 165F. I don't start the "countdown" until the bath/macerated tobacco reaches the target temperature which usually takes close to an hour.
Ethanol based extracts do seem to store exceptionally well, much better than I originally thought they would. Some of mine are over two years old and taste better now than when they were fresh. I suspect longevity may be linked to the tobacco that's extracted. I've been experimenting with storing well aged extracts in the freezer next to the liquid nic. I believe when stored in the freezer they'll remain at peak flavor for many years. Unfortunately, I won't know for sure until several years have passed.... I've only had one extract go bad, it was a hot PG based extraction. After two years in storage it developed a chemical like smell so I dumped it. But then I actually had a sealed liter of PG go bad after a year of storage, when opened it smelled like acetone and tasted even worse so I dumped it. Since then I'm picky about who I buy PG/VG from.
Ethanol based extracts do seem to store exceptionally well, much better than I originally thought they would. Some of mine are over two years old and taste better now than when they were fresh. I suspect longevity may be linked to the tobacco that's extracted. I've been experimenting with storing well aged extracts in the freezer next to the liquid nic. I believe when stored in the freezer they'll remain at peak flavor for many years. Unfortunately, I won't know for sure until several years have passed.... I've only had one extract go bad, it was a hot PG based extraction. After two years in storage it developed a chemical like smell so I dumped it. But then I actually had a sealed liter of PG go bad after a year of storage, when opened it smelled like acetone and tasted even worse so I dumped it. Since then I'm picky about who I buy PG/VG from.
Just when I think I understand a process something new or unexpected happens. After performing a bulk extraction of C&D's Mississippi Mud I ended up with 625ml of extract, reduced it by 75% and placed the concentrated extract in the freezer. After 72 hours @ -20F I freeze filtered it, but instead of the expected semi-solid waxy gunk I encountered solidified oil (a lot of it) in the bottom of the jar. It resembled roughly ground tea leaves in texture, was black in color and clung tenaciously to -everything- it touched. I assume the normal gunk is mixed in with the oil perhaps giving it this unusual texture and appearance. I've freeze filtered countless extractions including several other batches of this specific tobacco but this is the first time I've encountered heavy solidified oil during this stage of the process and the first time I've seen oil deposited as a semi-solid rather than a separated liquid. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or bad thing at this point, only time will tell. I normally allow freeze filtered extracts to sit undisturbed at room temperature for a week or two giving any oils time to separate and coalesce before the final filtering, my interest peaked I'll be watching this one closely.
Hey Str8 help me out here plz... wth do you do with all the juice?
By my figuring you must have a few gallons stashed. It's mind boggling to me to even imagine, seeing that i'm faffing about my few milliliters..
That brings another question to mind. How long does NETs last. I emailed a supplyer about that... they have a use by date on the container, but they didn't respond...
By my figuring you must have a few gallons stashed. It's mind boggling to me to even imagine, seeing that i'm faffing about my few milliliters..
That brings another question to mind. How long does NETs last. I emailed a supplyer about that... they have a use by date on the container, but they didn't respond...
Sealed air-tight in glass bottles (minimal head space) and stored at room temperature in a dark place, NETs and extracts can remain viable for years. Some of mine are over three years old and taste better now than when fresh.
I try to maintain a few years worth of extracts and mixed NETs at room temperature. I normally age extracts for many months (sometimes years) before mixing them into NET. Once mixed I allow the NET to age for a few months before using it. Most NET doesn't reach its full flavor potential until it's well aged.
The reason I'm currently producing so much extract is because I'm "experimenting" with cold storage. Sealed air-tight in glass bottles (minimal head space) I'm storing large quantities of concentrated extracts at -20F next to my stockpiled liquid nic. In cold storage, I "believe" extracts will keep for decades although I won't know for sure until many years have passed. I don't recommend anyone else try this unless they're willing to risk a lot of extract on an untested storage method. By the end of this year I'll have produced sufficient quantities of all my favorite extracts to last for decades which at my age is likely a lifetimes supply -I'll be done-. From that point forward the only extractions I'll perform will be sampling "new" tobaccos, the fun stuff. My journey is almost complete, it's been an interesting and enjoyable trip.
I try to maintain a few years worth of extracts and mixed NETs at room temperature. I normally age extracts for many months (sometimes years) before mixing them into NET. Once mixed I allow the NET to age for a few months before using it. Most NET doesn't reach its full flavor potential until it's well aged.
The reason I'm currently producing so much extract is because I'm "experimenting" with cold storage. Sealed air-tight in glass bottles (minimal head space) I'm storing large quantities of concentrated extracts at -20F next to my stockpiled liquid nic. In cold storage, I "believe" extracts will keep for decades although I won't know for sure until many years have passed. I don't recommend anyone else try this unless they're willing to risk a lot of extract on an untested storage method. By the end of this year I'll have produced sufficient quantities of all my favorite extracts to last for decades which at my age is likely a lifetimes supply -I'll be done-. From that point forward the only extractions I'll perform will be sampling "new" tobaccos, the fun stuff. My journey is almost complete, it's been an interesting and enjoyable trip.
I do hope you have a generator if the power goes out.... all that work completed only to have it go warm on ya during an extended power outage
Well, after passively following this Thread from its inception....I FINALLY have some 'moonshine' to play with!!!!
Last week, My Polish son-in-law arrived to '..celebrate Father's Day..' (4 days late but wth!..), My present?..approx. 250ml. of His freshly distilled ' Bemberek' 90 pc.
Yes, We drunk some (!) but I now have a small 5g. of Dunhill's 'Elizabethan Mix' soaking!
How long's recommended for a cold maceration?
Last week, My Polish son-in-law arrived to '..celebrate Father's Day..' (4 days late but wth!..), My present?..approx. 250ml. of His freshly distilled ' Bemberek' 90 pc.
Yes, We drunk some (!) but I now have a small 5g. of Dunhill's 'Elizabethan Mix' soaking!
How long's recommended for a cold maceration?
For cold soaks it's really up to you but room temperature extractions require -significant- time to produce good flavor. Using ethanol as the extraction solvent I've cold soaked tobacco from as little as one week to as much as six months long. What I can say is that the longer you let them steep the better the taste will be (the same holds true when using PG as the extraction solvent). I like a strong, robust extract so for me four months would be the -minimum- steep time, six months produced the best flavor I've achieved from a cold ethanol extraction. Six months is a long time to wait.
Regardless of which extraction method you use (hot, cold or a combination of both) don't forget to freeze filter the extract, helps gets rid of the chlorophyll, waxes, sugars and such, further improving the taste and performance.
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