TX Lawmakers Vote To Ban E-cigarette Sales To Minors...

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nicnik

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They card you for alcohol, and cigarettes. I don't know about movies.

I found some info to help answer my question. The 27yo id requirement is both federal and state. No such federal or sate requirement for alcohol.

Federal:
Tobacco Retailers and the FDA

"Check photo ID of everyone appearing under age 27 who attempts to purchase cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, or smokeless tobacco.
Only sell cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, and smokeless tobacco to anyone age 18 or older. *"

Texas:
TABC Age Verification / Checking IDs

"If the patron is obviously over 21, the establishment may not require any ID at all.

What About Cigarettes?

Unlike alcohol, state and federal law says that anyone under 27 must show identification before purchasing cigarettes."

Now Texas is adding the up to 27yo ID requirement for vaping, even though it's not even required for alcohol sales.

This is clearly bullying of vapers. Shame on the Tobacco Control Industry for turning impressionable lawmakers into adult delinquents.
 

Belushi

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Don't think it should effect the B&M much, so they'll need to ask for ID, I have enough grey to get a pass on that. More worried about buying my juice on the Internet and some vendors not being ready to implement the Adult Verification System checks (e.g. database) and just say no sale to Texans.
 

amoret

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OH MY WORD, this is the kind of thing we need to know. That is going to put a crunch on those who live in more rural areas, especially if they have limited funds. :grr:

So is this law requiring adult verification at the time the order is placed or requiring an adult signature upon deliver?

Edit: or both?

I am not sure of the final wording in Texas, but the one that passed in North Dakota with very similar language requires that the seller verifies through a public database AND requires a copy of photo ID AND has to request and receive written acknowledgement of a statement about how evil vaping is AND requires an age verified delivery. This all needs to be done for each purchase, it can't just be done once to establish that a customer is an adult. I might even agree with some of this if it was only the database OR the photo ID OR age verified delivery and was only required once.

The great majority of North Dakota is rural, with many small towns having no street delivery, and many small town post offices only open a few hours a day. In my current situation I am disabled and someone else picks my mail up for me. When I worked I commuted 60 miles each way and was not in town during the hours the PO was open. This is common in rural areas.

I forgot to mention the part about the child proof bottles. That is fine for those who have children in the house, or who have children who come over. But for older people, and those with arthritis, those caps might be a problem. I have talked about it in another thread though. I like easy to open bottles, because I do have arthritis. (it is not minor either) I hope that vendors will choose bottles that can be converted. If not, I will have to buy more bottles, and switch them out myself. I like easy to squeeze bottles too. That was the least of my worries last night. I sent an email to my House Rep today, thanking him for voting no. Last night I emailed the governor here as well.

Vapero, I already ordered nicotine, for just in case. I already have it!! They aren't banning e juice, at least not yet. But some vendors may not want to be involved with this legislation. So you will possibly have to buy locally in the future. If my favorite vendor will not deal with the red tape, I would understand. I would also be very sad. I will have to wait to hear exactly what the bottom line will be on this.

I started to make my own liquid when my favorite supplier switched to only child resistant bottles. I can't open them at all, which meant I either had to have someone come over and open them for me or I had to cut the top off, so I could transfer the contents to another container - which also removes any label information or warnings. There is no locally available to me. I need to drive at least 60 miles to get to a vape shop. Having lived in southwest Texas once, I assume that the same would apply to many people there. It's not like cigarettes that you can get at any gas station.

I have some nicotine in my freezer, but will now need to buy at least another liter before July 1, something that is going to mess up my budget pretty thoroughly.
 

squee

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More worried about buying my juice on the Internet and some vendors not being ready to implement the Adult Verification System checks (e.g. database) and just say no sale to Texans.
If your preferred juice vendor is not in TX (or ND), then they don't have to implement anything. It only applies to Texas vendors
 
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squee

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So where are they getting the boilerplate for this? The wording here is almost identical to what North Dakota passed for internet purchases, though we also have to have age verified delivery - so $6 per order there. The wording is so close that it must have come frome some common source, and I'd like to know who the source is.

I've been doing a bit of research into your question and this might be the answer:

A Comprehensive Review of State Laws Governing Internet and Other Delivery Sales of Cigarettes in the USA

The development of state cigarette delivery sale laws has emanated from a combination of state laws (discussed in detail in the results section) as well as model legislative provisions developed by diverse organizations such as Philip Morris USA and the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids (CTFK). Philip Morris (PM) developed model legislative language for states to place restrictions on the direct to consumer sale of tobacco products to ensure compliance with applicable laws (Philip Morris USA, 2003). The PM model legislation included requirements for delivery sales-related age verification, disclosure, shipping, registration and reporting, tax collection, penalties, and enforcement (Philip Morris USA, 2003).

