Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!

[guitardedmark]

Actually, I CAN and WILL blame vaping for it! It is no secret in the vaping community, that respiratory problems, and cramping DO happen to many vapers. I understand that many people dont seem to have any problems in their journeys up to this point...and i hope they dont.

I am simply telling MY story, and how it played out for ME...NOBODY ELSE!!

Is it stoopid (stupid) that i havent been checked out yet by a doctor? Not at all. This is my FIRST day not vaping, so "geez" no i havent been able to tell if these symptoms have subsided. If they dont subside after a week or so, then yes, i will go get checked out.

Believe me, ive tried every thing under the sun to prevent the cramping, breathing problems etc. More water, only PG, only VG, Mixed, you name it...ive tried it! I am a very active 37 year old male, in great shape for my age. I have never experienced anything like these symptoms until i began vaping.

If I never started smoking analongs in the first place, this could all have been avoided. In that respect, i blame myself.
I think its important that new vapers understand that ecigs are not by any stretch of the imagination, risk free! Until it is proven otherwise, PLEASE let people share their experiances, without judgement!!!!!

Thanks-

I agree 100% Thanks for shedding some a much needed reality check on the fantasy world of vaping. Why do so many vapers refuse to accept any sort of negativity with vaping at all? The psychological effects of addiction never cease to amaze me...

 

[Lydia]

This is not a reaction specific on Laguna 6866, but in general on issues of this sort: Please take in mind the following;

The op mentioned breathing difficulties, panic attacks, the need to use inhalers, muscle cramps and a lot of stress in the time that the panic attacks started and the concern of the op about the safety of vaping, because of the lack of scientific studies that proves the safety of vaping.

Panic attacks and breathing difficulties are closely related to each other; panic attacks lead to breathing problems and other physical reactions like muscle cramps. And for some people breathing problems can easily lead to panic attacks. Experts do not doubt the strong correlation between these phenomena. Further on, it's typical for people with panic attacks to make irrational catastrophic claims without the simplest verification steps (see post no 71 by Kristin on this aspect !) So the essential task for therapists to cure people with panic attacks is to force them to make the necessary rational verification steps. If they are forced by the therapist to ‘feel’/get the rational proof that their irrational claims are incorrect….. the panic attacks and related physical reactions subside gradually and stop in the end.

Making irrational catastrophic claims about vaping is easily done: Till now the scientific prove that it’s relatively save to vape were not existing and the first studies with encouraging results are new.
Therefore it’s logical and human that a some people are more or less worried and make irrational conclusions. Not only people on this forum do it, also the anti-tobacco lobby, etc is doing it. This means that vapers who are already a bit worried can beyond of that read elsewhere non-justified claims from so-called experts about big dangers of vaping that can confuse them even more.

I’m not sure the above applies on the op. Maybe, maybe not, or maybe it’s only a part of the story. But I know for sure it can easily happen and I think it’s for every vaper wise to keep in mind how things can work out if you are worried about vaping and you are stressed. Even if you are a strong tough guy you can get panic attacks.

 

[SimpleSins]

It goes from bad to worse. So now, not just have people suggested that it is related to past cigarette use, we now have a doctor poster diagnosing the OP with a DSM-IV psychiatric disorder.

By the criteria you self-proclaimed medical experts have set up, it will be difficult if not impossible to prove a causative link to vaping. After all, 99% of the people using ecigs have smoked cigarettes so no matter the symptom, no matter that they never had it before, the Faux Physicians can say it was related to cigarettes. Using your standards, there really is no need for the feds to ever pull a drug from market because the liver dysfunction caused by Drug A is probably linked to the fact that when they were 23 they once drank a fifth of liquor in a weekend. With your standards, the heart valves that sprung leaks was not the fault of shoddy manufacturing practice, but rather the fact that the patient's native anatomy was so weak it couldn't hold the sutures properly. And, as you've now proven, the no-fail mental illness causing everything. This must be a medical and marketing miracle because I did know we could still produce a quasi-consumable product that contained absolutely no risks to our health. I mean, really, based on your extensive research, I don't know why people are even bothered about letting the under-18 set use them, since apparently they're no more dangerous than a pixie stick, and anybody who says otherwise is obviously ready to be 5150'd for their psychotic break in progress.

 

[rayneinspain]

It goes from bad to worse. So now, not just have people suggested that it is related to past cigarette use, we now have a doctor poster diagnosing the OP with a DSM-IV psychiatric disorder.

