Vaping for nicotine advantages?

[RainSong]

Great thread, I enjoyed reading it.

 

[mosspa]

I wish I had something pithy to say here, but Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays seems appropriate.

 

[DavidOck]

And to you and yours, @mosspa

 

[choochoogranny]

Leave pithy to the........ "pithers", mosspa. A good old fashioned "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" is always welcomed. Thank you. You too!

 

[beck5711]

mosspa.... I truly want to thank you for starting this thread! I just finished to the last post and am hungry for more! Food for thought I say.. and that's always a good thing.. especially as we age we need more stimulation.

My last cigarette was January 9 2014 after smoking roughly 2 packs a day for 47 years. I didn't want to quit cigarettes and found vaping a wonderful exit from smoking to which I am grateful. I'm the only one that I "know" that lost all sensation of taste and smell for over 2 months when I quit smoking. When I finally started getting those sensations back I still didn't "feel" quite right... I also for months after had the weirdest "feelings" and realized (I think) they came from all the chemicals in cigarettes that for the most part to me I never really thought about... until after I decided to quit and wanted to know "what was wrong with me"? I always "thought" nicotine was the culprit for everything.

Ok so I'm babbling some..lol but I just wanted to thank you for extending my knowledge of nicotine and it's possible benefits that our government would rather keep us in the dark over... and thank you for your sharing with us!

Merry Christmas!!

 

[Smoke_too_much]

Of course it is, because nicotine has very little to do with the smoking/vaping habit except for acting as a discriminative stimulus to tell the brain you are getting nicotine. Nicotine is not the terminal reinforcer in the chain of responses making up smoking/vaping behavior. Having completed the chain is the terminal reinforcer. This is why smoking is such a difficult habit for some people to quit. It is the behavioral act of smoking/vaping that is habitual. Using more mls is directly a consequence of engaging in vaping behavior more. This accounts for why many people who successfully substitute vaping for smoking find it relatively easy to reduce their nicotine intake to physiologically meaningless concentrations with little to no effort. If nicotine was maintaining the response, these people would not continue to vape. That they do demonstrates conclusively that nicotine is not reinforcing the response chain involved in vaping behavior. Viewed from that perspective, I am a much better candidate for psychological addiction to nicotine than is either a long time smoker or somebody who substitutes vaping for a long ingrained smoking habit. Assuming that I haven't been experiencing a placebo effect for the last year and a half I have been vaping and obtaining a positive pharmacological effect from the nicotine, reducing my nicotine intake will directly lead to negative consequences (i.e., negative punishment). My guess is that if this cognitive enhancement I am experiencing is a real effect, the longer I continue to vape the larger the contrast will be if I stop ingesting nicotine. Since it is the nicotine that my improved cognitive clarity is dependent on, I should find it reasonably easy to change my route of administration if, say, the university passes a proposed draconian "campus-wide nicotine products ban" that would make possession of any nicotine product not recognized by the medical establishment as a valid smoking cessation tool illegal on campus. If that happens, I guess I am forced to dose myself orally with nicotine lozenges. Except for working out pharmacodynamic equivalence in the routes of administration that fits my own physiology, I shouldn't have a problem with this, except I hate the taste of those things.

Hi Mosspa
It is good to see someone agreeing with what I've felt about the cig addiction for a long time now. It's not the nic but rather the reinforcement of the reward ceremony that makes smoking so hard to quit and why vaping has it all over the other smoking cessation options.

As to senior .....ah.....ah....oh yea, moments, no don't have any of those. It would be great for the vaping industry if someone could tie nicotine to alzheimer's reduction because then there would be no stopping vaping.

 

[DavidOck]

The research is being done, but nobody in the media cares....

Start here:
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today

and here: http://ejuiceconnoisseur.com/2014/05/01/the-low-down-on-nicotine-and-memory/

 

[MacTechVpr]

The research is being done, but nobody in the media cares....

Start here:
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today

and here: http://ejuiceconnoisseur.com/2014/05/01/the-low-down-on-nicotine-and-memory/

True that dav and I'm a beneficiary for one.

Good luck all and Merry Christmas.

 

[mosspa]

I haven't taught my neuropharmacology course for a couple years and I'm currently teaching it this semester. I'm giving the alcohol & nicotine lecture next week and I will post the nicotine part of the PowerPoint lecture if there is any interest. I think that PowerPoint allows export to a PDF so people won't need PP to read it.

 

[unixunderground]

--- Duplicate post, my browser seemed to have issues submitting, please see post under ---

 

[unixunderground]

The research is being done, but nobody in the media cares....

Start here:
Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today

and here: http://ejuiceconnoisseur.com/2014/05/01/the-low-down-on-nicotine-and-memory/

True that dav and I'm a beneficiary for one.

Good luck all and Merry Christmas.