Recognizing the areas in which the PM model fell short of sufficiently addressing the concerns associated with the delivery sale of tobacco products, CTFK subsequently developed three comprehensive models for state legislation (Lindblom, 2005a, 2005b, 2005c). Housed within these models were provisions designed to either: (1) restrict Internet and mail order tobacco product sales, (2) prohibit all Internet or mail order sales of tobacco products, or (3) block illegal tobacco product sales to state residents through a delivery list enforcement mechanism (Lindblom, 2005a, 2005b, 2005c). The CTFK models cover the same areas as the PM model, but go a step further to correct what they considered the PM model’s deficiencies. One CTFK model, for example, recommends a ban on shipping and transporting cigarettes directly to consumers, specifies maximum order limits, and includes carrier penalties that are not included in the PM model (Lindblom, 2005a). Other models include provisions such as “do not ship to” list provisions, purchaser penalties, and requirements that sellers provide carriers with proof of licensure (Lindblom, 2005b, 2005c).
 
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Caro123

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sadly the state of Texas has chosen to treat vaping like smoking and though some may disagree I see no concern at all in permitting vaping supplies being purchased by teens in fact I think it would be wisdom to push for no sales to those 13 and under. it has been my experience that many young people begin experimenting with the other product somewhere around the age of puberty. Not selling cigarettes to minors has not stopped one minor from smoking if you don't want vaping to be perceived as smoking it would seem reasonable to not treat it as such I don't think we spend a lot of time worrying about teens drinking a cola nor do I think we should spend a lot of time worrying about them having a vape.
 
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squee

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so, philip morris (the company that is proudly (and legally) killing us since 1957) is making laws against their competition? so they can continue killing us?
No, this language was created to use as a model for use in CIGARETTE online sales transactions, further amended/added to by the TFK group. It's just various states co-opting that same language for use in other things.
 

KattMamma

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I wrote my senator and rep about 97 - no reply from senator, form letter from rep. Both voted for this bill. I'm livid.

I know it won't do any good but I'll write the governor. And I'm sending letters to my senator and rep to tell them I am campaigning for their opponents thanks to them making it harder for adults to have access to life-saving vaping supplies.

I've read this bill recently, but it didn't seem very clear to me on a few points. I'll read it again, but someone above seemed to think it wouldn't affect internet orders from out of state -- that was NOT what I understood, although it would be beneficial if that were true. Can someone else clarify?
 

kkay59

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I cannot clarify KattMamma. I think someone versed in legal jargon would have to tell us for sure. Yes, write the governor. It most likely will not stop this, but you never know. At least we can say we've done all that we could do. I think one reason this stuff gets voted in, is because most people don't know what is going on. Everyone has someone they care about that smokes, or vapes. The media is acting on the money folks behalf. (not us) That is not always the case. They parrot what they are told. I guess investigative reporting is just about dead.
 

Steelgirl

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This new law is for eliquid only ? And how does USPS (or the gov't for that matter) know that I bought eliquid? I mean, does the on line site have to disclose what they are shipping? Most of the packages I receive are just initials (MVS, MFS, etc...) I have all my on line orders delivered to work. Whether vape related or not. I don't trust my mail carrier.. to often I get other peeps mail, so I figure they get mine too.
 

KattMamma

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This new law is for eliquid only ? And how does USPS (or the gov't for that matter) know that I bought eliquid? I mean, does the on line site have to disclose what they are shipping? Most of the packages I receive are just initials (MVS, MFS, etc...) I have all my on line orders delivered to work. Whether vape related or not. I don't trust my mail carrier.. to often I get other peeps mail, so I figure they get mine too.
I don't know how it will play out, but I have some experience with ordering tobacco online...

I started rolling my own cigs when FSC came to TX (whenever that was - 6 yrs ago?) and bought tobacco online.

One thing I learned was that the gov't required delivery services to ensure that the required tobacco taxes were paid, so fedex and ups simply refused to deliver cig tobacco. Guess who delivered the cig tobacco without checking taxes? USPS.

Then new regs were passed and I could no longer get cig tobacco delivered, but I could still get pipe tobacco. The places I bought from sold both, but wouldn't ship the cig tobacco out of their own state. USPS delivered without questioning the contents and I never noticed that a pkg had been opened. I suspect they may have made the shipper declare the contents, but I cannot be sure.
 

Steelgirl

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It's effed up for sure. I've always known Texas was a bit odd. It goes along with the "no alcohol selling on Sunday, and beer only after noon. And there was a time when grocery stores had to tape off any aisles that sold non-food items. How many Texans remember THAT ? I wasn't born here, but been here a very long time. Mid 70s to be exact. Black Market, her we come... just like we predicted it would come to.
 
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