By the criteria you self-proclaimed medical experts have set up, it will be difficult if not impossible to prove a causative link to vaping. After all, 99% of the people using ecigs have smoked cigarettes so no matter the symptom, no matter that they never had it before, the Faux Physicians can say it was related to cigarettes. Using your standards, there really is no need for the feds to ever pull a drug from market because the liver dysfunction caused by Drug A is probably linked to the fact that when they were 23 they once drank a fifth of liquor in a weekend. With your standards, the heart valves that sprung leaks was not the fault of shoddy manufacturing practice, but rather the fact that the patient's native anatomy was so weak it couldn't hold the sutures properly. And, as you've now proven, the no-fail mental illness causing everything. This must be a medical and marketing miracle because I did know we could still produce a quasi-consumable product that contained absolutely no risks to our health. I mean, really, based on your extensive research, I don't know why people are even bothered about letting the under-18 set use them, since apparently they're no more dangerous than a pixie stick, and anybody who says otherwise is obviously ready to be 5150'd for their psychotic break in progress.

Seriously, what is your problem?

Is EVERYONE who disagrees with you deserving of abuse and derision?

Hate to break it to ya, but some of us have worked in the medical field for a very long time and take issue with your insults.

If the OP wants to quit, fantastic.

So tell me, if the FDA starts to make claims about vaping without scientific basis, will you defend them as rabidly and be just as offensive to everyone who disagrees or asks for testing?

Will be a pleasure to click Ignore.

 

[Sainted_S]

This is getting entirely out of hand and is really just spinning some wheels that aren't going anywhere. The symptoms the OP had could be caused by vaping, pre-existing conditions or panic attacks. No one here knows or can say conclusively what was causing the OP's problems. The only way we could feel somewhat reassured is if the OP posted an update after seeing a physician.

I support being open to possible health concerns, but also to have some medical backup when posting that vaping caused a problem. I'm also for free discourse to those that are having those problems without all the fingerpointing and snide comments on both "sides."

We are all adults and most of us have been inhaling lethal chemicals for years. This is not to say that any health concerns that may be vaping related are inconsequential or should just be ignored for the greater good. Nor does it mean that we shouldn't be concerned. It means that we should have an informed choice and that posters that are having problems should be able to post without getting alot of grief.

 

[rothenbj]

"Actually, I CAN and WILL blame vaping for it! It is no secret in the vaping community, that respiratory problems, and cramping DO happen to many vapers" Simple, is this the Faux Physician's diagnosis that has you so worked up?

 

[GoodDog]

Nobody is saying vaping isn't safer than smoking but I agree with SS that blaming symptoms on a mental health problem is dismissive and the same as telling someone they have no grounds for posting their symptoms. This "fight" has been going on for awhile and both sides have valid points. It's similar to people posting a negative review and the fans of a beloved supplier coming to their defense by belittling the poster. It makes members not want to post their experiences.

All I see being said here is let people talk about their experiences without discrediting or dismissing their feelings. No one has said vaping isn't safer just that we don't yet know what affects the ingredients such as the flavorings will have on our lungs... so let's talk about it in a non-combative way and not make the OPs feel belittled by those with long posts that spin any complaint that makes e-cigs "look" bad.

I don't understand why you think it's okay to attack SS for her posts but not okay to object to Kristen's??

 

[Sainted_S]

In all honesty I think Kristen got raked over the coals in this thread as well as the OP. I think in her eagerness to promote a safer alternative to analogs she was a bit more vocal than some but her posts are questioning whether the OP had taken into account other side-effects that were related to quitting analogs, dehydration, pre-existing conditions... I think this is something that we must question ourselves as well when a poster does post health problems without having consulted a medical professional beforehand. I think the division in the thread occured early on when the OP was called "stoopid" and it just got more and more polarized as time went on.

 

[rayneinspain]

Nobody is saying vaping isn't safer than smoking but I agree with SS that blaming symptoms on a mental health problem is dismissive and the same as telling someone they have no grounds for posting their symptoms. This "fight" has been going on for awhile and both sides have valid points. It's similar to people posting a negative review and the fans of a beloved supplier coming to their defense by belittling the poster. It makes members not want to post their experiences.

All I see being said here is let people talk about their experiences without discrediting or dismissing their feelings. No one has said vaping isn't safer just that we don't yet know what affects the ingredients such as the flavorings will have on our lungs... so let's talk about it in a non-combative way and not make the OPs feel belittled by those with long posts that spin any complaint that makes e-cigs "look" bad.

I don't understand why you think it's okay to attack SS for her posts but not okay to object to Kristen's??

The fanboi behavior you speak of is not limited to e-juice. The same poster you are criticising me for taking issue with has a track record of attacking others in the same offensive manner. It is the tone I take issue with, along with the personal attacks.

If there is something inherently dangerous about e-cigs as a whole, then we as a community deserve to know the whole truth without reservation. Yes, we do need to share symptoms...but for all we know, not all symptoms are necessarily a result of our vaping (or are a result of dehydration after ignoring multiple suggestions by other vapers to keep hydrated).

