Vape shops closing .....a tribute to our Vendors
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I haven't had Torque56 in a LONG time. It was the most like a cigarette I ever vaped. It was like standing in the break area smoking a cigarette.
FDAmerica. A land fit for billionaires and corporations. With the best politicians and Agencies money can buy.
Sure, hobbyists will continue to be able to make mods, but I do not think the market for DIY mod parts will be big enough to keep a vendor like Evolv in business.
There are other reasons why I think Evolv has a chance to survive all this, but getting into that seems only off topic in a thread about shops closing.
Hobbyists in the US would be a secondary market for them. They're not about to loose out on their international sales, and raw chip sales outside of the US is outside of FDA regulations.
But they could still have a lucrative market to hobbyists in the US. Do a search for gun stock blanks sometime. Never underestimate the size of a potential DIY market.
I am starting to see more and more vape shops for sale in the Toronto area or sad classified ads like the below. We have no FDA here and our govt hasn't even started to enact crippling legislation and/or taxation.
More to come? I hate to say it, but I think a huge North American consolidation is on the horizon....
Selling off stock | business, industrial | City of Toronto | Kijiji
More to come? I hate to say it, but I think a huge North American consolidation is on the horizon....
Selling off stock | business, industrial | City of Toronto | Kijiji
Consolidation, how? It's all just going to vanish one by one right in front of our eyes. I don't think I'll be hanging around much when the dominoes start really falling, I'd rather live in my own little world doing what I do and just trying to be happy...
That is a lot of stock for sale. Sorry it is hitting Canada too.
There are some "bigger" companies that have prepared to last out the next two years(unless there are more surprises), after that though, you're right. Consolidation won't save anything, it's going to be the last few standing, basically nothing that any of us here use. Unless we can change it.
We are going to need a hell of a lot more support than we currently have to even be a little successful moving forward. The current paradigm has vapers in lockstep with smokers, and the social pogrom against the smokers is getting on into the anti's final steps of the their agenda of stigmatization.
We have a very serious image problem, and the industry has been one of the most damaging influences to that image. For that, I have no sympathy to the industry as an entity. I mourn the lack of common sense and reason that seems to exist in our current social and political climate, where it's OK to crush that which we do not understand or appreciate. This vaping phenomena is truly a societal and medical miracle, and to see it treated as a pariah and a menace is truly heart breaking to me. Trying to get people I know and love to understand it, has been personally frustrating, and sometimes even met with derision. The Salem witch trials come to mind when I ponder this stuff, and the mental image of a pack of monkeys, sitting on a pile of dynamite, playing with matches...
There will still be B&Ms around in the coming years, just substantially less.
They folks who invested $5-10k, bought a $100 display case and found a 500sq/ft storefront for $500-1000 a month will almost all be gone IMO. There are a few in my general area that will likely survive due to their size, customer base, vendor relationships and business acumen.
The whole industry won't shut down.... likely just most of it.
The best way to document the shop closings is take a photo of the front of the shop and post it here. A big montage of those would be dramatic and on point.
Shops that might have opened don't because of increased business risk. Shops that are struggling close because the owner doesn't want to invest more money because of regulatory uncertainty. Most walk in retail is suffering anyway because mail order has learned how to be far far more efficient while walk in has not. Part of the natural progression for vapers is DIY and rebuilding. If you do those and buy only what you need your economic impact on the vaping "industry" becomes trivial, impossible to measure.
I stopped visiting my local vape speciality shops because I don't like the advice I hear given to the few beginners who walk in and I can't find anything to buy, mostly because there is nothing I need to buy and partly because their products are geared toward the cloud crowd and I'm not part of that.
If it weren't for the American juice companies there wouldn't be anybody to pay the stupid legal bills except for the tobacco companies. I appreciate that but I still don't buy their liquids because I make my own.
In the mean time juice companies and Evolv will sell for export without restrictions of any kind which sort of proves this has nothing to do with anybody's health. America is rich in disposable income but only has 4% of the world's smokers. US vape shops will close, the rest of the US industry will move on to greener pastures. Vaping is so inexpensive it's cheaper than the least expensive cigarettes in the world (Cambodia).
