US House Appropriations Cmte bill would prevent FDA from banning e-cigs now on the market

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DC2

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I don't accept the excuse that they're idiots. They know what they're doing, as far as what their concerns are (money). They like to think the idiots are the public.
They certainly know what they are doing.

And the public falls for it hook, line, and sinker.
But are the public idiots?

I don't know.
Are brainwashed people idiots?

I guess that's the question.
 

nicnik

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They certainly know what they are doing.

And the public falls for it hook, line, and sinker.
But are the public idiots?

I don't know.
Are brainwashed people idiots?

I guess that's the question.

The public is increasingly too busy to fend off brainwashing. Pay them to investigate vaping science for themselves, and they'd be looking a lot smarter.
 
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caramel

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Dec 23, 2014
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They certainly know what they are doing.

And the public falls for it hook, line, and sinker.
But are the public idiots?

I don't know.
Are brainwashed people idiots?

I guess that's the question.

I guess they're not idiots either. Just self interested parties. "I don't have any use for this thing vaping, let's just ban it so I don't get inconvenienced by it sometime later".
 

Endor

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I remember back when I used to do that.
But then my brain broke from hitting it on all those brick walls.

That's why we need new blood.
With new brains not yet bashed in and leaking all over.
:laugh:
Been checking back off and on, and of course see the post "Nicotine kills 480,000 people a year [Source:CDC]", followed by "Vote Democratic."

Really? Is it too hard to read your source before you post it? Smoking deaths != nicotine deaths.

And don't even get me started on the second line. I've learned my lesson on that, but did give me an insight as to this person's political leanings (as if I didn't know that already).

DC2, I have a headache coming on...
 

Kent C

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The anecdote to brainwashing is logic. Logic is not taught in schools anymore. Brainwashing is taught.

Logical reasoning comes in two categories - deductive and inductive. There are logical fallacies for each type. A good 'game' for kids (it was for me :- ) is to teach them the difference between deduction and induction and the the logical fallacies associated with each:

Logical Fallacies
(there may be better sources but this one is fine for illustration)

Take each fallacy (in the right frame of the site above) - say the 'ad hominem' fallacy and have them find examples in newspapers, online or otherwise, ads on TV, news channels, forums (lol), etc. Then go to the next one 'bandwagon' and do the same, rinse and repeat. ;)

Caution!! If you do this with your own kid, careful with the 'Because I said so!' "argument" :lol:
 

Kent C

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I'm not sure that all teachers fully understand what's going on.....

If they are already brainwashed, then true, but they further that through their own teachings. Most of the brainwashing is done through the texts and curricula - then sometimes teachers help out as well.

That said, some do know, and are all in on the ruse.
 

Robino1

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If they are already brainwashed, then true, but they further that through their own teachings. Most of the brainwashing is done through the texts and curricula - then sometimes teachers help out as well.

That said, some do know, and are all in on the ruse.
I have to interject here. There are many teachers in my Husband's family. They are directed what to teach by the administrators. If the teachers try to buck the system, they eventually lose their jobs. The 'no child left behind' debacle was not embraced by any of the teachers. They had to follow the curriculum that was forced on them.

Look to the administrators, not the teachers. Oh, and that all comes down to all mighty funding dollar too. The admins don't want to lose the government funding so they do what the government asks.

And around and around we go.

I just didn't want the teachers to be fully blamed for what is taking place in our schools. It is political even there.
 

Kent C

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I have to interject here. There are many teachers in my Husband's family. They are directed what to teach by the administrators. If the teachers try to buck the system, they eventually lose their jobs. The 'no child left behind' debacle was not embraced by any of the teachers. They had to follow the curriculum that was forced on them.

Look to the administrators, not the teachers. Oh, and that all comes down to all mighty funding dollar too. The admins don't want to lose the government funding so they do what the government asks.

And around and around we go.

I just didn't want the teachers to be fully blamed for what is taking place in our schools. It is political even there.

Hence the "brainwashing is done through the texts and curricula". There is always a political tension created by, on the one side - testing at the state or national level - which most teachers abhor - and which many parents like. The criticism is that 'now they only "teach the test" ...is answered by some - "At least they are learning something!" :) On the other side is the text and curricula - actual content where many teachers agree but 1/2 of the parents don't - that's the propaganda part, in the eyes of many.

The original point is that neither the testing nor the curricula teach logic - which could actually differentiate between what is important to know (the goal of testing) and propaganda and fact (the ideal goal of the curricula).

All that said, if a company, for example, was producing overtly bad products, and the employees were aware of that, at what point, would the employees either demand change or just quit? I think, if they continue to work, they are just as responsible. Many teachers have quit the government school system and have went to work for private schools or private charter schools as a direct result of observing this path and making a decision not to further it. To excuse teachers would be similar to excusing Mitch Zeller or Tom Frieden for the intentions and policies of the Obama Administration (or in earlier times, the Bush Administration).

edit: I should also say that there are some great teachers in the public schools system - we have several that post here - Sun, for one - and they do what they can with what they have.
I had one great one and about three very good ones in my public schooling. And there were some that shouldn't be near children.
 
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Marc411

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It looks like a great step in the right direction.

After reading the article one of the smartest things all liquid manufacturers could do is change their labeling (if they already haven't) away from catoons. That would remove one of the biggest arguments from every politicians book of BS. Take away the "that appear to be targeted to children" lie they continue to use to support regulation.
 
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