So, according to Dr. Dean Edell - the radio guy on AM in the USA, one pack of cigarettes smoked over a period of a week has no real health affects beyond, say, living in NYC and breathing that polution every day. That was like 10 years ago, not sure if he has since revised that. I don't live in NYC. So, my plan is to keep the bene's of tabacco smoking with 3 a day of the analogues, while filling in all the chain-smoking activity with the e-cig. I've noticed that the e-cig tastes better an hour after an analogue.
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I guess we can all find a doctor to support our positions (which are often based on our desires). I don't question that Dr. Edell said that, but Dr. Murray Laugesen, the man doing the e-cig research in New Zealand, has an opposite opinion. No cigarette is okay. Not even one a day.
Who is right? Does dose make the poison? Is there a magic "safe" number that could be smoked daily? Or does each cigarette inhaled cause damage?
Whatever the answer, surely no one would argue that smoking is better than not smoking, or that cigarettes have more health benefits than deadly consequences. If you can quit, do so. If you can't, keep that dose as low as possible.
Who is right? Does dose make the poison? Is there a magic "safe" number that could be smoked daily? Or does each cigarette inhaled cause damage?
Whatever the answer, surely no one would argue that smoking is better than not smoking, or that cigarettes have more health benefits than deadly consequences. If you can quit, do so. If you can't, keep that dose as low as possible.
Myk said:
vaping does not ease panic attacks (may or may not physically cause them, definitely mentally causes them). Pipe smoking does not ease panic attacks. Chewing tobacco does not ease panic attacks. Cigars don't ease panic attacks.
Only cigarettes ease panic attacks. The chemicals in cigarettes seem more psychoactive than other tobaccos.
What I find interesting is all the brain chemicals they list are things that are adjusted by drugs for panic disorder. Sounds like my (and many other's) self-medication is the correct one.
- Myk, I find this very interesting! I have read about studies done on mental patients...a huge percentage smoke. Most of the head cases I know (and I say that with affection) ALL smoke! Manic depression, garden variety depression, panic disorder, OCD, even ADHD...all of them smoke like chimneys.
Of course, what does this say about me, lol! I'm having a difficult time quitting, despite vaping for a month now. Somehow, vaping is just not as satisfying. I do have a history of depression, though (not hardcore, it is controlled with very low dose Zoloft when I feel the need). Hmmm.....very intersting!
vaping does not ease panic attacks (may or may not physically cause them, definitely mentally causes them). Pipe smoking does not ease panic attacks. Chewing tobacco does not ease panic attacks. Cigars don't ease panic attacks.
Only cigarettes ease panic attacks. The chemicals in cigarettes seem more psychoactive than other tobaccos.
What I find interesting is all the brain chemicals they list are things that are adjusted by drugs for panic disorder. Sounds like my (and many other's) self-medication is the correct one.
- Myk, I find this very interesting! I have read about studies done on mental patients...a huge percentage smoke. Most of the head cases I know (and I say that with affection) ALL smoke! Manic depression, garden variety depression, panic disorder, OCD, even ADHD...all of them smoke like chimneys.
Of course, what does this say about me, lol! I'm having a difficult time quitting, despite vaping for a month now. Somehow, vaping is just not as satisfying. I do have a history of depression, though (not hardcore, it is controlled with very low dose Zoloft when I feel the need). Hmmm.....very intersting!
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Wow great thread and allot of valid points. I haven't received my e-cig yet (pls ship today PS) so I can't express my personal reaction as of yet. But I used to love a pipe but also could smoke a whole bowl, put it down and smoke an analog. Never satisfied that craving. On the other hand for the past 2 or so years I have been making my own smokes with a high quality tobacco from D&R (cheaper too). Now when I enjoy a pipe bowl that craving for an analog is non-existent 90% of the time. Rest of the time I think it's that whole comfort thing with the analogs. But curious non the less. It's our right as consumers to know just what the @$%$ they are putting in those pre-made reconstituted crap they sell to us for a premium?
I think this is a valid point (with the exception that a person has complete control over it).
I do agree that there is more to the addiction than just the nicotine, and while it may be other ingredients I think there is the "mental" aspect.
I have been smoking for around 10 years with an average of a pack a day; I also used to be heavily addicted to weed. A lot of people dont think of weed as addicting but I was ADDICTED; even worse than cigarettes!!! This led me to question whether the cause of the addiction to cigarettes is really just chemical. I dont know the addictive chemicals in weed, but I was just as addicted to weed as I am to cigarettes. The only way I stopped using was by moving to another country and losing all the "suppliers" that I trusted. I did crave, and still do crave weed.
