So because you don't agree with a tax rate that you don't even know, you say my vote doesn't count at all?
Vapocolypse
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So because you don't agree with a tax rate that you don't even know, you say my vote doesn't count at all?
It must be nice to be able to predict the future with such certainty.
Even if you're confident that's all that will happen, do an economic analysis. The all-in cost of my freezer (electricity plus replacement every 10 years) is under $50/year. I might go through $50 worth of untaxed nicotine per year (I've stocked the good stuff!). Throw in another $50 for incidentals like VG, PG, flavorings, batteries, etc and I can vape for the rest of my life at an all-in cost of $150 a year.
I have no idea what the tax rates on e-liquid and/or nic base will be, say, five years from now, but I'm pretty sure that those who haven't stocked up won't be vaping for $150 a year.
Thank you for letting me know my 60 year old .... apparently doesn't know anything.
I'll archive that for future reference.
I do not assume the government has unlimited lawmaking and enforcement powers,
yet. As far as e-cigarette are concerned however the FDA has already been granted
authority to regulate them. How they regulate them and how far the regulations will
go is the question. Having perused the leaked PMTA along with other available
literature I have come to the conclusion we are not on a kiddie ride here.
DIY may very well get off lightly compared to the commercial sector.
Then again we may not be so lucky. The PMTA is for manufacturers selling ENDS
however, I am not aware of of any legal clause that would exempt the FDA from
asserting the same strict criteria to DIY. I'm sure they are confident they pretty much
have a greenlight. There has been no serious attempt from Congress to call them
out Other than the bill to change the Grandfather date. That seems to be in limbo.
I myself would advise us vapers to be ready for anything including the possibility
that our precious stockpiles do not become contraband or are restricted to prescribed
quantities for juice. Homemade ENDS may become contraband or be regulated to
the point of requiring manufacturing standards unavailable to the average person.
I am not saying this will happen. I am saying don't be surprised if it does. There is
absolutly nothing saying they can't if that's the route they choose to take.
This for
Yes,you can make your own firearms for personal use. There are requirements for lengths
for rifles,minimum barrel and stock.No more than one hand grip for pistols and a few
other things. nothing really prohibitive though.
Regards
Mike
I call em as I see em.
The FDA cannot decide what is contraband. That's not their dept.
They don't have that authority.
In the USA, federal laws are enacted only by congressional vote.
You should know this very well.
You really seem to not understand how your government works.
It would behoove you to educate yourself, if you want to intelligently continue this conversation, or you can just keep making stuff up as you go along and I'll keep correcting you with facts.
It is very obvious, based on the many state and local attempts to tax vaping, that the objective is to extract the same amount of tax from vapers that they got when they smoked. And the first tax is the least. The first federal income tax topped out at 10%. Twenty years later it was 90%. The average cigarette tax is probably $3/pack. What was the first cig tax per pack? The first vape taxes will be just proof of concept, like a 10% top income tax rate. And the FDA apparently has enough power right now, to destroy the industry via deeming, and congress has yet to actually legislate anything. And they will get around to it, and when they do, they will not come our rescue by "fighting the man". They are the man. And they appear to be quite content to allow the FDA's overreach with deeming. They are now actively legislating by inaction. That's how the system works now, and how the executive branch is effectively allowed to legislate.So because you don't agree with a tax rate that you don't even know, you say my vote doesn't count at all?
Your vote is meaningless unless you get enough like minded individuals to change elections or at least change the political winds. Given the general public's acceptance of all the gov't sponsored vape hate propaganda, you have little or no hope. I appreciate your idealism but as I said, send me a memo when you affect all the change you claim to be capable of.
I've already changed local and state law.
Every vote counts. Mine did.
I don't fear the unknown, and "assuming" doesn't make you right.
State and local laws have zero to do with the FDA and upcoming regulations. That's on you and your local voters.
You elected them after all.... Or maybe not if you didn't bother to vote.
The FDA doesn't have the authority to tax anything.
That, again lies with congress, who are elected by......votes.
Good lord, are this many people really unaware of how your Goverment works?
No wonder we are in this mess.
My point is the only thing for diyers that they can possibly legislate to death is nicotine. You have no faith in the ability of people to adapt to get around laws. They could also get into a shooting war with china... you prepped for that too? Or how about when emissions came around and killed all power... oh wait my minivan makes more power than most musclecars did... i have faith in the proven ability of humans to adapt and overcome obstacles. That is all.It must be nice to be able to predict the future with such certainty.
Even if you're confident that's all that will happen, do an economic analysis. The all-in cost of my freezer (electricity plus replacement every 10 years) is under $50/year. I might go through $50 worth of untaxed nicotine per year (I've stocked the good stuff!). Throw in another $50 for incidentals like VG, PG, flavorings, batteries, etc and I can vape for the rest of my life at an all-in cost of $150 a year.
