Updated!! Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

[Katmar]

So what Role should B&M and Online Retailers be playing in this?

A Forum like this Isn't going to reach many Vapers. But B&M's and Online Retailer can Reach just about All Vaper's.

What did their Involvement Look Like ?

Did the state send out a notice to all these retailers, detailing the legislation? I don't think so, Zoid. Especially the B & Ms. They all act clueless when I've spoken to them. And, again, not ALL online retailers belong to a forum. So, how are they to know that the state budget has thrown this godawful tax law into it? Even most of the forums are uninformed about this, or just don't care. ECF is the ONLY one I've seen that has been at the forefront of all these battles.

 

[VNeil]

Nothing like posting a new Call to Action on ECF after we lost the PA vapor tax battle.

Seems like most vapers don't give a damn about vapor taxes until after they are enacted into law.

I have to ask why you think a few hundred more vapers emailing nasty grams would have mattered? I recently read your epic battle to get 3 minutes in front of "them" while they take a mental potty break. And you are a card carrying member of tobacco Control.

 

[zoiDman]

Did the state send out a notice to all these retailers, detailing the legislation? I don't think so, Zoid. Especially the B & Ms. They all act clueless when I've spoken to them. And, again, not ALL online retailers belong to a forum. So, how are they to know that the state budget has thrown this godawful tax law into it? Even most of the forums are uninformed about this, or just don't care. ECF is the ONLY one I've seen that has been at the forefront of all these battles.

Do PA Retailers not have Access to the Internet or something? If you are Running a e-Cigarette Business, don't you think it might be in your Best Interest to see if there are any Pending State or Federal Regulations that might Impact your Business?

The Reason I ask is I walk into B&M's in my area. There aren't any Vote No on Prop 56 Signs on the walls. And CA Prop 56 has the Penitential to make PA's tax seem Tame. And I don't see Anything from Online Retailers.

And California doesn't seem to be the Exception to the Rule.

It's easy to Say that PA Vaper's didn't do enough to stop this Tax from happening. But is that who should Bear the Blame if Blame is to be Handed Out?

Just Me, but I find it Kinda Hard to Blame anyone if they Don't Know what is Going On.

When I go into a California B&M, or go to a California Based e-liquid company and there is Zero Information about Prop 56, am I going to Blame Vaper's. No. I am Not.

But I am going to Call into Question whether or Not CA B&M's and Online Retailers could have done More?

 

[Katmar]

Do PA Retailers not have Access to the Internet or something? If you are Running a e-Cigarette Business, don't you think it might be in your Best Interest to see if there are any Pending State or Federal Regulations that might Impact your Business?

The Reason I ask is I walk into B&M's in my area. There aren't any Vote No on Prop 56 Signs on the walls. And CA Prop 56 has the Penitential to make PA's tax seem Tame. And I don't see Anything from Online Retailers.

And California doesn't seem to be the Exception to the Rule.

It's easy to Say that PA Vaper's didn't do enough to stop this Tax from happening. But is that who should Bear the Blame if Blame is to be Handed Out?

Just Me, but I find it Kinda Hard to Blame anyone if they Don't Know what is Going On.

When I go into a California B&M, or go to a California Based e-liquid company and there is Zero Information about Prop 56, am I going to Blame Vaper's. No. I am Not.

But I am going to Call into Question whether or Not CA B&M's and Online Retailers could have done More?

You have a good point, Zoid. YES, any business should be aware of pending law that may affect them. I stand corrected on that one.

However, I don't think the average vaper knows what is going on until after it happens. That is sad and discouraging.

 

[Lessifer]

You have a good point, Zoid. YES, any business should be aware of pending law that may affect them. I stand corrected on that one.

However, I don't think the average vaper knows what is going on until after it happens. That is sad and discouraging.

Put those two thoughts(sentences) together and I think you'll see why some of us consumers are a bit touchy when it's implied that we haven't done enough.

 

[Katmar]

Put those two thoughts(sentences) together and I think you'll see why some of us consumers are a bit touchy when it's implied that we haven't done enough.

Totally agree, Lessifer....

 

[zoiDman]

You have a good point, Zoid. YES, any business should be aware of pending law that may affect them. I stand corrected on that one.

However, I don't think the average vaper knows what is going on until after it happens. That is sad and discouraging.

Hey No Problem Kat.

And you are Absolutely Right. The Vast Majority of Vaper's Don't Know what is Going On.

Retailers could Change that. If they Wanted to. But it Doesn't appear that Most Want To.

 

[mostlyclassics]

It seems to be a popular sport to pick on Pennsylvania Republicans for this tax. Then, all too many people make this erroneous extrapolation: if Pennsylvania Republicans voted for this, all Republicans nationwide are equally monstrous.

But the "Republican" tent covers a particularly broad part of the political spectrum.

For instance, Nelson Rockefeller (governor of New York and Gerald Ford's VP) was a Republican, and he was considerably to the left of, say, Martin O'Malley (immediate past Democratic governor of Maryland). IMO, both used the leftist Big Government paradigm to totally hose their states. I see very little difference between them.

And on the far right, there's Barry Goldwater (R Senator of Arizona) and Ted Cruz (R Senator of Texas). Both of them were/are profoundly conservative, far on the right of the political spectrum, and both card-carrying Republicans.

