EU UK regulation -- Discussion thread

[westcoast2]

Perfectionist (in italics) asked....
With all they have at stake here, "reclassifying" will most definitely be attempted and most certainly has been planned, at least as a fall-back position if not their primary goal as I suggested - what makes you think this would be impossible to achieve ??

I said they were 'all at sea' not that it would be impossible for them.

The progress, as you call it, has been made on products of negligible commercial value - this will not be the case with E-cigs as they are (imho) an immense and very direct threat ..... or do you disagree ??

My reference to 'progress' was an acknowledgement of the work done by people involved in advocating harm reduction in addition to the work put in by those who advocate on behalf of e-cigarettes. More progress and acceptance would be good, though obviously this hasn't happened yet.

There are many groups who view e-cigarettes as an issue for various reasons. Understanding their concerns and reasons for objecting is important. This facilitates the presention of a persuasive argument that acknowledges, negates or mitigates concerns and objections.

These objections vary and include, competition, legal and health. Finding information in these areas and bringing it to the attention of people who are able to make use of it helps shape the future for the e-cigarette.

The preference will obviously be for Medical Regulation under UK Jurisdiction, as this gives greater scope and control ..... either to (eventually) “ban” by proxy ..... or to effectively hand a monopoly to the Corporations - or do you disagree with this also ??

From the perspective of the UK govt, regulation as a medicine gives greater control.

Unfortunately, precedents have already been set in other countries, and European jurisprudence is notoriously corrupt and convoluted ..... and much more "expensive" to invalidate - I'm sure you won't disagree that "they" have much deeper pockets than "us" .....

Many of the actions taken in other countries do not appear to be 'precedents' in the hard sense. Most are qualified and open to challenge. Your opinion of European jurisprudence doesn't assist in finding a path forward.

Dude, they are coming for us, from every angle possible, using all means necessary ..... if you really do have faith in this errr "public consultation" .....I’d be very curious to know why .....

I stated the current position only, there is a public consultation on the Tobacco directive within the EU.

From a negotiating point of view, the status quo (in the UK) is the starting point.
Understanding the situation in the round is important. 'Faith' has little to do with it.

 

[Perfectionist]

I guess the worst thing about you, Perfectionist, is that you're an insufferable bore. Are you attempting to derail the discussion? I've been following this thread with interest and find your comments irritating in the extreme. Cool your jets, please. Thank you.

Consider me the Devil's Advocate here babe - as I have a low tolerance level for errr insufferable optimism !!

However, there are a couple of simple solutions to your angst, either :-

1) Lighten up !!

2) Put me on your Ignore List - your life will now be complete !!

 

[Perfectionist]

I said they were 'all at sea' not that it would be impossible for them.

My point being, if it is possible, then it will be probable - if or indeed when they feel it is necessary .....

My reference to 'progress' was an acknowledgement of the work done by people involved in advocating harm reduction in addition to the work put in by those who advocate on behalf of e-cigarettes. More progress and acceptance would be good, though obviously this hasn't happened yet.

I agree, but I also see just as much "opposition" building - ultimately, I think what little ground has been gained will be very insidiously lost .....

There are many groups who view e-cigarettes as an issue for various reasons. Understanding their concerns and reasons for objecting is important. This facilitates the presention of a persuasive argument that acknowledges, negates or mitigates concerns and objections.

These objections vary and include, competition, legal and health. Finding information in these areas and bringing it to the attention of people who are able to make use of it helps shape the future for the e-cigarette.

You speak as if we live in a perfect world and are on a level playing field !! There is a covert but very real agenda here my utopian friend !!

E-cigs are being "suppressed" purely to protect Corporate Profits and Government Revenues - which can only ever be resolved by Monopolisation and Taxation ..... or elimination .....

This goes to the heart of what it means to live in a Capitalist society - Money is all that matters, and it always wins !!

Many of the actions taken in other countries do not appear to be 'precedents' in the hard sense. Most are qualified and open to challenge.

Indeed, but as far as I am aware (and please correct me if I'm wrong) none have been (successfully) challenged - this will form a pseudo-standard which most other regulatory bodies will be either directly/indirectly obligated to emulate, or will be gratefully acknowledged and followed to maintain the status-quo .....

Your opinion of European jurisprudence doesn't assist in finding a path forward.

There can only be a path forward, if you feel my opinion of European jurisprudence is highly inaccurate .....

From a negotiating point of view, the status quo (in the UK) is the starting point.

For them, the emergence of E-cigs over the past couple of years, has been a troublesome anomaly - the status-quo, is what they are looking to restore now .....

Understanding the situation in the round is important. 'Faith' has little to do with it.