While the ingredients in cigarettes may have started my addiction, over time I think the habit is what keeps me from quiting. I have been using my ecig since November and still cant seem to quit smoking (although I smoke much less) so I know it is not just the nicotine. I think it is the "idea" of smoking a cig that keeps me coming back for more. While its not exactly the same, I think OCD might explain the cravings.
I do it out of habit. Here's some symptoms of OCD that I found:
(again Im not saying its OCD but something like it)
- Repetitive behaviors or mental acts that the person feels driven to perform in response to an obsession, or according to rules that must be applied rigidly.
- The behaviors or mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing distress or preventing some dreaded event or situation; however, these behaviors or mental acts are not actually connected to the issue, or they are excessive.
You might be interested in this:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...dy-demonstrates-power-nicotine-addiction.html
Hi guys,
New to the group and a couple of weeks vaping, so not an expert at all, but my experience is that the addictiuon is 100% a mind thing, have been smoke free for a week and could be wrong, but I believe it's just the habit, e-cig replaces the habit and you don't HAVE to have a regular cigarette.
Congrats for the group and for the "pioneering", I keep my hopes high on quitting for good with the help of my e-cigs.
Cheers from Mexico,
Nacho
New to the group and a couple of weeks vaping, so not an expert at all, but my experience is that the addictiuon is 100% a mind thing, have been smoke free for a week and could be wrong, but I believe it's just the habit, e-cig replaces the habit and you don't HAVE to have a regular cigarette.
Congrats for the group and for the "pioneering", I keep my hopes high on quitting for good with the help of my e-cigs.
Cheers from Mexico,
Nacho
Here's some new info I have found. Nicotine exists in two forms. The base form is the one that gets in the bloodstream quickly. Tobacco companies make sure that cigs and snuff have a basic pH so that more of the nicotine exists in its base form.
PG is very slightly acidic and converts to lactic acid in the body. So one reason we might not get the kick from vaping as we do from cigarettes is that most of the nicotine has been coverted to the slower absorbing acidic form.
Tobacco companies have been known to "boost" cigarettes by adding ammonia. The thought of smoking ammonia isn't pleasant, but I suppose it all depends on the level.
It would be interesting to test some eliquids to see what their pH is. If they can be adjusted to be slightly basic we might find that missing element we have been talking about.
PG is very slightly acidic and converts to lactic acid in the body. So one reason we might not get the kick from vaping as we do from cigarettes is that most of the nicotine has been coverted to the slower absorbing acidic form.
Tobacco companies have been known to "boost" cigarettes by adding ammonia. The thought of smoking ammonia isn't pleasant, but I suppose it all depends on the level.
It would be interesting to test some eliquids to see what their pH is. If they can be adjusted to be slightly basic we might find that missing element we have been talking about.
I will check the PH in the morning,at work. I check PH everyday many times a day. I check the PH of water. I never thought to do this. I have a feeling you are so right Cymri. Do you know,what can be used safely to raise the PH?
Just a little history on my part. Many years ago I stopped smoking for four years, I started again when my wife broke her ankle (she nearly lost her foot it was that severe). During that time my desire to smoke a cigarette never went away, it was only sheer bloody mindedness that made me not smoke. My weight went up to 17.5 stone, no idea what that is in kilos, and to be honest I was not the happiest bunny in the world at that time. Anyway I smoked for several years before going over to vaping. Prior to vaping I would smoke two kingsize cigarettes in succession each time to get the required 'hit' and satisfaction from smoking. Funny thing about smoking tobacco, if I smoked a cigar, the first thing I wanted was a cigarette so that almost confirms the extra chemicals found in cigarettes as those chemicals are unlikely to be found in cigars.
Since vaping I have found that I now detest the smell of smoking and the smell that lingers around people who smoke, so I have no desire to return to smoking. Like many who vape I find myself vaping for very long periods so vaping does not entirely replace smoking in that total satisfaction is not given like smoking. However vaping gives enough satisfaction to me so that I do not crave tobacco. My experience is that 'Normalisation' as TBob puts it does not happen with vaping like it would with tobacco, this is probably why we vape so much as our brains are waiting for that magic moment that says that we have refilled sufficiently from our nicotine fix. This is also why high dosage liquid is so dangerous because we don't know when we have overdosed until too late. Vaping currently works for me but it is not the be all and end all and in its current state will never be the total answer as it stands now. The only aspect that vaping does fully fulfil is the ritual of smoking cigarettes.