American governments' treatment of vaping will be a stain on American history because the death toll will surpass the great wars. We should bury the fallen smokers at Arlington cemetery and have a Tomb of the Unknown Smoker with full time honor guard and an eternal flame provided by a 6' tall Zippo lighter.
Shops that might have opened don't because of increased business risk. Shops that are struggling close because the owner doesn't want to invest more money because of regulatory uncertainty. Most walk in retail is suffering anyway because mail order has learned how to be far far more efficient while walk in has not. Part of the natural progression for vapers is DIY and rebuilding. If you do those and buy only what you need your economic impact on the vaping "industry" becomes trivial, impossible to measure.
I stopped visiting my local vape speciality shops because I don't like the advice I hear given to the few beginners who walk in and I can't find anything to buy, mostly because there is nothing I need to buy and partly because their products are geared toward the cloud crowd and I'm not part of that.
If it weren't for the American juice companies there wouldn't be anybody to pay the stupid legal bills except for the tobacco companies. I appreciate that but I still don't buy their liquids because I make my own.
In the mean time juice companies and Evolv will sell for export without restrictions of any kind which sort of proves this has nothing to do with anybody's health. America is rich in disposable income but only has 4% of the world's smokers. US vape shops will close, the rest of the US industry will move on to greener pastures. Vaping is so inexpensive it's cheaper than the least expensive cigarettes in the world (Cambodia).
American governments' treatment of vaping will be a stain on American history because the death toll will surpass the great wars. We should bury the fallen smokers at Arlington cemetery and have a Tomb of the Unknown Smoker with full time honor guard and an eternal flame provided by a 6' tall Zippo lighter.
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[rant]
I wish I could feel sorry for the shops that are forced to close but I can't. Where were they during the past few years? If they hadn't had their heads in the sand they would have known what we know. These regs were coming. It was just a matter of time. Granted the regs are worse than we expected but some of them just acted like none of it was going to be geared toward them.
Why weren't they rallying their customer base. Why aren't they doing it now. They are wringing their hands over the child proof caps or lack of them on the product they have in stock right now. Why is that? They had to have known it was coming so why not just get out ahead of it. Some and maybe a lot of them did but for those that didn't, I can't feel sorry for them. I hate child proof caps. I have no need for them since I have no kids living or even visiting my home but it has been required on just about everything for a very long time. Why did they think they would get a pass on it.
There are hundreds of thousands of folks out there that depend on their local vape shop for all of their needs. Why haven't the shops let their customers know that we are in a fight for our very lives? Is it because they themselves don't know or is it because they just don't care. Some and I think a lot of them got into it for the quick buck and once the regs are in full force they will just gather up their toys and go on to the next thing.
[rant over]
I wish I could feel sorry for the shops that are forced to close but I can't. Where were they during the past few years? If they hadn't had their heads in the sand they would have known what we know. These regs were coming. It was just a matter of time. Granted the regs are worse than we expected but some of them just acted like none of it was going to be geared toward them.
Why weren't they rallying their customer base. Why aren't they doing it now. They are wringing their hands over the child proof caps or lack of them on the product they have in stock right now. Why is that? They had to have known it was coming so why not just get out ahead of it. Some and maybe a lot of them did but for those that didn't, I can't feel sorry for them. I hate child proof caps. I have no need for them since I have no kids living or even visiting my home but it has been required on just about everything for a very long time. Why did they think they would get a pass on it.
There are hundreds of thousands of folks out there that depend on their local vape shop for all of their needs. Why haven't the shops let their customers know that we are in a fight for our very lives? Is it because they themselves don't know or is it because they just don't care. Some and I think a lot of them got into it for the quick buck and once the regs are in full force they will just gather up their toys and go on to the next thing.
[rant over]
The child proof cap thing was enforced arbitrarily. The responsibility for that actually would fall on the manufacturing and distribution levels, not retail. Many on this forum unfairly demonize vape shops but without a good vape shop that helped me get started, I'd still be smoking.
