Vaping needs a lobby in DC. Would you contribute?
- Thread starter Hans Wermhat
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I liked you post not because I care about your Political Affiliations. Those are of No Concerns to me.
But because I'm am Not a Single Issue Voter either.
I support this idea and I have no problems putting my money where my mouth is, but...and I'm not trying to be nihilistic just pragmatic, but $3B sounds like a lot until you realize that just the Philip Morris part of the Altria Group is worth $80B. Is vaping big enough to actually have effective lobbyists? On the other hand, we have to start some time and now is better than later.
A better question would be how much $ does PM spend lining the pockets of politicians. That's the number that matters.
A lobbyist will only have value if the lobbyist comes loaded with cash. Cash is the only thing a politician understands and the only thing a politician will react to. Advertisements and information are worthless, politicians don't care about facts, they care about re-election - in other words, campaign contributions.
The one organization that does this and does this well is ..... shame we can't talk about it because their model would be a perfect one for our fight. Having said that I would donate to a vaping organization just like I do the other one.
If there were lobbyists how would they lobby?
Would they argue the goodness of vaping by comparing it to the disease causing horribleness of cigarettes? Would they fight against age limits? Would they fight against vaping bans in public areas or indoors? Would they oppose all regulations, or accept "reasonable" regulations? Where would they stand on hybrid mechs? Would they adopt an angry or conciliatory tone? Whose PC would they adhere to?
Truth is any possible lobbying effort would ignite the ire of some segment of the vaping collective, this is on display every day here in the reactions to assorted bloggers. And most vapers likely don't even have a detailed position, other than please don't take our vapes away.
Lobbyists have to have a coherent consistent position to be effective. That's only likely to come from some source with an agreed position, like a vendor association. Someone has to hire the lobbyist and give them instructions on what to do.
Would they argue the goodness of vaping by comparing it to the disease causing horribleness of cigarettes? Would they fight against age limits? Would they fight against vaping bans in public areas or indoors? Would they oppose all regulations, or accept "reasonable" regulations? Where would they stand on hybrid mechs? Would they adopt an angry or conciliatory tone? Whose PC would they adhere to?
Truth is any possible lobbying effort would ignite the ire of some segment of the vaping collective, this is on display every day here in the reactions to assorted bloggers. And most vapers likely don't even have a detailed position, other than please don't take our vapes away.
Lobbyists have to have a coherent consistent position to be effective. That's only likely to come from some source with an agreed position, like a vendor association. Someone has to hire the lobbyist and give them instructions on what to do.
In a perfect world we wouldn't have to sink down to the level of those that pay under the table to get their position heard.
In a perfect world "the powers that be" would care about what is best for those that have put and keep them in power without having to give them a pocket full of money.
In a perfect world we wouldn't have to fight those same folks, to keep what we consider something that will allow us to put combustible tobacco behind us and keep it there, without giving them a bucket full of money.
Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world
And sadly I think it is to late to attempt to collect the train loads of money it would take to buy their good will.
I don't know what the answer is but I am afraid that ship has sailed. It left the port the first time the FDA had ship loads of supplies seized by customs. They had their hand slapped and after that they dug in their heals and decided they would have their way.
The bottom line is. BT, BP, and BG are losing money. BP and BT have train loads of money to pass out to BG and have had the FDA in their pockets for a very long time. There is no way we can fight them with money because they have way to much of it and they have to many willing folks that will do whatever it takes to keep the money rolling in.
I sign all the petitions and answer all call to actions. I don't know if my tiny voice will be heard but if we don't all do at least this much we surly will not be heard. I was quiet while smoking was being demonized. I refuse to be quiet this time !!!!!!!
This is a good idea Hans but I am afraid it is just to little to late
In a perfect world "the powers that be" would care about what is best for those that have put and keep them in power without having to give them a pocket full of money.
In a perfect world we wouldn't have to fight those same folks, to keep what we consider something that will allow us to put combustible tobacco behind us and keep it there, without giving them a bucket full of money.
Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world
And sadly I think it is to late to attempt to collect the train loads of money it would take to buy their good will. I don't know what the answer is but I am afraid that ship has sailed. It left the port the first time the FDA had ship loads of supplies seized by customs. They had their hand slapped and after that they dug in their heals and decided they would have their way.
The bottom line is. BT, BP, and BG are losing money. BP and BT have train loads of money to pass out to BG and have had the FDA in their pockets for a very long time. There is no way we can fight them with money because they have way to much of it and they have to many willing folks that will do whatever it takes to keep the money rolling in.