Since vaping I have found that I now detest the smell of smoking and the smell that lingers around people who smoke, so I have no desire to return to smoking. Like many who vape I find myself vaping for very long periods so vaping does not entirely replace smoking in that total satisfaction is not given like smoking. However vaping gives enough satisfaction to me so that I do not crave tobacco. My experience is that 'Normalisation' as TBob puts it does not happen with vaping like it would with tobacco, this is probably why we vape so much as our brains are waiting for that magic moment that says that we have refilled sufficiently from our nicotine fix. This is also why high dosage liquid is so dangerous because we don't know when we have overdosed until too late. Vaping currently works for me but it is not the be all and end all and in its current state will never be the total answer as it stands now. The only aspect that vaping does fully fulfil is the ritual of smoking cigarettes.
wow Kate, you have GREAT info!
And rejoice I am very curious to see what values you get. I love this forum! As for adjusting the pH higher if needed- good question on what to use.
As Kate points out in the thread she linked, a pH of 8 might be as high as we would want to go before it got too harsh. Another thing to consider is that depending on how fast the PG is coverted to lactic acid in the lungs the pH might be different where the nicotine is being absorbed than it is in the eliquid in the botlle. I don't think we do more than speculate on that. We can't make it so basic that we can't vape it.
Since tobacco companies boosted with ammonia, I'd say that is probably the leading candidate to use to adjust pH. Sure would have to go light with it and make sure that it was a pure ammonia water preparation. I'll search around and see if I can find any good natural additives that might be basic and not too nasty. As I said pH 8-9 is probably as high as we would want.
pH might already be at an optimum level in eliquid, Rejoice's test results will be interesting.
Here's another thread you might be interested in:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/6963-additives-throat-hit-boost.html#post106550
Here's another thread you might be interested in:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/6963-additives-throat-hit-boost.html#post106550
agreed Kate. If we can conclude that eliquids are generally in the correct pH range to favor the base form of nicotine, then that would nicely eliminate that factor from the equation and we'd be back to the MAOI ideas.
Absolutely fascinating thread, and it validates many thoughts that I've had just based on my own experiences.
I have tried to quit numerous times without any real success. The longest I've been able to quit has been about a year . . . got pregnant. The entire time, I craved cigarettes, even dreamed about them. I am utterly ashamed to admit that I could hardly wait to quit breasfeeding, knowing that after I did that, I'd probably start back again. And I did . . . three times.
In any event, I've been quite successful with the vaping, although after a few weeks, I did start craving analogs again. Nothing too terrible, and I am able to vape through the cravings for the most part. And when it gets incredibly strong, I get on the treadmill. Maybe I'll actually lose some weight.
In any event, I think that there are different types of addictions at play here.
Certainly, there's the nicotine addiction, but we all know that can't be the full story because if it were, patches and gums would have solved the problem.
Also, we know that there's a certain amount of addiction involved with the habit of smoking--the inhalation, hand/mouth habit. Vaping addresses this fairly well, although there are times when I long for the harshness of an analog, the heaviness and weight of the tobacco, the immediately soothing, relaxing feeling that you get when you smoke an analog--something that is almost impossible to mimic with vaping.
So I think there's also something else at play here, and I don't buy that's it's simply psychological. We've known for awhile that certain people get addicted to things fairly quickly, and I don't see it as some sort of moral weakness. In my family, alcoholism runs rampant, and I was raised from an early age to know that there was a "weakness" in our genetic makeup that made it far more likely that we'd become alcoholics without much effort. And that was well before the studies started coming out suggesting that there was a genetic link for some alcoholics.
In any event, this is interesting food for thought.
I have tried to quit numerous times without any real success. The longest I've been able to quit has been about a year . . . got pregnant.
The entire time, I craved cigarettes, even dreamed about them. I am utterly ashamed to admit that I could hardly wait to quit breasfeeding, knowing that after I did that, I'd probably start back again. And I did . . . three times. In any event, I've been quite successful with the vaping, although after a few weeks, I did start craving analogs again. Nothing too terrible, and I am able to vape through the cravings for the most part. And when it gets incredibly strong, I get on the treadmill. Maybe I'll actually lose some weight.
In any event, I think that there are different types of addictions at play here.
Certainly, there's the nicotine addiction, but we all know that can't be the full story because if it were, patches and gums would have solved the problem.
Also, we know that there's a certain amount of addiction involved with the habit of smoking--the inhalation, hand/mouth habit. Vaping addresses this fairly well, although there are times when I long for the harshness of an analog, the heaviness and weight of the tobacco, the immediately soothing, relaxing feeling that you get when you smoke an analog--something that is almost impossible to mimic with vaping.