There are good vape shops and there are those that got into it for the quick buck but that isn't anything new. Something new comes along and those with and extra dollar or two in their bank account see big $$$$$ signs. Thumbs up to the good shops. I don't paint them all with the same brush.
I am saying that we knew this was coming and if they were paying attention they would have known too. If the shops wanted to keep ahead of what was bound to happen they should have let the manufacturer know that they wouldn't be buying product from them that didn't have compliant caps. Like I said, I HATE child proof caps but it has become the law of the land and our e-liquid was not going to get a free pass.
If you tell a customer you might be going out of business that customer will start looking at other vendors and you have a self-fulfilling prophecy. The shop where a brother of mine buys his coil heads closed. The way he found out was a closed sign on the door. The other way you'll find out is if there's a going out of business sale.[rant]
I wish I could feel sorry for the shops that are forced to close but I can't. Where were they during the past few years? If they hadn't had their heads in the sand they would have known what we know. These regs were coming. It was just a matter of time. Granted the regs are worse than we expected but some of them just acted like none of it was going to be geared toward them.
Why weren't they rallying their customer base. Why aren't they doing it now. They are wringing their hands over the child proof caps or lack of them on the product they have in stock right now. Why is that? They had to have known it was coming so why not just get out ahead of it. Some and maybe a lot of them did but for those that didn't, I can't feel sorry for them. I hate child proof caps. I have no need for them since I have no kids living or even visiting my home but it has been required on just about everything for a very long time. Why did they think they would get a pass on it.
There are hundreds of thousands of folks out there that depend on their local vape shop for all of their needs. Why haven't the shops let their customers know that we are in a fight for our very lives? Is it because they themselves don't know or is it because they just don't care. Some and I think a lot of them got into it for the quick buck and once the regs are in full force they will just gather up their toys and go on to the next thing.
This is true but they might not have had to go out of business if they had been doing all they could to get the support of their customers during the past few years instead of keeping quiet or even worse, telling their customers that all is well and they are not going to be affected. I have seen the frustration for lots of folks right here on this forum when they try to talk to their local shops. So many of them get upset when anything is mentioned to them.
In fact, those shops relied on guidance from their LAWLESS government (CPSC) that existing inventory of non-compliant bottles would be grandfathered. Their LAWLESS government then rescinded that guidance and eliminated the reasonable and customary grandfathering FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE EFFECTIVE DATE. The industry was given a huge middle finger shaft that previously we would only expect from Banana Republic Third World dictators. Welcome to the United Banana Republics of America.
URGENT: Child-Resistant Packaging Rules Change - SFATA | Smoke Free Alternatives Trade Association
Should vape shops have done more? Perhaps. Would it have mattered? Surely not. Their jack booted government is bound and determined to exterminate them and there is not much any of us can do, short of armed revolt.
I got my start vaping after walking into a local vape shop run by a very nice and very hard working young couple that threw their life savings into that shop. And they approached the subject of cessation with missionary zeal. Sure they catered to the Cloudz crowd too but that is not why they were there. Although I quickly "outgrew" them, I always felt guilty not buying more. They may not have the business acumen of Donald Trump but they do not deserve to be swatted down like a fly.
We are hated by our government, by all our health authorities, Tobacco Control and by our fellow citizens who have been trained to hate us. Do we really want to be hating on our own vape shops because they didn't stand up to Big Brother?
I agree, but I don't. The change from allowing existing stock to not allowing existing stock is ridiculous and could definitely lead to trouble for some vendors. However, the law wasn't passed on June 22nd when that first letter went out stating existing stock would be okay. The law was passed January 28th and they've had six months to prepare. Yes, some could be stuck with stock that they thought was okay to sell even though it's not in compliance. Most, from what I've seen, have been scrambling to get the paperwork for the stock they have that IS in compliance. That is no ones fault but their own.
I totally agree with you. I know why we are where we find ourselves today. Up to this point we were doing a pretty good job of self regulation but it wasn't good enough for the money hungry wolves out there but we had to know the child proof caps would be required. I also know that it seems to have happened over night and I am not hating on our vape shops. I am just pointing out that without their help in spreading the word as to what was coming, they have let us down! JMHO
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