UK regulation of eliquid

[Duncan]

Getting back to the original point of this thread:

Cambridge News Online has an article that hits at the heart of the dangers facing the e-cig in the UK. It’s about a landlord in Cambridge UK who has introduced the Mini into his public house. This is the tail-end of the article:-

Jason Cropper, managing director of theelectroniccigarette.co.uk, which imports the kits from China, admitted no clinical trials had been done to assess possible adverse health effects of the devices.

A spokesman for the Department of Health told the News: "Electronic cigarettes appear to be borderline products when considering compliance with the smoke-free law. They heat nicotine inserts using a microchip charging device, and therefore technically they are not 'lit'. However, most of these products seem to contain traces of tobacco.

"We have identified at least a dozen different brands of electronic cigarettes. All are different in composition and emissions. No such products have been approved for sale in the UK.

"We are currently obtaining information on ingredients and emissions of e-cigarettes from manufacturers and importers."
The full article can be seen here:
www dot cambridge-news dot co dot uk/cn_news_home/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=380409

If we aren’t careful, we’re going to have them walking all over us. Is there any way we can organise ourselves into a body that can lobby the various departments?

The alternative is to let the politically-correct (by whose politics, and who says they are correct?) nanny-state bureaucrats ban an extremely desirable smoking alternative.

I’m a totally non-violent person, but I want to go to London and start hitting people. If I’m deprived of my nicotine I may not be able to control this urge.

 

[TropicalBob]

Exactly what part of those statements would you counter with fact or common sense disagreement? Your government would be remiss if it did not try to protect its citizens from unscrupulous marketing of dangerous, flawed or misrepresented products (you have all of those with e-devices).

E-smoking will be approved only if it can be scientifically show to be both safe and effective as either NRT or an alternative that doesn't need regulation. Neither has been shown so far. And too few researchers are working to prove e-devices are viable products.

 

[solution42]

I'm starting to think the strongest candidate for e-smoking's survival is going to be big tobacco jumping onboard to reap some divvy's, they can argue all day long that they are providing a safer alternative to what they already provide. They then cut a few of their low selling brands out in the pretence of a trade off or something similar to that.

 

[alltah]

Hi Guys for some reason i can not start a new thread but this seems as good a place as any to post this information. As i am supplying pv's around the pubs and bars in the area i live.(Eastbourne Area UK) I asked our local council what thier stand point on the issue is, and this is the info i was sent:


Hi Tim

I apologise for not contacting you earlier.

The information is as follows


The Use of Electronic Cigarettes and The Health Act 2006

The law associated with the acceptability of electronic cigarettes is far from clear, both from a legal viewpoint in terms of their use in a smokefree place, and in terms of the general safety of the products.

We are aware that investigation into the safety of their use is currently underway and results of sampling have not yet been released. It appears on the surface that the use of these cigarettes goes against the spirit of the law and it may be that it goes against the actual word of law.

We cannot provide a conclusive decision on their legal status at the current time. However, if it is decided that their use is illegal and you use one of the products, or allow the use of the products, in an enclosed public place, a workplace, or in a public or work vehicle, it would be at your own risk.

More information will be provided when we have received definitive guidance on this issue. This will then enable you to make a more informed decision on their use.

As it says we will update with further information as it becomes available.


I hope this is helpful

Gail Fenn
Regulation Adviser

 

[OutWest]

if their stance is that glycerine exhaled into the air is dangerous, they had better ban the use of asthma inhalers in indoor spaces.

 

[Denni]

Hi Alltah!

You can post new threads after you've amassed 15 posts

How can vaping go against the 'spirit of the law' if said spirit is the protection of workers and non-smokers from second-hand smoke?

It may be of interest that the Isle of Man has explicitly permitted the use of e-cigs indoors, as long as they are black with a blue LED so that they can definitely not be mistaken for the real thing.

 

[smiler900]

I'm thinking of supplying pubs. Whats the legal stance on these, ie are they legal to sell untill te gov. notify otherwise?

 

[TropicalBob]

The Isle of Man acceptance is the work of Pillbox, as I recall. And great work it was.

A supplier should ask authorities what WOULD be approved -- and then supply it. Don't sell something that looks like a cigarette being smoked and then expect to meet "the spirit of the law." The spirit is about banning smoking. Period.

Kudos to at least one supplier who did it right. Now if more would seek proper approval through proper channels, without lies and deceptions, this practice might gain legitimacy.

 

[alltah]

I agree re the colour of the led I only supply blue leds to my customers and on the whole it’s really down to the publican or bar owner as to whether they allow the use and sale of PV’s in their premises. I market it as a personal vaporizer. I had trading standards take a look at the packaging etc and there is no problem there

Bob i did ask my local council what would be approved however they seem only able to pigoen hole the pv as some sort of cigarete as there is no other catagory it fits in under current law

 

[Smo]

Dang, you guys scared the s*it out of me! When i miss a thread, i use to read it from the very beginning, and kate up there gave me goosebumps!

Props to TW, they have always been ahead of time in this market.

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

I've always hated the phrase 'spirit of the law'. What it should be is 'we didn't allow for ingenuity so we'll try and screw up your work-around with our original legislation.'