About all you can generalize about Republicans is that the farther east and north you go, the farther to the center and left part of the political spectrum those Republicans inhabit. And there are a ton of exceptions to that generalization.

 

[Rossum]

It seems to be a popular sport to pick on Pennsylvania Republicans for this tax. Then, all too many people make this erroneous extrapolation: if Pennsylvania Republicans voted for this, all Republicans nationwide are equally monstrous.

But the "Republican" tent covers a particularly broad part of the political spectrum.

For instance, Nelson Rockefeller (governor of New York and Gerald Ford's VP) was a Republican, and he was considerably to the left of, say, Martin O'Malley (immediate past Democratic governor of Maryland). IMO, both used the leftist Big Government paradigm to totally hose their states. I see very little difference between them.

And on the far right, there's Barry Goldwater (R Senator of Arizona) and Ted Cruz (R Senator of Texas). Both of them were/are profoundly conservative, far on the right of the political spectrum, and both card-carrying Republicans.

About all you can generalize about Republicans is that the farther east and north you go, the farther to the center and left part of the political spectrum those Republicans inhabit. And there are a ton of exceptions to that generalization.

TLDR; Statists gonna state.

 

[WharfRat1976]

Politicians have been known to be disingenuous on occasion. $13 million is a whopping four one hundredths of one percent of the Commonwealth's budget. Put it in some more perspective, it's about 5.5% of my local school district's budget. Anyway, I do not believe that raising $13 million is what they set out to accomplish with this tax.

So, is there a grassy knoll involved here Ross? Maybe it is BT and BP.....

 

[Verb]

So, is there a grassy knoll involved here Ross? Maybe it is BT and BP.....

The math is funky. If 2.5% of PA's population is a regular vaper, they only expect each to pay $40 per year on average.

 

[VNeil]

The math is funky. If 2.5% of PA's population is a regular vaper, they only expect each to pay $40 per year on average.

Perhaps they never expect to collect that tax? They would rather bury the threat to their tobacco tax pickpocket scam. The vape tax is only 2% of the tax increase they imposed with their $600M cig tax increase. It is a pittance. Meaningless. But every smoker that buys a vape is a threat to that pickpocket ponzi scheme.

 

[stanleybb50]

I used the form and actually got a response from Rick Saccone stating he was with me and agrees, and urged me to vote that we need folks in the House and Senate who support vaping.

I was impressed with his speedy response!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[r77r7r]

Anyone want to discuss "ideas" on the PA forum? I'm looking into vaping loose leaf tobacco myself.

 

[gandymarsh]

Not specific to PA but interesting.

 

[sofarsogood]

I didn't read the entire thread. Tobacco retailers have to pay the cigarette tax before they sell the product. The product never changes. They know what will sell. If vape shops have to pay 40% more for everything before the product sells that's pretty much the kiss of death for most speciality vape shops. I wouldn't take that risk with vape products. The legislators know this.

 

[Princess Zelda]

Regarding when most retailers would find out about this law, honestly most probably would when they have to do their taxes. I would venture to say that anyone with any amount of business sense will hire someone to do their taxes. The problem is that this law suddenly goes into effect at a really weird time that has nothing to do with either the new year or upon the beginnings of a new tax season.

Usually the IRS is willing to work with people regarding payment plans to pay taxes, so even if a lump sum is due the day this tax goes into effect, some businesses might be able to make it. The IRS is more concerned about just collecting money, not so much demonically trying to put someone out of business and collecting nothing.

I don't know how vastly different pricing is in store versus online (new vaper), but one of my friends who is a serious vaper says he's generally fine with paying more at a shop because of the convenience factor and getting the product immediately. Once PA stores have to cover both the cost of rent of this shop AND the monstrous task, it seems like it would be impossible to compete if the product suddenly costs a hell of a lot more than it did mere weeks before.

 

[Lessifer]

Regarding when most retailers would find out about this law, honestly most probably would when they have to do their taxes. I would venture to say that anyone with any amount of business sense will hire someone to do their taxes. The problem is that this law suddenly goes into effect at a really weird time that has nothing to do with either the new year or upon the beginnings of a new tax season.

Usually the IRS is willing to work with people regarding payment plans to pay taxes, so even if a lump sum is due the day this tax goes into effect, some businesses might be able to make it. The IRS is more concerned about just collecting money, not so much demonically trying to put someone out of business and collecting nothing.

I don't know how vastly different pricing is in store versus online (new vaper), but one of my friends who is a serious vaper says he's generally fine with paying more at a shop because of the convenience factor and getting the product immediately. Once PA stores have to cover both the cost of rent of this shop AND the monstrous task, it seems like it would be impossible to compete if the product suddenly costs a hell of a lot more than it did mere weeks before.

The IRS is federal, this would be due to the state tax board and I believe is due monthly, at least it is for consumers who make purchases outside of the state. As for not finding out about this until it's time to pay the tax, if any vendor of vapor products is not doing their absolute best to keep informed about any and all regulations both federal and local, I can't possibly understand the reasoning. Vaping is under attack, from all sides.

 

[kalijennifer]

i new user hay all friends

 

[Tarener0421]

Please all PA VAPERS...sign this petition!!!Not sure if this was already put out there but posting anyway. They still need 300-400 signatures. I have been smoke free for two months
PA House of Representatives: Amend PA HB 1198 - 40% Vape Tax