So I think there's also something else at play here, and I don't buy that's it's simply psychological. We've known for awhile that certain people get addicted to things fairly quickly, and I don't see it as some sort of moral weakness. In my family, alcoholism runs rampant, and I was raised from an early age to know that there was a "weakness" in our genetic makeup that made it far more likely that we'd become alcoholics without much effort. And that was well before the studies started coming out suggesting that there was a genetic link for some alcoholics.
In any event, this is interesting food for thought.
baking soda raises the ph in my hot tub, my city water has a ph lower than 6, I put it in water first and melt it. I don't think baking soda will do it because it comes in a power. One thing for sure it will not hurt us (I think).
Rejoice did an excellent test on perhaps 5 or 6 eliquids. Some were near pH 8 and the others at pH 6. Follow Kate's link to the thread about pH she posted to see the results. The base form of nicotine is almost completely absent at pH 6 whereas it is in the 40-50% range near pH 8. Very interesting results.
And yes, baking soda might be a great way to adjust pH up- if it doesn't foul atomizers.
And yes, baking soda might be a great way to adjust pH up- if it doesn't foul atomizers.
I just ordered my first ecig. I'm more determined than ever to find an answer to this addiction as I am really starting to see and feel how my smoking is affecting me. All this time that reality was hidden due to the sense of well being that comes with having a smoke.
I'm especially intrigued by the efforts shown in this thread to understand what exactly are we all addicted to? Aside from the substances mentioned, I've read that there are as many as 500 additives in common cigarettes. I'm sure it has been brought up here and I just missed it browsing, but has anyone here switched to all natural tobacco with no additives? If so, how did your mind and body react in relation to the addiction?
I'm especially intrigued by the efforts shown in this thread to understand what exactly are we all addicted to? Aside from the substances mentioned, I've read that there are as many as 500 additives in common cigarettes. I'm sure it has been brought up here and I just missed it browsing, but has anyone here switched to all natural tobacco with no additives? If so, how did your mind and body react in relation to the addiction?
Welcome CapZ. Yes indeed this will help you put down the cigarettes. I'm pretty new here as well. I got a 901 vaporizer just over 3 weeks ago and haven't had a cigarette since. I feel better than I have in years. Get yourself some fairly high nicotine liquid to refill your carts since they don't last long at all and you are good to go.
I switched to American Spirits (no additives) for a time and liked them except for the hard draw- like sucking a golf ball thorugh a hose. I have read that they have some of the highest pH readings on the market which means more active form nicotine. I found them harsher than my Camel Lights and so went back to them. As far as additives go, yes it's very difficult to tease out from all of that what exactly besides nicotine are we jonesing for. We are off to a good start figuring that out here.
We are all trying to make this thing as good as it can be, and if you are reading threads like this one then you are probably one of the science minded folks who are really taking a hands on approach. Looking forward to seeing your contributions and Good Luck!
I switched to American Spirits (no additives) for a time and liked them except for the hard draw- like sucking a golf ball thorugh a hose. I have read that they have some of the highest pH readings on the market which means more active form nicotine. I found them harsher than my Camel Lights and so went back to them. As far as additives go, yes it's very difficult to tease out from all of that what exactly besides nicotine are we jonesing for. We are off to a good start figuring that out here.
We are all trying to make this thing as good as it can be, and if you are reading threads like this one then you are probably one of the science minded folks who are really taking a hands on approach. Looking forward to seeing your contributions and Good Luck!
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has anyone here switched to all natural tobacco with no additives? If so, how did your mind and body react in relation to the addiction?
I had smoked Virginia Slim Menthol Ultra Lights or Marlboro Ultra Light Menthols for years and years before switching to American Spirit for the last several years of my smoking.
Like Cymri, I found them a bit harsher, and I found that they burned slower and lasted longer than my previous brands. But other than noticing some differences, my mind and body didn't react at all to the change. There was no period where I felt any type of withdrawal symptoms or discomfort in making the switch to American Spirit.
I had smoked Virginia Slim Menthol Ultra Lights or Marlboro Ultra Light Menthols for years and years before switching to American Spirit for the last several years of my smoking.
Like Cymri, I found them a bit harsher, and I found that they burned slower and lasted longer than my previous brands. But other than noticing some differences, my mind and body didn't react at all to the change. There was no period where I felt any type of withdrawal symptoms or discomfort in making the switch to American Spirit.
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