But if there was such a thing as the spirit of this law I thought it was to protect third parties from second hand smoke. The respondent to Alltah's mail is quite revealing of official attitudes, however, (inadvertently so, methinks). As stated many times, this is about control, not safety. Clouds of vapour will never be accepted in public places. The disapprovers hate being balked, and we are definitely balking them by sitting in a bar appearing to smoke.

Incidentally (spiritadalaw-wise), I saw the same thing with rail travel here in the UK - smoking banned on all rail property including open platforms, even though the law was specifically concerned with enclosed spaces.

Irritating.

 

[rustylug]

Hey Rusty, it was fab to meet you today.

For any of the doubters out there, you know who you are , I turned up at Rusty's stall whilst he was explaining the e-cig to a group of young guys who were interested in it - they seemed quite taken by it, hopefully they'll be making a purchase soon.

Anyway, Rusty didn't know me from Adam, so I just looked like another curious buyer, so it was easy for me to listen in to the information he was giving.

At no point did he refer to e-smoking as an NRT. He actually mentioned that he still has a couple of fags in the morning with his coffee etc and that he didn't actually advise people to look at it as a miracle 'give up smoking' device (or words to that effect lol).

He not only advised [potential] customers of the TS report right from the start, explaining why he could only sell starter kits with 0 Nic carts at the moment and what was being done to rectify this (i.e. child-proof carts), he also had a copy of the TS report in full view for all to read.

He also gave a demonstration of vaping his own e-cig, and had a sign inviting people to have a trial if they wanted.

Best of all; he wasn't being pushy and using the 'sales patter' to force this on anyone. He gave his information and allowed people to walk away, if need be, and decide for themselves if they wanted to later buy it or not.

Not at all like the Del Boy image some would like to paint of Rusty, the dodgy market stall seller trading from the back of a suitcase etc.

I did feel quite bad listening in without him knowing who I was. It was as though I was almost spying on him (I'd never get a job in Trading Standards lol) but it was just by chance that I arrived as he was talking to those young guys and I could hardly .... in and tell him who I was.

Rusty, it's great to see the e-cig being showcased in the public domain, and not just reserved for us luckily enough to have found this online community. You did us all proud.

p.s. don't be surprised if you get another visit from my Mum soon, she has her eye on one of the dream catchers you sell - will she be entitled to a 'mates rates' discount (j/k)?

A'ra best


Lou x

ETA: We were only there for a few minutes but it was great to see the amount of interest, in the e-cig, there was in that short time. It looks like the Press report has done us all a favour. ;-)

Thanks for that quote and hope you come buy again soon ....Ps ..will give mates rates for your mum hahahaha

 

[julliefishes]

I've always hated the phrase 'spirit of the law'. What it should be is 'we didn't allow for ingenuity so we'll try and screw up your work-around with our original legislation.'

But if there was such a thing as the spirit of this law I thought it was to protect third parties from second hand smoke. The respondent to Alltah's mail is quite revealing of official attitudes, however, (inadvertently so, methinks). As stated many times, this is about control, not safety. Clouds of vapour will never be accepted in public places. The disapprovers hate being balked, and we are definitely balking them by sitting in a bar appearing to smoke.

Incidentally (spiritadalaw-wise), I saw the same thing with rail travel here in the UK - smoking banned on all rail property including open platforms, even though the law was specifically concerned with enclosed spaces.

Irritating.

TheEmperorOfIceCream, I totally concur with your statement, The same practices have occurred here in Canada. Being a baby boomer, I have found the erosion of our freedoms over the past few decades extremely frightening. The essense of "Spirit of the Law", deeply disturbs me.

 

[Toby]

Anyone heard of Bitrex - that stuff they put in cleaning products etc. to stop kids taking a sip - well e-liquid sure doesn't need that!
Anyone willing to experiment....?

 

[TropicalBob]

Many poisonous materials have "nasty" smelling or tasting stuff added to them, to prevent children from ingesting them. Can't do that with e-liquid. The entire purpose of e-liquid to taste good on inhalation, so it must smell inviting even when in liquid form.

Adding anything to make it unpalatable would ruin its very reason to exist.

 

[trog100]

dunno what liquid you use bob but the stuff I use tastes f-cking foul.. i cant say as it smells that nice either..

trog

 

[L E Jay]

Did anyone actually decide anything about the cartridges, as obviously they are being sold as packaged.

 

[Effex]

It really does depend on the liquid, Trog.

For example, I would normally get the tobacco stuff from JC in my mouth from topping off and that would taste like crap.

On the flipside, I JUST got my vapornine radbull and pepsi in the mail, and out of curiosity, dripped a small drop on my fingertip to taste, and well.. Let's just say that a child would find this stuff a lot more welcoming than some other flavors.

 

[Caesarea]

Sweet and sour experience, this is:
No intention of giving up, oh no, just trying a cheap solution.
Sat 7 March e-cig arrived.
Sun 8 March, analogs stay in their packet. Thurs 12 March, tar free, cough free, happy as a lark, budget problems solved and can also smell the daffodils.
Fri 13 March, read of possible ban on the UK side of pond. Totally downcast. I don't want to smoke packeted fags again.
Why is British society so DUMB?
Best to all.

 

[Keef]

Did anyone actually decide anything about the cartridges, as obviously they are being sold as packaged.

pillbox - Jason is now putting his pre-filled cartridges in a child proof bottle .

I imagine very shortly all sellers will be doing this.