What I see on so many threads is not always a systematic approach to finding the truth, especially when people suffer symptoms and don't follow through with medical treatment and/or assessment. There could be something wrong with a particular vendor on the one hand....or some other underlying medical condition that the person has now chosen to dismissively attribute to vaping.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but what is your definition of a 'long post', and is there an ECF rule against them?

Thank you.

 

[Sdh]

Their is risk involved with vaping as well as anything else one may do. Thanks to all who knows that vaping could present with some risk. I am not knocking e-vaporizers. I do know that in my job as I hand out a new medication prescribed by a medical doctor I and the patient are looking for side/adverse effects from that particular medication. Sometimes the patient presents with no known side effect and everything is great.

However, on the other hand a patient reports a side effect. As a nurse one monitors it. Do I dare say the patient is wrong. Heck no. Their potential side/adverse effects belong to them. I can only monitor and call the md to d/c that drug or obtain a different one. Do I blame the patient..heck no. Do I blame their other diagnosis...no.

I do believe vaping is safer than cigarettes. However, I do believe in the many people who have had adverse effects from them.

 

[GoodDog]

If you have read any of Kristen's other posts in support of e-cigs you can well take the leap to understand what I mean. We get that she is in a position that offers her the room to post against the antis but we're not that group.

I get defensive and I'm sure others do as well when someone talented with words posts responses and members attack not understanding the point. Some just respond based on thinking there are two groups fighting and they have picked sides. I see it as one group in defense of anything e-cig and one in defense of members' right to express their concerns. That's all! No conspiracy. I think SS is talented at expressing herself and that upsets some people, but maybe step back and look at the whole picture.

 

[tdh]

I agree with SS that blaming symptoms on a mental health problem is dismissive and the same as telling someone they have no grounds for posting their symptoms.

The only thing that has been blamed for the symptoms is vaping. Suggesting a possibility when someone refuses to seek medical attention is not dismissive; it is encouraging. Assuming that these symptoms must be blamed on vaping is not only dismissive but potentially dangerous. Nobody has claimed that the symptoms were not caused by vaping. Several people have suggested that there are other possibilities and that a doctor visit would help to eliminate other possible causes.

Nobody has said that the OP (or others) should not bring their concerns to the forum. Asking someone to either establish causality or, if they chose not to, to refrain from claiming causality does not in any way belittle their issue. Blindly agreeing that there could only be one cause, on the other hand, belittles the symptoms of what could be a serious medical problem.

For example, if I claimed that because my dog died when I switched to vaping, vaping must be the cause, someone would suggest that perhaps there are other causes. If I argued that because my dog never came back to life while I was vaping, but I got another dog after quitting, then vaping must conclusively be the cause, you would probably think that I am crazy. If I did so, I would hope that people would suggest more rational explanations and politely express their condolences. Ideally, I would hope that the community could lead me to identifying the cause of death of my dog (perhaps with the help of a veterinary professional). It would really suck if there was an environmental issue that kills yet another dog a few months later. On the other hand, if it turns out that the dog had a lethal reaction to second-hand pg, then I might decide to quit vaping... and I would hope for support from the community in doing so.

Edit: I don't mean to trivialize the OP's concerns or to imply that they are not likely a result of vaping. There are a lot of reports of similar symptoms but (as far as I have seen) no reports of dead dogs, so the OP's assertion is far more valid than my hypothetical claim. The same logic applies, though.(end edit)

The op has my support in quitting regardless of reason. Nobody has my support for stating that any particular symptom must be the result of a particular act without very good reason.

I don't understand why you think it's okay to attack SS for her posts but not okay to object to Kristen's??

DId someone attack SS or simply object to something he said. Perhaps if SS didn't try to turn a valid point into a grotesque straw man, then nobody would object. Can you seriously compare a suggestion that a causal link has not been established to a personal insult.


It would be nice if people would refrain from personal insults and attempted censorship. Two things that can easily prevent censorship are deliberate misinterpretation of what someone says and telling someone to exit the discussion. This has been done repeatedly, and those responsible should be ashamed of their actions.

Frankly, this discussion makes me feel ill. It feels like watching Fox News. I hope that I am done with it.

 

[tdh]

I have no doubt that some will have adverse effects from vaping, if that is the case then just move on.

I disagree. I think that it is important to know who has adverse reactions and why. There could even be a link between people who can't vape and the long term drawbacks that vaping will have on all of us. Sweeping the symptoms under a rug, regardless of whether it is a "caused by vaping" or a "not caused by vaping" rug, is not nearly as productive as identifying a cause.

 

[rayneinspain]

If you have read any of Kristen's other posts in support of e-cigs you can well take the leap to understand what I mean. We get that she is in a position that offers her the room to post against the antis but we're not that group.

I get defensive and I'm sure others do as well when someone talented with words posts responses and members attack not understanding the point. Some just respond based on thinking there are two groups fighting and they have picked sides. I see it as one group in defense of anything e-cig and one in defense of members' right to express their concerns. That's all! No conspiracy. I think SS is talented at expressing herself and that upsets some people, but maybe step back and look at the whole picture.

