Virginia smoking ban dec. 1 !!!!!!!!

[novasteve]

Based on the letter of the law, Caddy's cannot be fined. It is providing separate, ventilated rooms for smokers (inside) and non-smokers (outside). Nobody said the non-smokers won't be allowed in the smoking room. Smokers are generally very welcoming, easy going people. Its the anti-smoking nazis that created the problem in the first place.

BTW, to those who object, someone should explain a few things. First, if it wasn't for tobacco nobody--including Caddy's--would be here. The settlers were planning to go home and announce "there is no gold" about the time John Rolf planted some Spanish tobacco seeds in good ole Virginia red clay--our nation was born.

Second, according to Virginia history, about a hundred years later, the King of England started telling people what they should do (and the taxes they could pay while they were at it) and a Virginian, Patrick Henry, popped up and said "Give me liberty or give me death" -- our country was born.

Third, most of those anti-smoke/vape activists are not from Virginia! If they can't stand the smoke they should get the heck out of the . . .

That's why I cannot stand these control freaks. I have NO problem with smoking banned in restaurants, though I would prefer it be the choice of the owners. However, why not allow smokers to go to a smoking bar? Everyone smokes there. If those are banned, then it's about protecting smokers from themselves, that's being a a controlling nanny state, and if you protect smokers from themselves, what's to stop them from banning red meat or fried food if it's about protecting people from themselves?

If smokers want to smoke in a bar, let them have a smoking bar. No non smoker would go anywhere near it. We are adults, not children.

 

[novasteve]

Oh, for those of you who aren't aware, in the 2007 energy bill, from a democrat controlled congress, a little known provision, begins the phasing out of incandescent light bulbs. So starting in 2012, for a period of a few years, your ability to buy incandescent light bulbs will become smaller and smaller until they are totally banned. So you are going to be forced to use CFLs, you will not have the choice of using what kind of bulb you want to. This is because of liberals, not centerists, conservatives, libertarians, or whatever. But LIBERALS. So see, you are losing your freedoms, they are banning things they don't like. We all use incandescents, while CFLs use less electricity, they don't produce they same type of light, they emit Hg if broken, and you seriously damage them by shutting them off within 15 minutes of turning them on.

It's lights out for traditional light bulbs - USATODAY.com

Another freedom you've lost. Congrats.

 

[oldlady]

Sooner or later this garbage is going to pop up and bite the control freaks in the .....

Either we are going to find something they like to ban--like labor unions, jogging or meddling in other people's affairs--or there will be a revolution.

 

[novasteve]

Sooner or later this garbage is going to pop up and bite the control freaks in the .....

Either we are going to find something they like to ban--like labor unions, jogging or meddling in other people's affairs--or there will be a revolution.

Nope, they'll say it's a human right and use the courts... I don't think what you say will happen, because people are having their rights pecked away, and they still won't do anything. Honestly, if you can ban smoking in bars, then there's no reason why you shouldn't ban red meat. They are both unhealthy to the person consuming them. Maybe one day the libs will ban red meat. I've heard plenty of environmental reasons for doing it, given the amount of methane cows produce, how much grass they eat, etc...

They've already banned incandescent light bulbs...

 

[Storyspinr]

There is another bar/restaurant in the Richmond area which is building a separate outdoor patio for nonsmokers (not sure of the name...Republic, maybe?). If Caddy's is doing that (I had heard she was only refusing to remove ashtrays because 90% of her patrons smoke), then perhaps it's a pleasant trend. Of course, Virginia does not have stand-alone bars, so any bar is part of a restaurant and subject to the ban. The General Assembly at one time considered a meeting to figure out how to separate bars from restaurants, but never did so.

Based on one news report, the Health Department isn't even going to start enforcing the ban for three months to give restaurants a chance to "adapt". By that time, the anti-ban Republicans will be in charge. They will still be required to follow the law, but may not do so with much enthusiasm.

If the court tosses out the ban, the exemptions would not immediately be taken away. Instead, the law would go back to the General Assembly, where they would either have to rewrite it to meet the court's requirements, or kill it. My guess is, with the GOP controlling the 3 top offices and the House, it would die. It's a risk, but perhaps worth it if a restaurant would fight any ticket issued and take the whole thing to court.

Novasteve is exactly right on incandescent bulbs. They will be phased out in 2012, so you are forced to use the new bulbs which contain Mercury; they are considered hazardous waste and can be dangerous if you drop one and it breaks. We could sure all use a little less "government help", couldn't we?

 

[novasteve]

There is another bar/restaurant in the Richmond area which is building a separate outdoor patio for nonsmokers (not sure of the name...Republic, maybe?). If Caddy's is doing that (I had heard she was only refusing to remove ashtrays because 90% of her patrons smoke), then perhaps it's a pleasant trend. Of course, Virginia does not have stand-alone bars, so any bar is part of a restaurant and subject to the ban. The General Assembly at one time considered a meeting to figure out how to separate bars from restaurants, but never did so.

