Who has the best 3000mAh battery? -- LG HG2 vs Samsung 30Q vs Sony VTC6 Shootout

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Aug 2, 2016.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    I have been seeing a slight drop in performance in the LG HG2's I've tested these past few months. The last time I compared the HG2 and 30Q they performed essentially the same. There were differences between them at different discharge current levels, but the differences were small.

    With the Sony VTC6 becoming more available I decided to see if the HG2's really are performing worse and compare them to the Samsung 30Q and Sony VTC6. I tested four of each, using continuous and pulsed current discharges.

    Bottom Line
    They are all close in performance to each other but the VTC6 is the winner, running at a slightly higher voltage and for slightly longer. The 30Q is a very close second place and the HG2 is third. There has definitely been a drop in performance for the HG2's since last year. They are running a few degrees-C hotter and at a slightly lower voltage. Perhaps the only cells available to vendors now are slightly lower grades? This is just conjecture though.

    Because of these test results I am changing the continuous discharge rating (CDR) of the LG HG2 from 20A to 18A. The Sony VTC6 will stay at 19A and the Samsung 30Q will stay at 20A. Why is the 30Q rated higher than the VTC6 even though the VTC6 ran at a higher voltage? Because the 30Q ran a bit cooler.

    The voltage the battery runs at, i.e., how hard it hits, doesn't determine its current rating. The rating is determined by how hard you can run the battery but still stay at a low enough temperature to allow a decent cycle life (number of charges/discharges) before the capacity drops too far and the internal resistance rises too high. The higher the temperature, the faster the battery ages and becomes damaged. Therefore, a battery that runs cooler can have a higher current rating than one that runs hotter.


    Continuous-Current Test Results
    image.jpeg


    Pulsed-Current Test Results
    image.png image.png


    Time to discharge to 3.2V at 30A pulsed
    image.png
     
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  2. Ipster

    Ipster Super Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Got some news...albeit you arent gonna like it...
    its not the batts....
    if you want a consistent read every darn time, no fails, no drop outs..
    ProVari's the only one that'll do it.
    btw tempcont.just a scam...
    ooops Im about 6000 miles across the ocean, so no need for me to start running.:lol:
     
    Foggy Road likes this.
  3. sawlight

    sawlight Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 2, 2009
    Kansas
    I have a very stupid question @Mooch, how many cycles do you run for these tests? I ask because the LG HG2's I bought really dissapointed me! I mean bad! I was running them in an Istick 200w at the same settings as my Istick Pico and getting more run time from the Pico with a single VCT5. Now, after six cycles, they are showing better run times. I'm hoping to see more life with a few more cycles.
    But this has left me wondering how much you cycle them for these tests?
     
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  4. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    My voltage readings are accurate to about 0.013V with the battery analyzer I'm using at 20A and the regular calibrations I do. Since that 0.013V worst case offset is consistent I can directly compare batteries against each other accurately, to better than a few millivolts. These voltages are confirmed by a Fluke 8846A meter, orders of magnitude more accurate than a ProVari.

    I don't understand what "tempcont." is.
     
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  5. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Each battery gets cycled three times at 10A to confirm that they're functioning properly and that the performance is not changing from discharge to discharge. No Samsung/Sony/LG/Panasonic/Sanyo has changed performance during these discharges. Then I do anywhere from 7 to 12 more discharges for the continuous and pulse testing.

    You may not have genuine HG2's. Is the white top insulating ring semi-gloss/shiny or matte/textured? Is it glued to the battery or free-floating?
     
    Baditude likes this.
  6. sawlight

    sawlight Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 2, 2009
    Kansas
    Thank you for the answer. They are dull white and textured, legit per the vendor. Like I say, they are getting better with use, it was just the first couple of cycles I really wondered!
     
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  7. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    Sawlight, I understand what you are talking about with multi-battery mods getting shorter vape time than a single battery mod. Apparently, there's some overhead involved in the electronics affecting battery consumption with the mods that do VW, WW, and temp control and higher wattages. I was disappointed with the vape time on three VTC4's in my RX200S. My Koopor Plus 200W gets at least 25% more vape time from two VTC4's than the triple battery RX200S with both mods vaping at 8W and 10W on different sets of married VTC4's.

    It's probably an efficiency shortfall in the designs of different mods due to all the things that mods are now asked to do. Either that, or just plain old differences in engineering. You can design a circuit for features or raw power or battery efficiency, but maybe not all three in one board. I guess it depends on what the designer had in mind when he or she laid out the requirements.
     
