Whats is the 'Maximum Vaping Amps' in Mooch's safety rating tables?

[Noahian]

It says ;
'Max pulsed current you can draw without exceeding 100 degrees in case of mod malfunction'

Isn't it the 'CDR rating' that is safe in case the is a mod malfunction ( Which i guess means that the battery is continuously discharged for a long time )..

And what does 'max pulsed current you can draw' mean? Aren't we talking about the possibility of a mod malfunction.. Isn't it continuous discharge by nature?

Or is this practically like CDR rating with a temperature treshold of 100 degrees instead of around 78?

I know i am missing something. i've read the description many times, Alas, i could not get my head around it..

 

[Tonee N]

The continuous discharge rating is for something like a flashlight, it's using the battery continously. Our devices are 'pulsed', we only push the button for approximately 2 seconds at a time.

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[Noahian]

The continuous discharge rating is for something like a flashlight, it's using the battery continously. Our devices are 'pulsed', we only push the button for approximately 2 seconds at a time.

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But it states 'in case of mode malfunction' which is basically continuous discarge as far as i know..

 

[Tonee N]

yes, incase.

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[LMS62]

For me, I would much rather error on the side of caution and go by the continuous rating versus the pulse rating of a battery.

 

[Noahian]

yes, incase.

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So if i vape for 5 minutes, than the mod malfunctions and autofires continuously with a near full battery and discharges until fully drained, how is that a safe thing.. Don't we have CDR for that..

 

[Tonee N]

For me, I would much rather error on the side of caution and go by the continuous rating versus the pulse rating of a battery.

I never go over 25 amps, have gotten close though. But I use different batteries for different devices. LG HG6 pink for my larger builds and Samsung 25r for my smaller. Even Efest purple metallic for my Freemax tanks.
But you're right, always stay on the side of not calling an ambulance.

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[Topwater Elvis]

The 100 degrees he refers to is 100c = 212f.
IMO, too hot for any cell inside a vape device.
Most folks would consider a 140f solid object placed on the back of their hand to feel fairly hot, 212f isn't something I would grab or touch with my bare hand.

CDR / continuous discharge rate is the amount of amps that can be drawn from a cell throughout the usable voltage range without exceeding a set temperature.
4.2v ~ 2.5v - 2.8v.
It is important to note battery amp drain calculations for mechanicals & regulated power devices is different.
mech; V/R=a,w
reg; W/V = a

I disagree with his MVA ratings entirely, you'll have to ask him for clarification.

Everyone has to set their own comfort zone/saftey limits for the cells we use.
I never exceed or recommend exceeding the CDR of any cell for any amount of time.

 

[Tonee N]

So if i vape for 5 minutes, than the mod malfunctions and autofires continuously with a near full battery and discharges until fully drained, how is that a safe thing.. Don't we have CDR for that..

If a mod misfires which is a possibility then it misfires and you should be aware of that before using it.

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[Noahian]

For me, I would much rather error on the side of caution and go by the continuous rating versus the pulse rating of a battery.

Pulse rating is pretty much useless.. And i may be wrong but i do not think the 'Max Vaping Amps' parameter in question is the pulse rating.. He would give some additional info in such a case.. info like 'by pulse i mean 5 secs on and 30 secs off'..

 

[Noahian]

Can it maybe mean ' This is a probably safe Amp you can go up to with a 5 secs on 30 sec off typical pulse UNLESS something stupid happens like a mod malfunction' ?

 

[SteveS45]

2 seconds? Not on my MOD's! I average around 7 seconds and can hit it until the timer shuts firing off but that is pushing it passed the point of enjoyable vaping.

 

[tj99959]

Technically there is no such thing as "pulse rating" because there is no set standard for the pulse.
So "pulse rating" and "safely" is an oxymoron.

 

[LMS62]

2 seconds? Not on my MOD's! I average around 7 seconds and can hit it until the timer shuts firing off but that is pushing it passed the point of enjoyable vaping.

Same here....I usually average roughly 5 seconds.

 

[LMS62]

If a mod misfires which is a possibility then it misfires and you should be aware of that before using it.

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How would someone know the mod will misfire prior to using it?

 

[Tonee N]

How would someone know the mod will misfire prior to using it?

it's an assumption. I assume my computer could blow up if it's overcharged. I don't turn a blind eye to what wouldn't happen but to always think of what could happen.

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[Noahian]

I do not think Mooch is making a probably dangerous statement by putting those numbers on his list. That 'Max Vaping Amps' probably has some logical background and is a useful parameter in a spesific scenario. But i could not understand what it is exactly. It's not that i need to vape at higher amps, but that i wanna know what those numbers are for..

I vape way under so called 'safe' limits. This was not a question about pushing the borders, it was about trying to understand something a knowledgable guy is stating..

 

[Tonee N]

I do not think Mooch is making a probably dangerous statement by putting those numbers on his list. That 'Max Vaping Amps' probably has some logical background and is a useful parameter in a spesific scenario. But i could not understand what it is exactly. It's not that i need to vape at higher amps, but that i wanna know what those numbers are for..

I vape way under so called 'safe' limits. This was not a question about pushing the borders, it was about trying to understanding something a knowledgable guy is stating..

And it's a great question to ask. If we don't ask questions then we're walking blind. You could contact Mooch directly. [emoji106]

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[sonicbomb]

Why bother with testing cell temperature? | E-Cigarette Forum

Tagging @Mooch in case he wants to add some more definition of MVA

 

[Mooch]

CDR is not a safety or performance limit. It is a statement about how hard you can discharge the battery every single cycle, from 4.2V down to 2.5V, without losing more than a certain amount of capacity, or gaining a certain amount of internal resistance, after a certain number of cycles. It is the "every day" level you can operate at and still get good performance and good overall battery life. The CDR has almost nothing to do with safety except that because it is chosen to ensure decent cycle life it ends up setting a discharge current level that results in a huge safety margin.

My MVA rating has nothing to do with being a pulse rating. I don't set pulse ratings.
My MVA rating is how hard you can use a battery when vaping while still giving you a good safety margin in case the mod breaks and discharges the battery continuously. Essentially, it is the highest continuous current level I recommend operating the battery at.

Since we should assume there could be an autofire situation, or that the mod might somehow break and continuously discharge the battery, we shouldn't vape at a battery discharge current level that could cause problems if the mod malfunctions, even if it is pulsed current. The MVA rating is a recommendated vaping, i.e., pulsed, current limit only because it is the continuous current limit I recommend.

You can vape at levels much higher than the MVA rating, of course, since the current is pulsed and the battery can cool between pulls. But the risk of venting goes up in case of an autofire situation or mod malfunction. Thermal runaway is essentially impossible without short-circuiting the battery though.