Vaping in public places in Chicago is banned...

Discussion in 'Law and the E-Cigarette' started by krijmo, Jan 18, 2014.

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  1. krijmo

    krijmo Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    ...and I'm doing it anyway! I work in a restaurant and my boss informed me we would have to stop vaping in the kitchen. I told him fine, but you cant control what i do in a bathroom stall, and frankly, based on what other women do in those stalls my vapor is a public service, lol. I'll walk in there, and if it smells like a place where people potty, its gonna smell like a bakery when I'm done! No charge boss.
    And I'm also dashing into every dark corner i can find as well!
    YOUR FLIMSY LAWS WILL NOT CONTAIN ME! MWAHAHAHA!
    LONG LIVE THE VAPE!!!!!
     
  2. patkin

    patkin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

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    Is the kitchen in public view?
     
  3. Talyon

    Talyon Vape 4 Life Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Can always move up here, ecigs are not recommended but they are legal.
     
  4. Stratoblaster

    Stratoblaster Full Member

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    I'm gonna say this. I probably won't make any friends on here but this is what I feel about the vaping in public issue.

    First, I love to vape. I am a chain vaper. I diy all my juices, rebuild my own coils, and stockpile. I believe we shoild have the right to vape and that it should be a personal choice. That being said.....

    While non-vapers don't understand what it is, I understand that they don't understand. We should try to understand that. While we have quite a bit of evidence that it's pretty much harmless to those around us, the long term jury is still out. As long as it's already been around, it's still brand new to a lot of folks. A lot of folks are discovering daily and even seeing and hearing about it for the first time on a daily basis. That being said.....

    I watched a guy in a store the other day blow out a huge cloud of what was probably all vg vaper. It was beyond any exhale I've ever seen from any cigarette. Now from the point of view of me as a vaper, it really bothered me. I'll explain that a bit in a moment. From the point of view of a non-vaper, I can only imagine. It sure looked like smoke to me. You think they want to hear, oh it's not smoke, it's just vapor and it won't hurt you. Who cares? Smoke or vapor, it has some substance. You can see it and smell it. It has substance and matter. They don't understand what it is. I understand that.

    Why does it bother me to see something like that in a public place. First, we haven't won the war yet. We should still have a little discretion and some respect for the folks around us. The long term jury is still out and we don't have enough to stand on. Why fuel the fire? Guys like that just fuel the fire and help usher in government regulation and banning.

    Besides the health benefits, I love the benefits of vaping. I can vape in my house. I can vape in my vehicles. And I can vape around the folks around me that do understand without it harming them (I think). And the DIY has turned into one of my favorite hobbies. However, I respect and understand the folks that don't understand. They may have just seen it for the first time and haven't had time to go research the difference between smoke and vapor. And really, should they have to and should they even care to? From what they can see and smell, there is substance in it regardless of what it is.

    I myself can go shopping for an hour or two, go sit through a movie, or go do my day job and somehow survive without my nicotine fix. Rest assured that the first ting I do when I get to my truck is start hitting on my tank. I am seriously addicted to 30mg juice. And I've even snuck off to the bathroom stall a time or two. That's discretion and respect for the folks that don't understand yet.

    Rather than being so concerned about being able to vape in public or where other people are, I'm more concerned with keeping our rights to get the supplies we need without government regulation. You can't smoke {OTHER STUFF} in public. You can't drink in public. But in a lot of places you can brew, grow, and use at home. However, abuse has forced, and at times much needed, government regulation. We're the minority. Blowing big clouds of vapor out where everyone can see it and smell it is taking push to the level of shove.

    Until we have our way, we should be able to fight this battle with some wisdom, discretion, and respect for the folks that don't understand yet. The long term will have the proof for or argument against vaping. Wisdom, discretion, and respect.
     
  5. krijmo

    krijmo Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    I totally agree with you. I would have taken issue with the the guy blowing out a giant cloud too. If I'm in public, I usually hold in my vapor a little longer so I blow nothing out.
     
  6. Deeo

    Deeo Super Member ECF Veteran

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    You work in a restaurant and your upset that you can't vape in the kitchen. I vape and i sure wouldn't want someone vaping over my food. Sure vaping is harmless but think about it the vape came from inside your mouth. I am not trying to start an argument just i understand why your boss wants to vaping in the kitchen.
     
