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UK regulation of eliquid

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by Kate, Dec 18, 2008.

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  1. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    The Totally Wicked website is showing this message:

    POISONS ACT 1972

    It has been brought to our attention by the Trading Standards service that nicotine sold in liquid form should not be more than 7.5% weight in weight. As a precaution, we have removed our fluids with nicotine, the 36MG, 24MG, 18MG, 11MG and 8MG ranges, until we have been able to have these tested and they comply with the standards set out.
    If you wish to read more about this then please follow the following link : *****************************************************

    It looks like UK authorities are starting to clamp down on nicotine liquid, this might be a good time to stock up from the sellers who are still trading.
  2. MrFog

    MrFog Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2008
    Midlands UK
    That's just great, here we go.

    Kate, what does it mean; weight by weight ?
  3. CaSHMeRe

    CaSHMeRe Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2008
    o man ... and here we thought the cartridges were the main issue! good luck pill (and the rest of UK suppliers)
  4. efaglil

    efaglil Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 18, 2008
    I can't find any definition of weight in weight, presumably it's a ratio of 7.5% of whatever the weight.

    Why Devon CC? Any idea?
  5. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    It sounds like 7.5% of the weight of the liquid can be nicotine. We buy it in mg of nic per ml of liquid, a ml is approximately the same as a mg so it's possibly 7.5% of a mg.

    7.5% = ???

    I don't know, I'm rubbish at maths ...
  6. clavit

    clavit Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 18, 2008
    I'm wondering how this can be a problem.
    I have no idea what our liquids weigh, but in comparison water is 1000mg per ml.
    The x-high strength Wicked is 36mg/ml, so if the liquid weighs in anywhere near water, that should work out to 3.6%.
    Is it simply a question of lab testing and documentation? In that case, it shouldn't be too much of a problem...
  7. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
  8. Shamus101

    Shamus101 Full Member

    Nov 30, 2008
    Bristol, UK
    I went online to buy some for christmas and found the same notice.

    Other suppliers are still selling e-liquid, so I don't know what exactly is happening.

    Maybe Jason is being super carefull, or something nasty and bureacratic is coming round the corner. I hope not coz I'd hate having to go back to analogues. I haven't bought any since I got my super mini....

    If anyone knows whats happening please share...

  9. thegodfather

    thegodfather New Member

    Nov 22, 2008
    This indeed bad news, can anyone get in touch with Jason to find out whats happening?
  10. CaSHMeRe

    CaSHMeRe Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jun 12, 2008
    he's already staring at this thread bud ... i'm sure he will post very very shortly. FYI ... His username is pillbox38!

    i too am eager to see the status/issues :)
  11. pillbox38

    pillbox38 Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2008
    Lancashire. England
    Not super careful but seriously encouraged to comply, also if i dont childproof and chip comply my kits and cartridges im out of business.. The fist of trading standards is about to rain down on UK sellers.

    By monday my kits will be compliant, fluid it is impossible for me to action this till i get an accurate analysis...

    Basically the fluids need to be tested to ensure that they do not fall under the remit of the "Poisons Act" I was unaware of this potential obstacle untill monday when Trading Standards highlighted it to me. In Essence a substance classified as a poison needs to be handled and sold in a more robust manner. IE, from a locked cabinet and an entry made in a poisons book after every sale. This then makes web sales of poisons illegal.

    In the case of nicotine, if a fluid carries more than 7.5% weight in a given soloution, it then falls under this act. Do my Fluids?? Well the truthful answer is i dont know, therefore it is i feel prudent to find out.

    In the interim i would be showing a serious case of bad judgement if i didnt withdraw them from sale. Yes its hurting my business but its better than hurting a child. Secondly once i know which fluids can be sold outside the poisons act, these will need Childproofing and correctly labelling with all relevant CHIP hazard warnings and tactile labels.

    I am preparing for this and when i know what strength of fluids can be sold,i will bottle and label so they comply with the UK and EEC directives. Additionally all my cartridges will now come in childproof containers with a similar labelling and warning structure as i mentioned above for my fluids.

  12. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    Good luck with it, I hope this gets sorted soon.
  13. pillbox38

    pillbox38 Forum Supplier ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2008
    Lancashire. England
  14. Chrissie

    Chrissie Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I also hope this gets sorted very soon, not just for the buyers but for you as well (((((Pillbox)))))) .
  15. notsmellyanymore

    notsmellyanymore Full Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 14, 2008
    Yorkshire UK

    I have had a chat with my wife about this, she is an industrial chemist working in the oil industry, with over 35 years experience. The sums, if not the product, are the same. Thought this might help and if you want to clarify anything I am sure she will explain it.

    To simplify things she worked to a SG of 1 for both PG & Liquid Nicotine.
    She also said that it is very likely the nicotine would be a tincture (solution in alcohol) so very unlikely to be 100% pure nicotine liquid that is used in the liquid mix. For the sake of the sums we are using a theoretical mix of just PG & pure liquid nicotine.

    7.5% nicotine - weight in solution of PG, total of 30 ml liquid = 2.25 g of nicotine. In 10ml it would be 0.75g...and so on.

    On my TW 30ml bottle of juice, it states "30ml - Medium Strength - 11mg" - this equates to 0.03666% weight in solution in a 30ml bottle.

    1mg is 1,000th of a gram. Eg: 1mg of water = 1,000th of a ml.
  16. RjG

    RjG Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 16, 2008
    Edmonton AB Canada
    ugh, thanks for posting that, but how about a summary that's a bit easier to read? ;-)

    so 36mg Wicked = 36mg/ml = 36/1000 = 3.6% then? Which would NOT fall under the UK poisons act, it would appear.
  17. Grumpysanta

    Grumpysanta Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 8, 2008
    Essex, England
    The bit that worries me is when you say selling over the internet could be illegal. I recon from your point of view labels and packaging probably is not much of a problem but locked cabinets, logs and the possible illegal internet sale is a real problem, in essence if this is the case , how do we buy Totally Wicked in the future?
  18. RjG

    RjG Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 16, 2008
    Edmonton AB Canada
    If it doesn't fall under the act, it wouldn't matter anymore, would it?
  19. deewal

    deewal Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 30, 2008
    In a house.
    So sorry about your problems pillbox. These little Hitler's really are pain.
    I hope you get it sorted out soon but i believe your quite right in the way your going about things. Thanks for sending me my little glass tube btw.
    I would just like to say your Wicked Apple Liquid is the best Vape i have had and if there is anything at all that I and all the other members can do in support of you i'm sure all you have to do is ask. Petitions, letters from Doctor's etc. My Docter is very pleased with my BP as it's down for the third month in succession :thumb: but he's refusing to prescribe Champix? i think that's what it's called and that's quite legal but he says it's useless and harmful.8-o
  20. Grumpysanta

    Grumpysanta Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 8, 2008
    Essex, England
    Lets hope for all our sakes it doesn't
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