I haven't taught my neuropharmacology course for a couple years and I'm currently teaching it this semester. I'm giving the alcohol & nicotine lecture next week and I will post the nicotine part of the PowerPoint lecture if there is any interest. I think that PowerPoint allows export to a PDF so people won't need PP to read it.

Great to see this thread active once again.
Mosspa, I'd love to see your PowerPoint on nicotine! Please post it or PM me.

Also thought I'd give an update on a related topic, I started a thread 2 years ago about vaping as a never-smoker for cognitive enhancement purposes (https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/vaping-nicotine-as-a-never-smoker-why-not.692685) and was met with a lot of concern by most users as to this being senseless and dangerous.

Since first vaping, out of pure curiosity, I've also tried cigarettes and cigars.

I am glad to report that I've experienced no negative effects by starting to vape as a never-smoker, and many positives as a matter of fact.

Also I can as well report that at least in my experience, vaping does not lead to smoking addiction.
Having never tried one, when a colleague offered me a cigarette I was intrigued and though being fully aware of its addictiveness potential and health-damaging effects, I thought I might as well try it out once just to know what it's like.

As soon as I took the first inhalation I could definitely see how people get hooked as the other chemicals in tobacco smoke definitely had stronger semi-pleasent psychoactive and bodily effects than nicotine alone.
However the smoke itself was extremely hot, harsh, tasted horribly, affected my breathing and left me immediately wanting to get to my vape.
This coupled with awareness of its long term effects, horrible smell that lingers all over, and damage and disgust to those around led me to wonder how anyone still smokes.

That was over a year ago and I am yet to have another cigarette and after that experience I've always turned them down even at parties after a few drinks, where other non-smokers cave in.

Out of curiosity I also purchased some cuban cigars, and after a year of buying 12 I still have 11 left.

In other words, anecdotally, at least in my personal experience, vaping for cognitive enhancement as never-smoker does not lead to smoking addiction.

Nor vaping addiction, as a matter of fact. In the last two years I have gone months at a time entirely forgetting about my vape gear, to come back to it occasionally when running into it.

Though I can definitely understand nicotine's addictive potential, in my experience this is very slight compared to many other things (sugar, and for me drinking water, videogames and internet browsing included!).
When vaping nicotine I definitely feel like coming back for more when the effects start to wear off, but if I don't and put away my vape - whatever, I am perfectly fine after a few hours if only slightly tired, and in 1-3 days of not vaping I am back to my baseline cognitive function.

In any case, for these very slight negatives and insignificant withdrawal, I get a bunch of strong positive cognitive enhancement effects:

• Much faster reaction time
• Enhanced spacial awareness, perceive myself to be much better at driving
• Clearer thinking
• Decreased social anxiety, mood lifting
• Decreased inhibition
• Higher energy levels
• Better focus, drive to "just get on with things" and achieve what I set out to

These effects are very significant for me, so much so that I have now started having a bunch of eleaf iCare mini vapes all around as they are extremely small and stealthy, so that I can have a few tokes before important work meetings or social events.

In my experience Nicotine is vastly superior and has much lesser side effects than caffeine (which I also use rarely, just when really needed)

In short I'd definitely recommend other never-smokers to give it a shot. With that being said YMMV, and should you have an addictive personality and difficulties controlling yourself, I'd perhaps recommend against it.

In that case you might want to instead try other ways of nicotine administration with less immediate effects, such as patches, skin lotion, lozenges and chewing gum.

As a final note, I have also experienced that as expected the experienced effects lessen with sustained nicotine usage over time, and after a while more is needed to achieve the same effects.

Mosspa, perhaps you can expand on this and correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is because of an upregulation in the nicotine-binding receptors in the brain to compensate for their saturation.
This might also be the reason for which some people start feeling like they need nicotine to function normally after sustained long-term usage, and perform at below-baseline levels when withdrawing from nicotine.

In my experience this is also the reason why, just as with coffee, as to keep its positive effects optimal it's best to vape irregularly and take regular breaks, so that the brain has time to "re-balance" itself to the absence of nicotine.

---

TL;DR: Nicotine as a never-smoker has had fantastic cognitive effects, without leading to addiction nor smoking.

Anyone interested in Nicotine's nootropic/cognitive enhancing potential, should check out this write up by independent researched Gwern https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine

 

[choochoogranny]

Welcome back, Mosspa. Count me interested.

Whew, unixunderground. That was some post and a very informative one. Since reducing my nicotine intake to a bare minimum am noticing a "slowness", however, am sleeping a bit longer which is a benefit. Still, going to increase a little to see if it sharpens my responses without affecting the snooze time.

 

[sofarsogood]

It's been a goal of mine to reduce daily ml's but not so worried about daily mg's of nicotine. 5 months ago my employer restricted vaping on the shop floor where i had vaped freely for the previous several years. The effect of that was to reduce daily ml's from 7 to 4-5. That reduction seems to be holding on days off so may be my tolerance or expectation for nic has changed.