Well, I think we may need to agree to disagree. There have been posts by both of them I have agreed with and others I have disagreed with. It's not the perceived talent or lack thereof, it's the underlying message and the style in which the posts are delivered that matters to me.

Back to the subject of this thread, I would hope that anyone experiencing troublesome symptoms (whether or not they think are related to vaping) should at least have them checked out by a doctor to rule out something truly emergent.

My concern is the person stating their health has changed. I couldn't care less as to the cause, but I do think it is important to find out definitively and not just guess...especially when the person in question states it has gone on for several months.

I would still like to know to what length you deem posts to be too long, and if it makes any difference as to the message contained within them. Thank you.

 

[Sainted_S]

If you have read any of Kristen's other posts in support of e-cigs you can well take the leap to understand what I mean. We get that she is in a position that offers her the room to post against the antis but we're not that group.

I get defensive and I'm sure others do as well when someone talented with words posts responses and members attack not understanding the point. Some just respond based on thinking there are two groups fighting and they have picked sides. I see it as one group in defense of anything e-cig and one in defense of members' right to express their concerns. That's all! No conspiracy. I think SS is talented at expressing herself and that upsets some people, but maybe step back and look at the whole picture.

I was just addressing Kristin's comments in this thread--they were reasonable and in this thread I think she did get criticized unfairly. I'm not commenting about previous threads, only this one. I know that sometimes the concerns of posters are shouted down. I just think in this thread that it was polarized early on by comments to the OP that were uncalled for and "stoopid," and it created division. I don't think any poster should be called "stoopid," yeah, that insulting comment to the OP really bothered me, it was rude and didn't help the thread at all. I think we all feel that concerns of posters should be listened to and when there is no medical backup, we need to evaluate for ourselves and ask questions of the OP to determine for ourselves whether we should take whatever risks are out there and whether they outweigh the harm compared to analogs. I agree that posters should be able to post without getting their posts attacked and their concerns discounted, but I believe in this thread that it did degrade into a defense of vaping vs a defense of the OP, which should not happen. We should be able to take the OP's concerns and evaluate them for ourselves.

 

[LynGBH]

Aside from the not being able to breath properly, i have experienced terrible muscle cramping, pain in my lower kidney area, as well as periodic hot flashes where my face feels like it is on fire! No, i havent gone to the doctor yet for the above.:

I've experienced these same symptoms...not to mention fluid retention/edema, since I started vaping.

Please don't let anyone intimidate you into not speaking up about it.

 

[PlanetScribbles]

I think that many people see vaping as some miracle, harmless replacement for smoking. It isn't. True, it replaces smoking with something that logically has to be saf-er than smoking. Many safer alternatives are not 100% safe, but are merely less harmful.
I don't take issue with the OP at all, if he/she is having an adverse reaction to vaping then they should stop immediately. Maybe it isn't vaping related at all. Only a doctor could say that with any certainty. But to put it into perspective, for every one person who has an aversion to vaping, many don't. The same could be said for chantix, aspirin, paracetamol, and many other pharmaceutical items.
I just don't want to see some BS opportunist article titled "Vaping causes more harm then good - a first hand account" taken verbatim from an account of one single experience.

 

[uba egar320]

Chantix, that's a mind trip right there lol. They should sell that stuff at dead concerts. If you've never had a truly frightening, ultra-realistic, wake up in the middle of the night thrashing in horror nightmare I highly suggest it lol.

 

[Kate51]

I see something happening in this thread that is more than disturbing, it's downright disgusting.
To advocate for the OP is one thing, but his argument against e-cigs was highly suspect. I really think he does have some issues to work through, but he should be seeking some professional help. Theories just don't hold much water, and self-diagnosis is very dangerous.
But to treat one of our best resident advocates for smoking alternatives with such vitreol is just uncalled for.
I just really hope the OP has checked out a few things he may not know about OTC inhalers and self-medicating. Which is why most of us ended up here on ECF in the first place!

Primatene Mist Side Effects | Drugs.com

OP may be causing his own symptoms!

I have done my duty in researching the use of e-cigs, and after 44 years of heavy smoking I don't think anyone ever questioned Big Tobacco with such depth of purpose. E-cigs saved my life by helping me quit smoking in a way I could work through, even with all the downsides, and came out a winner from day one. Lucky me!
There is massive data both tested and experience-based to advocate for e-cigs. That happens to be one of the highest aims of ECF, I suggest some of you should take some time and re-think your attitudes. Kudos to those who stand in support of e-cig advocacy. Whether it works for you or not.
Smokers do have more choices than quitting or dying.

 

[GregH]

Very well said, Kate! You echo my sentiments exactly.