I sign all the petitions and answer all call to actions. I don't know if my tiny voice will be heard but if we don't all do at least this much we surly will not be heard. I was quiet while smoking was being demonized. I refuse to be quiet this time !!!!!!!
This is a good idea Hans but I am afraid it is just to little to late
You are turning it upside down.We, the vapers, spent more than $2.2B in 2014 on gear, juice, and various vaping supplies. That's a pair of 2's with EIGHT ZEROS behind it! The estimates for what we will have spent by the end of 2015 are even higher. Imagine if a fraction of that money was spent raising awareness and telling the truth about vaping to counter the lies and negative propaganda being spread by BT, BP, and others. Imagine if a portion of that was used to help prevent new legislation that would cripple if not condemn the industry. How much would you be willing to contribute to help keep the government from regulating vaping out of existence? Would you whip out the checkbook once a year and donate $100 or $1000 of the money you are saving by vaping instead of smoking? I'm guessing probably not or there would be no need for me to post this. What if you could donate from a different angle? What if it was easy and painless? What if someone else did it for you? Would you be game?
My idea is this. Every time we purchase something through a PARTICIPATING online shop or B&M, they collect a 1% mandatory donation. They charge 1 penny for every dollar (pre-tax) we spend, and give that to a non-profit organization whose sole purpose is to spread the GOOD word about vaping. Not just on a website you have to visit on your own, but on TV, in magazines, on the radio, on the front steps of the White House and houses of congress. Don't just passively talk, but get in peoples faces and make them listen! There are several organizations out there already, but I haven't seen one try this approach yet. In return for participating, stores would get free advertising via the organization. The organization would get tons of money. And we would get a voice loud enough to be heard over the millions and millions of dollars BT, BP, and our own government are throwing at the campaign against us.
There are millions of us just here in the US who vape. I see us all here on ECF witching and moaning every day. Signing petitions, reading articles, sharing info, etc... But I don't see anyone standing on a mountain top screaming into a bullhorn. The new commercial for "abilionlives" is the first thing I've seen from an industry that has been around for more than a decade now. We need a collective voice with dollars to throw around.
My question is this: Would a store that made you donate 50 cents when you bought a $50 mod be a turn off to you? Would you see the "fee" on your bill and be peeved. Would you swear to never shop there again? Would you see it and be happy to participate? Would you LOOK FOR participating vendors when you went shopping? What do you think? It would be a selling point for me. I would look for participating vendors and would probably pay a few extra bucks if they didn't have the best price just to help us all out. Share your thoughts, folks!
If B&M and online shops are not doing it right now, they deserve to disappear. They are not worthy their business.
Stockpile and smile.
Far better spending your time and money on stock piling supplies to be self sufficient and let this blow over. No prohibition methods have ever been permanent or even sustainable.
Mick is absolutely right vapers are too splintered as a group to even agree a coherent plan much less support it and at this late stage the concessions we would have to give would have at least two groups up in arms. Personally I in favour of a minimum age of 18, I would support quality controls on liquid, I'd support some form of practical quality standard on hardware and if it were the only way to keep vaping I'd support no mech mods. That's as far as I'd like regulation to go but I realise we'd also have to accept a level of taxation as well not the silly amounts we're seeing in some places but a tax none the less, vaping has taken money out of governments pockets we won't stand a chance unless we're prepared to put some money back in.
No. Additional taxation is unacceptable.
If I am growing my own tomatoes and potatoes, I am "taking money out of governments pocket" by not paying sales tax on my consumed vegetables. Should I compensate government?
There you go the reason lobbying will not work, no one likes the idea but if we were to stand a chance we would have to offer some things we don't like in order to keep the majority of what we do like and anyone that thinks you can take money out of government and propose something that doesn't put some back in and get what you want clearly hasn't dealt too much with modern politics.
Modern politics has proven that it doesn't matter how much you put in. They will spend more than they take in, then look for new ways to recoup it after the money is spent.
You'd be willing to offer mechanical mods as a 'sacrificial lamb'? Why? Because you don't happen to use them?
No thanks. Not a dime.
People keep talking about money, but votes are king.
Money is only a means to votes.
Term limits would go a long way in resolving that situation, but I digress...
If we could make them worry more about votes, that would be a better use of money.
And one way to do that is with a massive attack/educational campaign.
I don't know how effective such an effort would be though.
Just thinking out loud here.
Actually Rule I own a Dimitri mech and love it so guess that blows that theory out the water, lobbying just isn't going to work for reasons already given. At this stage best we can do is stockpile enough to get us through the idiot period and hope common sense prevails sooner rather then later.
Would DEFINITELY support this movement. I would even donate straight to the lobbyist when I could (poor college student ATM) to keep these on the market.
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