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  8. Phassat

    Phassat Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 9, 2014
    Planet Earth
    Thanks @Mooch ... Start hunting for vtc 6
     
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  9. Barrar

    Barrar New Member

    Aug 5, 2016
    A well designed mod will be 85%-95% efficient depending on how many watts it's putting out as well as the voltage and current. A poorly designed mod pushing 100 watts into a 0.5 ohm (7 volts = sqrt(100watt*0.5ohm)) might be 75% efficient and suffer from overheating, because that 25% inefficiency is dissipated as heat in the mod's circuitry. The voltage must be boosted from around 3.5 volts to 7 volts, and the large difference causes that inefficiency. Some mods use constant voltage PWM, and maybe a capacitor to smooth out the voltage, which can allow the mod to be 90%+ efficient at a wider range of voltages. The batteries also don't provide as many watt-hours at high loads. Multi-battery devices reduce this effect.

    All this (and more details that can be researched) can cause large variations in run time between two different mod/atomizer combinations with identical batteries. Maybe someone will test and publish results of mod efficiency. That does not sound like fun, but it's possible.
     
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  10. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    I understand the theory of buck and boost circuitry and I think you are right about the efficiency of different circuits. Apparently, the Wismec RX200 and RX200S aren't the most efficient designs. People with the DNA200 RX models report much longer battery life from the same cells (for a lot more money). I experienced a lot of heat from the case in mine and ordered a Wismec finned heat sink for the 510 connection. That solved the warm case problem. The heat was coming from my SS Kayfun as it sinked heat into the case from the atomizer. With the heat sink in place both stay relatively cool as the heat is dispersed into the air from the fins.

    Battery life is probably affected by the overhead and inefficiency of the circuit design. I'd like to see battery life compared by wattage settings of 10W, 50W, 100W, and 200W. That would be interesting.
     
    KenD likes this.
  11. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Daniel of DJLsb Vapes will be posting efficiency numbers for the mods he tests soon.
     
  12. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    You can check battery life for any battery I've tested by looking at the continuous and pulsed discharge graphs. They're in mAh and minutes for different discharge current rates but give you the same relative performance data.
     
    DaveP likes this.
  13. Pete54

    Pete54 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 30, 2009
    Clearwater, Florida
    I can't find any VTC6's for sale yet but past history tells me they will cost substantially more than the 30Q's currently available for $6.00. Maybe it's just me but the difference in performance seems to be negligible and hardly worth the premium price Sony usually charges for their new batteries. We shall see.
    Thanks again for your research Mooch!
     
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  14. DaveP

    DaveP PV Master & Musician ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 22, 2010
    Central GA
    My experience with similarly rated cells (from your data) corresponds with the vape time I get from those cells. I have two 200 watt mods (Smok Koopor Plus and Wismec RX200S). The Smok gives me about 2 full days on two VTC4's. The Wismec yields about a day and a half on 3 VTC4's. I vape both at 8W to 10W depending on how new the wick happens to be.

    Apparently, the Smok has less firmware overhead, possibly fewer monitoring algorithms, or just a more efficient method of delivering the vape than the Wismec. Go figure. I use the same Kayfun RBA's with coils from 1 to 2 ohms on both.
     
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  15. General2121

    General2121 Full Member

    Feb 18, 2015
    Minnesota
    @Mooch I am wondering what would be better for my Istick tc100w mod I just bought? I vape at 26 to 30w on my subtank mini but I will be updating my tank soon so the wattage might go up. I am trying to find batteries locally as I am needing batteries soon. Thanks for the help!
     
  16. Phassat

    Phassat Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 9, 2014
    Planet Earth
    Just bought Samsung q30, will test it tomorrow if it would give me better Vape time compared to hg2
     
    DaveP likes this.
  17. bigdancehawk

    bigdancehawk Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 27, 2010
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Good luck. I can't find them at retail anywhere. Please let us know if you're successful.
     
  18. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    The tests show they're all close.
    Start with 30Q's. If not available try HG2's. VTC6's are still hard to find but you can use EnerCig EC-C6's as they're VTC6 rewraps.
     
  19. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Could also mention the new AW 3000mah 20 amp IMR, since the poster is looking locally. Will probably be a little more expensive than the others but might be available in local vape shops if you don't wish to purchase online.

    [​IMG] AW 20A 3000mAh Flat-Top 18650 Bench Test Results...a good high-capacity 20A battery, could be an HG2
     
  20. DingerCPA

    DingerCPA Vaping Mistress Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 9, 2014
    Corn 'n' Cows
    @Mooch - THANK YOU so much for all this information. Your battery guides are my Gospel....
     
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