  7. makeyourself

    makeyourself Full Member

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    I fully accept your point that second-hand vapor has not been conclusively proven to be 100% harmless and completely understand where you are coming from in general. However I also think that a lot of this banning of vaping is down to discriminatory attitudes towards anything that can even possibly be associated with smoking. That and the fact that certain vested interests have a vendetta out against e-cigarettes. For instance, here in the UK, the British Medical Association who are the main organisation that represent doctors, have called for vaping to be banned in enclosed public spaces because it "normalises" smoking again. Interestingly they have never called for nicotine inhalers to be banned.

    I personally feel that in a free society an individual should have the liberty to do whatever they want provided they are not harming anybody else. Despite the lack of conclusive proof there is no evidence whatsoever that anybody is harming anyone by vaping around others and it is theoretical unlikely that somebody would be. Therefore non-vapers/smokers should also show some tolerance. I am regularly irritated and even offended by other people's actions, behaviours and words but I don't think that they should be banned or outlawed. The unfortunate fact is that if we allow it to be banned in public it will be an uphill struggle to ever get the bans lifted again regardless of any new scientific evidence.
     
  8. krijmo

    krijmo Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    A commercial kitchen consists of areas like the dishwashing area, etc. I have never vaped "over food." I was just making light of a law that I think is goofy. I work fine dining and have also taken a food safety course. Sheesh.
     
  9. GolemGolem

    GolemGolem Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    In public I tend to follow smoking rules anywho. I still like the ritual of going outside for a few and chatting. I don't like confrontations with startled strangers. Private I vape where and when I want, and if I'm in the walk-in by myself at work, I'll have a puff or two on the DL.
    I work produce now so it ain't like I'm cooking any more, it's rare I go more than 5 hours without a 15 now a days. Hell we used to puff other things in the walk-in back when I was a cook. You do what you have to do to get through a 12 hour shift with 2-3 10 min breaks tops, all at top speed, all demanding precision, all with other cooks.

    I'll die a little though if a cop hassles me for walking down the street vaping. I'll die a lot if it gets banned outright and no one will ship me supplies.
     
  10. serenity21899

    serenity21899 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    But we have to think of the children of Chicago....Mayor Emanuel was on the local news station talking about this gem before it passed, and as usual, he had no clue what he was talking about. Stating old facts and whining about the children and on and on.

    Personally, I do not vape where smoking is not allowed. And not vaping in a restaurant or a movie is not going to bother me. What does bother me is places like bars and clubs where it was allowed. First off, no children are allowed, so we are protecting who? Second, this forces the vapers back outside with smokers, which just sucks.
     
  11. krijmo

    krijmo Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Just go into a bathroom stall. I'll sneak a vape anywhere i feel like it. I understand the desire to keep children away. Are they supposed to cater the laws to us so our feelings aren't hurt? Vaping is allowed only in bars? Because due to the fact that many bars serve food, children are allowed. I dont know how they'd make a law like that. I refuse to go outside and vape in front a bunch of smokers. Its cold outside. I'll stick to bathroom stalls, dark corners, and i too have vaped in the walk in cooler....
     
  12. Berylanna

    Berylanna Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    People keep saying it is not conclusively(*) proven that vaping is safe to bystanders.

    Well, that is true. Vapor has 2 ingredients FDA-approved for direct inhalation (1st-hand AND 2nd-hand): nicotine and propylene glycol.
    The other 2 ingredients are FDA-approved for cooking with, which means heating in restaurants: food flavors and vg.

    So ALL 4 ingredients are LONG SINCE FDA-approved for second-hand inahalation.

    Does that mean they are harmless? Hell, no. No food or coffee or anything hot has every been PROVED harmless second-hand. I have a friend who can die if someone puts a slice of lemon on a hot plate near her.

    But if our standard is that something must be proved 2nd-hand harmless to have it indoors in public, the VERY FIRST thing that would have to go would be air fresheners, with all hot foods and drinks coming right after.

    So I'm 100% fine with prohibiting vaping wherever hot food and drinks are prohibited. As soon as all restaurants convert to cold food only, I'm fine with prohibiting vaping in restaurants.

    I am NOT fine with vaping in libraries, pediatrician's offices, day care centers (though the reason kids in day care centers cannot have steaming hot food has more to do with tongues and fingers than lungs)

    BTW, anybody who thinks anything FDA-approved is safe needs to look up Chantix.