I have no idea what the tax rates on e-liquid and/or nic base will be, say, five years from now, but I'm pretty sure that those who haven't stocked up won't be vaping for $150 a year.
Sigh. I said nothing about the FDA taxing vaping. The congress will take care of that in due time. And what exactly have you accomplished, in regards to vaping, in what state and local governments???I've already changed local and state law.
Every vote counts. Mine did.
I don't fear the unknown, and "assuming" doesn't make you right.
State and local laws have zero to do with the FDA and upcoming regulations. That's on you and your local voters.
You elected them after all.... Or maybe not if you didn't bother to vote.
The FDA doesn't have the authority to tax anything.
That, again lies with congress, who are elected by......votes.
Good lord, are this many people really unaware of how your Goverment works?
No wonder we are in this mess.
The USA currently is warehousing, in prisons, roughly two million people who mostly tried to adapt and get around certain laws restricting products (some of which are mostly harmless, just like nic) we can't even talk about here. I'm always amazed how some so casually appear to rely on the black market. And I'm not saying the gov't will go that far with nicotine. I just know there is precedent for them doing so if they so desire. And that same gov't is in the process of spending around a billion dollars on junk science to get the general population to accept whatever they decide to do. I don't personally attempt to predict the future, I just see and observe and as a result stockpile nicotine and vape specific hardware.
Vaping?
Nothing. That's not what I said or my point.
I have changed local ordinances to bring in industry, served on city council, and worked with state legislators to assist the children's hospital acquire medicine.
Due to ECFs terms of use I can't really elaborate on details, but I'm no stranger to the political machine.
I'm a bad example for you.
I'm not your typical citizen. I'm active in my community, I vote, and I pay attention.
Lumping me in is a fail.
Getting funding for a children's hospital is light years away from dealing with the vaping problem. I'm out of this increasingly nonsensical discussion. Have a great day.Vaping?
Nothing. That's not what I said or my point.
I have changed local ordinances to bring in industry, served on city council, and worked with state legislators to assist the children's hospital acquire medicine.
Due to ECFs terms of use I can't really elaborate on details, but I'm no stranger to the political machine.
I'm a bad example for you.
I'm not your typical citizen. I'm active in my community, I vote, and I pay attention.
Lumping me in is a fail.
Yup, which is why prudent people insulate themselves from that possibility.
I do too, but I prefer to take the path of least resistance, discomfort, and expense.
It wasn't funding.
It was approval by the state for a treatment program. It took 4 years.
Yes, your vote makes a difference.
Without it, lawmakers don't have jobs.
Your vote is your voice, and your right.
Rights are like muscles.
If you don't exercise them you will lose them.
Well if the don't regulate ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems)
we will be alright. I had thought in the governments eyes ENDS as
and or soon will be deemed 'tobacco products'. Have they reversed their thinking
on this? If you take all the hardware parts assembled as a vaporizer with
juice in the tank ready to go in the eyes of the FDA its all just one glorified
cigarette. I believe they intend to treat it as such and more. I hope they
do not go this far but, nothing currently out there indicates to me they
won't or couldn't.
Regards
Mike
Well if the don't regulate ENDS (Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems)
we will be alright. I had thought in the governments eyes ENDS as
and or soon will be deemed 'tobacco products'. Have they reversed their thinking
on this? If you take all the hardware parts assembled as a vaporizer with
juice in the tank ready to go in the eyes of the FDA its all just one glorified
cigarette. I believe they intend to treat it as such and more. I hope they
do not go this far but, nothing currently out there indicates to me they
won't or couldn't.
Regards
Mike
The FDA can certainly stop you from buying one.
And they can regulate sales of them.
And if they want, they can end vaping by banning liquid nicotine.
They DO have that authority.
They cannot stop anyone from building a mod or vaping (though you will still need to source nic), because they do not have that authority.
If you don't understand your enemy, you will always lose the fight.
@Bad Ninja I hope your right. Tell me then,what is all the discussion concerning
intended use about?
Regards
Mike
intended use about?
Regards
Mike
It's about how it's presented and sold.
There will be no more claims of being healthier or safer than smoking, or even claims that it will help stop addiction to cigarettes.
Yes I studied government also, & yes I know where bills, laws ,regulations differ from each other. I know how our government is supposed to work. I do not trust it to work that way at all. If it worked the way it should, FEMA would not be in possesion of billions of rounds of ammunition, the border patrol would not be blocked from arresting & deporting illeagle aliens, Obama could not threaten gun ownership by private citizens with an exutive order.
The government will do whatever they want & worry about how to placate the people later. Probably give them a new Obama phone.
The government will do whatever they want & worry about how to placate the people later. Probably give them a new Obama phone.
Guns = 2nd Ammendment
Nicotine = They ought to write an Ammendment..
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