So, from what you understand ...... do you feel E-ciggers participating in this "consultation" will have any impact - are you confident of seeing any kind of result that would be in our favour ??

 

[Perfectionist]

Still no word on which Legal Firm ECITA has hired - does this "hotshot" Lawyer actually exist or is he just a figment of FreakInDaSheets "hotshot" imagination ??

 

[freakindahouse]

Haven't responded sooner because I've been busy getting on with the job, rather than just talking about it.

ECITA has access to several teams of lawyers. We are fortunate to have had access to the particularly brilliant Mark Davies for the MHRA meeting, and he is still involved in monitoring the situation and will be available if and when we need him again.

So no, he's not just a figment of my imagination. He is very real and very brilliant.

Perhaps, rather than just attacking everyone who is trying to further the ecig cause, you could use your wit and intelligence to help. Just a thought....

Now, if you've no objections, I'll get back to work.

 

[Perfectionist]

Freaky, you came out the closet !! Glad you've stopped playing hide and seek !!

Haven't responded sooner because I've been busy getting on with the job, rather than just talking about it.

You have the time to post trivia elsewhere but were apparently too busy to answer a simple and particularly important question - see, it only took a few seconds out of your terribly busy schedule didn't it babe ..... shame it had to be almost beaten out of you instead of being part and parcel of your approach .....

ECITA has access to several teams of lawyers. We are fortunate to have had access to the particularly brilliant Mark Davies for the MHRA meeting, and he is still involved in monitoring the situation and will be available if and when we need him again.

Mark Davies? Does he work for any of the MC firms because I've never heard of him - what is his background and in what capacity is he involved?

So no, he's not just a figment of my imagination. He is very real and very brilliant.

Brilliant in comparison to who? The opposition?

Time will tell how brilliant he is babe ..... bearing in mind that a genuinely "hotshot" lawyer wouldn't touch E-cigs with a barge-pole ..... and in any case, would be way beyond the affordability of a small organisation like ECITA .....

Perhaps, rather than just attacking everyone who is trying to further the ecig cause, you could use your wit and intelligence to help. Just a thought....

Firstly, how exactly do you think you're "furthering the E-cig cause" and more importantly, what have you "achieved" so far in this goal babe?

Secondly, commenting on your numerous mistakes is not attacking, its constuctive criticism which "should" be welcomed as it keeps you on your toes and motivates you to excel instead of becoming complacent ...... so, despite you feeling otherwise, I'm probably the only cyberdude who is actually helping ....... and far more so than all the unqualified cheerleaders you've no doubt amassed .....

Now, if you've no objections, I'll get back to work.

Excellent, so I take it you've stopped wasting time with that childish interwebz petition and are instead (finally!) liaising with the mighty Tesco ..... what are their thoughts on the issue?

 

[Vocalek]

Consider me the Devil's Advocate here babe - as I have a low tolerance level for errr insufferable optimism !!

However, there are a couple of simple solutions to your angst, either :-

1) Lighten up !!

2) Put me on your Ignore List - your life will now be complete !!

That sounds like a great idea. I have a low tolerance level for insufferable boors.

Here is how to do it:

Click the Settings link above the tabs.
Scroll down until you see "Edit ignore list" in the My Settings box under the "My Account" heading.
Click on "Edit ignore list"
Type an entry in the User Name box and click the Okay button.

 

[rothenbj]

That sounds like a great idea. I have a low tolerance level for insuffarable boors.

Here is how to do it:

Click the Settings link above the tabs.
Scroll down until you see "Edit ignore list" in the My Settings box under the "My Account" heading.
Click on "Edit ignore list"
Type an entry in the User Name box and click the Okay button.

Darn Elaine, they were the EXACT same descriptive words that came to me as I read that post.

 

[BCB]

Thanks for the "how to" Elaine. I didn't know how to do it.

 

[Perfectionist]

That sounds like a great idea. I have a low tolerance level for insufferable boors.

Here is how to do it:

Click the Settings link above the tabs.
Scroll down until you see "Edit ignore list" in the My Settings box under the "My Account" heading.
Click on "Edit ignore list"
Type an entry in the User Name box and click the Okay button.

I'm astonished babe !! Surely you should have put me on Ignore a long time ago ..... the last thing you inconsequential amateurs need is a Qualified Lawyer cramping ya style !!

Still, it's good you gave the rest of the Yanks a step-by-step guide on how to do the necessary ...... seeing as most of your fellow Ivy League Graduates Housewives wouldn't have been able to figure it out for themselves !!

Anyhoozle, keep up the good work old gal, I'm sure that posting a comment on every interwebz article you come across will change the world ...... go get em Tiger !!