    * It is only ALMOST conclusively proven safe for bystanders. See the Burstyn study http://publichealth.drexel.edu/~/media/files/publichealth/ms08.pdf
     
  13. makeyourself

    makeyourself Full Member

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    Nothing like a bit of emotive language to block out any legitimate facts or debate.

    Very good point and one that I had previously considered myself regarding coffee vapour. I absolutely agree, I'm not sure if the levels of vapor are the same but no doubt they would be or even higher for instance in a kitchen where food is regularly being vaporised. I have never heard of any possible health risk from vaporised food or drink or anyone being directed to take precautions. Like caffeine in coffee, there is of course the nicotine in e-cigs, which is also relatively harmless and levels are pretty low in second-hand vapor. In consideration of this, there would appear to be very little argument whatsoever for banning vaping in any enclosed public space.
     
  14. Stratoblaster

    Stratoblaster Full Member

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    My point in my post was regardless of whether it is harmful or harmless. It's about discretion. As I said, this is still new and unknown to a lot of folks. Exposure should be a little more gradual until all the facts are common knowledge. While we should all be tolerant to everybody's personal rights, we need to understand what the other people who have not been exposed to vaping see and think.

    I haven't been vaping very long. When I did start, one of the things I heard the most is how we can vape wherever we want without the same regulations as smoking cigarettes. I thought that was pretty cool. Still, I never did. I don't know if it was just common sense or what. It just doesn't feel appropriate to puff where other folks are eating, where smoking isn't allowed, or even watching a movie.

    I was recently at a walk in movie and it came on the screen that electronic cigarettes were prohibited and anyone using them would be asked to leave. My thought was that it's a bummer that they have to specifically mention that. Why do they have to mention that? Because the vamping community has abused discretion. Imagine, with the way the projector shines through the theater, 5, 10, 20 vapers puffing on their tanks. What does the non-vaping community see? Again, they don't care to hear "oh it's not smoke, it's just harmless vapor". It sure looks like smoke and a lot of it in that type of light. And it does have substance and matter if I can see it and smell it. The vaping community has hurt itself.

    On another point. The industry has hurt itself by categorizing vaping with cigarettes. "E-cigarettes" says all a non-vaper needs to hear. The damage is done. Websites and stores that market with a name with ecigarette or sell supplies for ecigarettes instead of vaporizers and vapor create an image for the uninformed, intolerant, and ignorant. Still, until this battle is won in our favor, discretion and understanding of their rights and space is in order.
     
  15. tbaz

    tbaz Full Member

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    I never agree with anything out of Chicago politics but that is another point.

    I agree that that there is an element in the vape community with "I will show you' or a "bad ..." attitude when it comes to public vapiing. A couple of examples:

    I was at a New years eve bar/restaurant party. There was a handful of people vaping ego/evods...the small stuff. A little vapor was in the air, but not too bad and quickly disapating. A small table of vapers came in and promptly pulled out their mechs and cloud blowing devices. They started vaping large clouds and challenging each other. Within a few minutes the bar was hazzy almost like a smoke machine went off. Someone asked them to lay off and the rhetoric started about being only vapor, will not hurt you, smells good and all the talk. A hassel broke out and all involved were asked to leave. SOme clapped when they left. Not good moment for vaping.

    Net of the story it was a bad example for vaping in general and a small group messed it up for those vaping responsibilty. It is crap like that that drives the "ban vaping play". Oh and about the cold food comment... I have never seen hot food lay out clouds over and over again. IMHO...this is not an us and them. It is common sense and how we can all get along and mutual respect goes a long way. Make it start with you.

    Example two

    I travel a lot and go thorugh many airports. I often vape between flights. I do not like vaping in the bath room stall so I look for a gate with no plane and a small number of people. I do not pull out my mech and .3ohm build but something small like a itast VV or a ego with a evod and quietly stand or sit aside. It satifies my nic urge. I have never had anyone say anything to me negative. Some come up to ask about ecigs, where to get them, etc. Usually the smoker trying to quit. All good.

    The other day I was traveling though an airport and there was a guy at a gate, a gate full of people, vaping away with pretty heavy vapor. It so happened the sun was low and shining through the windos which only added to the haze. A security guard asked him to stop after a few complaints. He did put his stuff away ,but again, the negative perception was made to the non vapers. Based on that experience a few more votes for a ban.