I would be satisfied with 3.5 ml per day and 35 mg of nic total which might be comparable to nic levels when I was smoking. It seems unlikely I would go back to smoking if I couldn't vape. I vape because I enjoy it and because nic is relaxing and may be does more for me than that.

 

[DavidOck]

I haven't taught my neuropharmacology course for a couple years and I'm currently teaching it this semester. I'm giving the alcohol & nicotine lecture next week and I will post the nicotine part of the PowerPoint lecture if there is any interest. I think that PowerPoint allows export to a PDF so people won't need PP to read it.

Count me in as well, @mosspa . If ECF doesn't allow posting a pdf, maybe put it up on your blog page?

 

[schatz]

Same here, still searching for answers to anything.

 

[mosspa]

Mosspa, perhaps you can expand on this and correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is because of an upregulation in the nicotine-binding receptors in the brain to compensate for their saturation.
This might also be the reason for which some people start feeling like they need nicotine to function normally after sustained long-term usage, and perform at below-baseline levels when withdrawing from nicotine.

I'm kind of ashamed to admit my failure to keep up with the advances in the pharmacodynamics neuropharmacology of nicotine in favor of a selfish interest in the pharmacokinetics (absorption and distribution, mainly). An amazing amount of information about the brain nicotinic acetylcholine (nACh) systems has been garnered since the last time I comprehensively reviewed the pharmacodynamics literature. While both up regulation and down regulation phenomena occur with brain nACh receptors, the receptors themselves are self-modifying in their responses to nicotine. The two main aspects that account for much cognitive and neurobehavioral phenomena are (1) the propensity for high concentrations of nicotine to act as antagonists at most nicotinic receptors, and (2) for the receptors to be come desensitized to nicotine shortly after their initial activation by the drug. Additionally, in the last eight years, or so, a lot has been learned about the specific location and function of many different sub-types of brain nicotinic receptors. By integrating all of this rather new knowledge, it is now possible to form better hypotheses as to how nicotine works to produce the effects that are observed. This, however, would be too much information for a single post here (especially one I constructed off the top of my head). I have been working on a total reorganization of the nicotine lecture for over a week, now, to get all of this information in one place. After I post the PowerPoint some of your questions may be answered, or at least you will have some information on which to ask more specific questions.

 

[mosspa]

Count me in as well, @mosspa . If ECF doesn't allow posting a pdf, maybe put it up on your blog page?

I'm pretty sure I posted at least one PDF to this thread. I know the software on which this forum is based accepts them, so I'm pretty confident it will work. Also, I don't have a "blog page" of which I am aware. If worse comes to worse, I can always upload it to MediaFire and hot link that here.

 

[sofarsogood]

I'm kind of ashamed to admit my failure to keep up with the advances in the pharmacodynamics neuropharmacology of nicotine in favor of a selfish interest in the pharmacokinetics (absorption and distribution, mainly). An amazing amount of information about the brain nicotinic acetylcholine (nACh) systems has been garnered since the last time I comprehensively reviewed the pharmacodynamics literature. While both up regulation and down regulation phenomena occur with brain nACh receptors, the receptors themselves are self-modifying in their responses to nicotine. The two main aspects that account for much cognitive and neurobehavioral phenomena are (1) the propensity for high concentrations of nicotine to act as antagonists at most nicotinic receptors, and (2) for the receptors to be come desensitized to nicotine shortly after their initial activation by the drug. Additionally, in the last eight years, or so, a lot has been learned about the specific location and function of many different sub-types of brain nicotinic receptors. By integrating all of this rather new knowledge, it is now possible to form better hypotheses as to how nicotine works to produce the effects that are observed. This, however, would be too much information for a single post here (especially one I constructed off the top of my head). I have been working on a total reorganization of the nicotine lecture for over a week, now, to get all of this information in one place. After I post the PowerPoint some of your questions may be answered, or at least you will have some information on which to ask more specific questions.

Thanks for checking in with us. We are eager students. If so much more is known, presumably mostly good news, how come none of that seems too be filtering into the debate about ecigs? Public health officials and government regulators say stupid things about nicotine that scientists probably knew weren't true 30+ years ago.

 

[DavidOck]

I'm pretty sure I posted at least one PDF to this thread. I know the software on which this forum is based accepts them, so I'm pretty confident it will work. Also, I don't have a "blog page" of which I am aware. If worse comes to worse, I can always upload it to MediaFire and hot link that here.

All good then. Couldn't remember board rules, but do recall that some file types aren't allowed.

 

[mosspa]

Thanks for checking in with us. We are eager students. If so much more is known, presumably mostly good news, how come none of that seems too be filtering into the debate about ecigs?

Because most of the new information doesn't really have any practical relevance to the debates as they are construed, their inclusion would probably only serve to further confuse already confused bureaucrats. The new stuff just explains the phenomenology, it doesn't address safety, addiction, etc.