Based on one news report, the Health Department isn't even going to start enforcing the ban for three months to give restaurants a chance to "adapt". By that time, the anti-ban Republicans will be in charge. They will still be required to follow the law, but may not do so with much enthusiasm.

If the court tosses out the ban, the exemptions would not immediately be taken away. Instead, the law would go back to the General Assembly, where they would either have to rewrite it to meet the court's requirements, or kill it. My guess is, with the GOP controlling the 3 top offices and the House, it would die. It's a risk, but perhaps worth it if a restaurant would fight any ticket issued and take the whole thing to court.

Novasteve is exactly right on incandescent bulbs. They will be phased out in 2012, so you are forced to use the new bulbs which contain Mercury; they are considered hazardous waste and can be dangerous if you drop one and it breaks. We could sure all use a little less "government help", couldn't we?

Where I live, the signs up are, the ashtrays are gone, and if you tried to smoke, there would be complaints and you would be kicked out of the bar. Even when smoking was legal, people would ask you to stop smoking where I live.

 

[novasteve]

There is another bar/restaurant in the Richmond area which is building a separate outdoor patio for nonsmokers (not sure of the name...Republic, maybe?). If Caddy's is doing that (I had heard she was only refusing to remove ashtrays because 90% of her patrons smoke), then perhaps it's a pleasant trend. Of course, Virginia does not have stand-alone bars, so any bar is part of a restaurant and subject to the ban. The General Assembly at one time considered a meeting to figure out how to separate bars from restaurants, but never did so.

Based on one news report, the Health Department isn't even going to start enforcing the ban for three months to give restaurants a chance to "adapt". By that time, the anti-ban Republicans will be in charge. They will still be required to follow the law, but may not do so with much enthusiasm.

If the court tosses out the ban, the exemptions would not immediately be taken away. Instead, the law would go back to the General Assembly, where they would either have to rewrite it to meet the court's requirements, or kill it. My guess is, with the GOP controlling the 3 top offices and the House, it would die. It's a risk, but perhaps worth it if a restaurant would fight any ticket issued and take the whole thing to court.

Novasteve is exactly right on incandescent bulbs. They will be phased out in 2012, so you are forced to use the new bulbs which contain Mercury; they are considered hazardous waste and can be dangerous if you drop one and it breaks. We could sure all use a little less "government help", couldn't we?

Exactly, and who do you think was behind the banning of incandescents? Could it be liberals? They are control freaks, who ban things they don't like. I think you are being too optimistic on the smoking ban not being enforced or even challenged. I'm a lawyer, and the states are within their rights to ban pretty much anything they want, and smokers are not a protected class. I just don't like governments who exercise these powers.... I'll probbably go out on Friday and observe, but here in Arlington, there will be absolutely nobody smoking in bars given how antismoking this area always was. I walked by my former usual place and the sign was up, the ashtrays were gone, and people were smoking outside..

 

[Storyspinr]

Actually, in Virginia smokers are a protected class, to a certain extent. It is one of the states that passed a law preventing discrimination against smokers in employement. Having read part of that law, however, I think it only applies to state jobs, but could be wrong since I haven't done thorough research. There is a law firm in DC specifically looking for smokers to defend against employment discrimination. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us with the ban.....

Northern Virginia helped lead the charge for a smoking ban, so I sympathize with your plight, Novasteve. We have the same problem in Fredericksburg (too close to Nova); the ashtrays are gone, the signs are up, and we are relegated to drive-thru and carry-out. There are a couple of restaurants which have built separate smoking rooms, so will be giving them a try. There are also some restaurants/bars in Nova with smoking rooms. There is a new website - something like "Smoke Freely Virginia" (I'll check and post the correct site name here) that lists restaurants with separate smoking rooms. The website creator is looking for info on more restaurants and welcomes anyone with such info to let him know, so he can give the restaurant a free listing.

I am hoping the e cig will be approved as not violating the smoking ban, but don't feel much effort can be made in that regard until the SE/NJoy/FDA court case is settled. Of course, if they are considered "legal" to use, that would require a huge PR effort since most restaurants/bars and nonsmokers in this area have no idea what an e cig is and no doubt would panic when they saw the vapor rising....

 

[novasteve]

Actually, in Virginia smokers are a protected class, to a certain extent. It is one of the states that passed a law preventing discrimination against smokers in employement. Having read part of that law, however, I think it only applies to state jobs, but could be wrong since I haven't done thorough research. There is a law firm in DC specifically looking for smokers to defend against employment discrimination. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us with the ban.....