    In some regards it is up to the vaping community to help our public image as a whole

    I did not start vaping to prove I could vape in a public space. I started vaping to quit smoking cigarettes. I did. The public side of it all is just an added benefit, when it makes sense.

    TBAZ
     
  16. Ohms Lawbreaker

    Ohms Lawbreaker Super Member ECF Veteran

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    Saw a guy sitting in my local park the other day, brought his lawn chair, a magazine -- and a cigar. He was well off the beaten path where joggers and walkers are the main traffic, not near where the kids play. After a few minutes, though, I got a whiff of his cigar.

    Now, I quit smoking 7 months ago thanks largely to vaping, but I gotta say, that cigar just smelled like freedom to me.
     
  17. Berylanna

    Berylanna Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I agree about discretion. The BEST way to teach that our stuff is harmless is to MOSTLY go outdoors when vaping, and 'stealth vape' which we are now supposed to call "vape discretely" if we need to vape where smoking is prohibited.

    I've always done that, and have not seen anybody else in the Bay Area doing differently.

    Where I DO blow big clouds is when I'm walking past smokers outdoors. THEM I want to impress.

    When I vape discretely in a pub, usually nobody notices. But I put my vape on the table between vapes so people can see it. Once in a blue moon someone in their 20's comes up to me and asks "Is that one of those e-cigarettes? Does it actually work? Do you think it would work for my Dad? He's starting to have heart problems........"

    Now THAT is the kind of public demonstration I'm in favor of.

    When I say it's nonsense to ban vaping in places that have food, I'm talking about 2 ways I will fight and stand my ground:

    1. It should not be legislated. And I don't like to hear vapers cave to the "It's unknown" argument.

    2. A vendor like Starbucks that makes a big public statement about banning vaping OUTDOORS is going to get boycotted by me. This is good for small local coffee houses anyway. But I will NOT lobby for a bill to FORCE Starbucks or anybody else to allow vaping. I just sent them my cut-up card and labels from store-bought Starbucks and an estimate of how much I had been spending there, along with thanks for turning me on to some delightful local one-of-a-kind coffee houses.
     
  18. Explicit

    Explicit Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Funny this topic should come up today. I was eating lunch with a few guys at the office. At work we have a fairly nice sized lunch room where the employees all meet and eat and what not. A guy came out of one of the meeting rooms and to my surprise was tooting on a HUGE mod that I could not begin to recognize. He walked by and blew out a cloud that literally covered our entire table. Now I love vaping, and I support public vaping, but this was a bit much. I also think he bought the hip Montreal Flavor "Merde de Chien" as I have never smelled anything this awful in my life and it completely encased the entire lunch room. The guy vaping kind of had this smug look on his face and promptly left the lunch room. I had to run damage control on a bunch of people who thought he had realized some chemical warfare at our company.

    Case in point - the guy was an ........ He had the mentality I see a LOT of vapers in Toronto have, which is " Its not banned so I can do this wherever I want and inconvenience everyone around me! Why? because I can!". The vaping community as a whole needs to brighten up and respect the wishes of others, or we are in for a very rough ride.
     
  19. Steamix

    Steamix Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Penis envy (your mod's bigger than yours), 'pissing' contests (I can make bigger clouds than you), 'in-your-face' attitude...

    Seems common sense takes leave very now and then and makes way for behaviour patterns which are more associated with teenagers in the middle of puberty.

    Blowing big clouds between you and me in a movie theater will cost you the price of my admission ticket - and I'm going to ask nicely just once ...

    As one French philosopher once put it: 'Politeness is like an air cushion. Not much in it but it softens daily blows of life'
     
  20. JustB'nMe

    JustB'nMe Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I don't think there is anything wrong with using discretion with where to vape. I personally only vape in my home, my car, open air spaces, and around friends and family. They are happy I no longer smoke cigarettes so they support my new journey. However, I get it that people who've never smoked don't understand vaping and are naturally leary. Banning vaping in public places doesn't really bother me as long as said ban is limited to indoors. I was a PAD smoker for 14 years so I was accustomed to only being able to smoke in "designated" areas, which was ALWAYS outdoors. So with that said, think of vaping like a fart. Yes, you have the freedom to do it but that doesn't mean everyone around you has to be subjected to it. Just my humble opinion.

    Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
     
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