Northern Virginia helped lead the charge for a smoking ban, so I sympathize with your plight, Novasteve. We have the same problem in Fredericksburg (too close to Nova); the ashtrays are gone, the signs are up, and we are relegated to drive-thru and carry-out. There are a couple of restaurants which have built separate smoking rooms, so will be giving them a try. There are also some restaurants/bars in Nova with smoking rooms. There is a new website - something like "Smoke Freely Virginia" (I'll check and post the correct site name here) that lists restaurants with separate smoking rooms. The website creator is looking for info on more restaurants and welcomes anyone with such info to let him know, so he can give the restaurant a free listing.

I am hoping the e cig will be approved as not violating the smoking ban, but don't feel much effort can be made in that regard until the SE/NJoy/FDA court case is settled. Of course, if they are considered "legal" to use, that would require a huge PR effort since most restaurants/bars and nonsmokers in this area have no idea what an e cig is and no doubt would panic when they saw the vapor rising....

Wow, I'm really looking forward to that website. The only place I know of for sure here in Nova is Summers. I hear that Whitlows has one, but I was also told that i'ts just a covered patio. I wouldn't expect many options here in Nova given how liberal it is.

 

[Storyspinr]

Novasteve, try Home. If that doesn't work, try the Virgnia Smokers Alliance website and click on the "links"; scroll down through the list until you find Smoke Freely in Virginia, then click on it. That should take you to his website. He posted a notice today he's getting far more responses than he ever expected. I just glanced at his list, but think he does list Whitlow's (if it's only a patio, let him know because I think he wants restaurants that serve smokers in comfort) and I believe Summers; those may be the only two he has so far in Arlington.

 

[novasteve]

Novasteve, try Home. If that doesn't work, try the Virgnia Smokers Alliance website and click on the "links"; scroll down through the list until you find Smoke Freely in Virginia, then click on it. That should take you to his website. He posted a notice today he's getting far more responses than he ever expected. I just glanced at his list, but think he does list Whitlow's (if it's only a patio, let him know because I think he wants restaurants that serve smokers in comfort) and I believe Summers; those may be the only two he has so far in Arlington.

Thanks, wow, it only lists two. Doesn't even mention Summers, maybe summers decided to not allow smoking?

Crystal City Sports pub is nice to know that it has a smoking room.

 

[KitKit]

Just so you know in Hampton Roads today the health dept was in my local bar and told the bartender that vaping is not allowed it falls under the ban until they determine what is in the vaper.

 

[Storyspinr]

It would be interesting to know, KitKat, what the health department based their ruling on. There is nothing in the ban that even mentions e cigs; the ban is about secondhand smoke (despite it being a major fraud), not vapor, so I'm not sure they have legal footing to ban the e cig under a smoking ban. Virginia operates under the Dillon Rule, which prohibits any locality from making any law more restrictive than the statewide law. Presents an interesting question....

 

[Storyspinr]

I should add one more thing to my post, KitKat. I do not want to give the impression I think it should be challenged right now (the Hampton Roads ruling against e cigs). Things may (or may not, but we can hope) change with the new, incoming administration and the next General Assembly. I'm just interested to see they jumped to the conclusion the e cig was covered by the ban.

 

[novasteve]

I should add one more thing to my post, KitKat. I do not want to give the impression I think it should be challenged right now (the Hampton Roads ruling against e cigs). Things may (or may not, but we can hope) change with the new, incoming administration and the next General Assembly. I'm just interested to see they jumped to the conclusion the e cig was covered by the ban.

I guess they should ban hot coffee and tea, and warm foods until they figure out what is in the vapor.

 

[KitKit]

Storyspinr I have put out a number of post trying to find an answer to this! I would like to know what gives them the right to make this statement and "who" is doing the "study" to determine the harmful effects of vapor?

 

[TaketheRedPill]

it will definitely affect the bars - Calif did this some 10 years ago - the bars dried up and blew away, and as they went, so did the venues for live music, since the bars were no longer able to afford to bring in bands on scarce crowds.

Most likely you will all join in on the new California adaptation - 'man caves' and 'garage bars'.

TTRP

 

[KitKit]

So far the only study I can find is one that was done by Health New Zealand and they say second hand vapor has no harmful effects.

 

[oldlady]

Okay, that's it. We need to call for a ban against sex.

The spread of the HIV/AIDs virus clearly shows that sex is extremely hazardous to one's health and can be fatal. The disease can be spread to innocents (through contact with blood, etc). While the use of condums may help to minimize this risk, it cannot provide a guarantee. After all, don't 5 percent of condum users get pregnant?

Henceforth anyone wishing to engage in this dangerous activity should apply for FDA testing and approval at least three years in advance. Of course, approval may take longer depending on the demand.

 

[WTF D00D]

In my opinion, it should be up to the owner if he wants to allow smoking or not. It's his/her .... on the line, not the government.