Why do dual 18650 mods keep advertising as 200 watt devices?
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I can think of three reasons we play it conservatively...
There are no industry standards for pulse ratings for our Li-Ion cells.
Even Mooch gave up the attempt to work one out, at least for now.
None of the reputable cell mfgs, except Samsung IIRC, provide pulse ratings. That "35A pulse" you mention is an unverifiable fiction created by the re-wrappers who have flooded the vape market.
Last... when your helis stress the crap out of their LiPos... they're not doing it while attached to your face. Or my face. My pretty, pretty face.
Not everyone has a background with lithium based batteries as this, yet even still a 6s LiPo is an entirely different beast than an average 20amp CDR INR/IMR 18650 battery. I myself tell from newbie to experienced vaper, don't use the pulse rating, without "ACTIVE" cooling, pulse rating is a disaster waiting to happen, mechanical a hard short already at 35amp max PDR, boom, trip to hospital, regulated is a bit safer but at full pulse of a battery, if the circuit board has a fault, again, probably not as explosively, internals melt in the mod, and if you are lucky you probably only walk away with hot electrolyte burns. Samsung 25R for example, 20amp CDR with a pulse in the 35 to 40amp range, if you build (mechanical) your atty to only pull 10 to 15amps from the battery, if there is a short or problem you still have wiggle room and possibly time to get the battery removed, in a regulated, in a series config, about 120 to 130watts max that battery can withstand to be safe (which is about 20 to 23amps), pushing further, you will later down the road have issues. As batteries age, their C and Mah ratings decrease, both of those figures determine max CDR under "PASSIVE" air cooling, so the 25R again under heavy heavy abuse (20amps continually all day every day for example), 3months down the road you have cooked that battery so much internally, the Mah could be anywhere from 1250mah to 1500mah from its original 2500mah (1/2 capacity), the CDR that it can safely run at now is around 10 to 12amps CDR.
Here's a question in return as a morale, how many "Expert" Sky Divers (an example of pushing life to the limit) if you searched for records of incidents, had an issue with their parachute pack failing and had to pop their reserve chute if high enough or they hit the ground at full terminal velocity? Morale of the story, even an expert in anything, if you push the limits and boundaries, eventually you will have an incident, even if taking the utmost precaution, with vaping, pushing that envelope so close to your face has drastic consequences.
Not trying to come off condecending or argumentative, but I can say 90% of everyone that replies about battery related issues on these forums that I have seen, religiously preach use the CDR rating, generally older actual age crowd, anyone that talks about using PDR as a safe rating are talking out their nether region in my opinion only, generally your younger actual aged crowd, so yes there is a dicotomy and split that I have witnessed myself. The my "BLEEP" is bigger than your "BLEEP" one upmanship of extreme vapers in this industry in all honesty need to be reeled in IMHO, yes they are driving this industry but they only make up max maybe 10% all vapers world wide, are the most visual, and the ones getting the media hype presently, 70% of vapers are still on Ego class /w clearomizers or similar devices and being left behind.
JMHO
I am one of those that vape on the conservative side, not to say I do not cloud from time to time on an RDA or sub-ohm clouding RTA, even then I am not pushing the envelope to close to the max I am at a higher risk of an incident, which even being conservative I have had my issues, loose screws, coil shifting from being tipped over, and that is being cautious, would have hated to seen the results if at the max extreme.
5000mah
40C
Nominal
2s
Healthy and spanking new
After 1 run with data logs showing 2 peaks at 180 amps...
A dozen runs prior to wake up the pack never peaked over 40 amps...
If you know what you swear you know, your argument is garbage and you know it.
All batteries aren't created equal.
No 2 are identical.
Testing shows MANY batteries don't meet their specs before failure.
Most people don't know better.
Better to err on the side of caution.
Tapatyped
https://www.powerstream.com/p/INR18650-25R-datasheet.pdf
samsungs own data look at their pulse testing
all batteries have failures THATS NOT THE POINT the statement was made several times vaping a battery at 32 amps(200 watts) is unsafe...why?
and shorts do not count you can be vaping at 10 watts and if you have a hard short its bad.If you guys reppeatedly say that vaping is unsafe because you may have a failure BECAUSE OF A SHORT...well then quit vaping cause that can happen.again show me why vaping a good name brand battery at 32 amps is unsafe...the data sheet does not support that.I can go find a picture of any battery after a thermal runaway that proves nothing and not what this is about.I have provided manufacturer specs that show my point I want to see the specs that show it is unsafe
as usual my argument is sound and based on fact.I am not throwing out random numbers and unrelevant statistics
samsungs own data look at their pulse testing
all batteries have failures THATS NOT THE POINT the statement was made several times vaping a battery at 32 amps(200 watts) is unsafe...why?
and shorts do not count you can be vaping at 10 watts and if you have a hard short its bad.If you guys reppeatedly say that vaping is unsafe because you may have a failure BECAUSE OF A SHORT...well then quit vaping cause that can happen.again show me why vaping a good name brand battery at 32 amps is unsafe...the data sheet does not support that.I can go find a picture of any battery after a thermal runaway that proves nothing and not what this is about.I have provided manufacturer specs that show my point I want to see the specs that show it is unsafe
as usual my argument is sound and based on fact.I am not throwing out random numbers and unrelevant statistics
all this stuff about no pulse info from manufacturers is nonsense.there is detailed info about the ammounts of amps and time of pulse along with resting info.there are repeated pulses much higher than 32 amps for 5 second durations.there are short pulses of triple the amps.This idea that pulsing a battery at 32 amps is asking for problems has no basis from factual data, its fear mongering.we are not talking about testing at 35 amps we are talking about 85 amps 65 amps and 45 amps well over any small safety margin
Its not about the 32amps. 32amps after, giving a bit here, say 3 seconds pulse on a 20amp battery like the Samsung 25R can be fine for that 3 seconds only, the battery ramps down to its CDR duty cycle afterward, but if you do not let it, you stress it, heat it up further and further internally toward thermal runaway, each cycle you do this damages it beyond recovery, eventually it will fail on you. Now 32amps on a true 30amp CDR battery, and there are only 4 such batteries, the Sony VTC3, and the LG HB2, HB4, and HB6 (low mah, high C rating, highest CDR currently made, and highest Pulse ratings (in the 40 to 50ish PDR range), with either 4 of these batteries you are really fine just 2 amps over their CDR, the HB6 especially has no problem here due to it runs the coolest of all 4 batteries at full 30amps. Basically we are comparing oranges to tangerines, but without researching the strengths and weaknesses of any battery, you never learn "Use the right battery for the right application". 200watts, most people look past the 4 true 30amp CDR batteries due to their low mah ratings and instead go for batteries with longer run time. Only 2 mods that are 200watts that I trust can do 200watts safely at the moment, the Wismec Releaux DNA200 and RX200 (3 batteries in series), even with 20amp CDR LG HG2 3000mah batteries, these 2 mods barely break 21amps at full 200watts.
/edit
last I am replying, but I will state this. Take pulse rating and forget about it, run in CDR only or not at all your choice.
/edit
last I am replying, but I will state this. Take pulse rating and forget about it, run in CDR only or not at all your choice.
Just a heads up.
There are at least eight 200w triple 18650 mods that I know of.
Three different chip families (DNA, YiHi and the RX's and upcoming i200's JTech chip) and multiple bodies... four of them the "Reuleaux" shape enclosure.
Several of them (DNAs) predate the two Wismecs.
Yes, I'd heard a YiHi was on the way or had been released, the DNA200's it has been well known they will only do 200watts /w a LiPo or 3X 18650 being detected. Still was just trying to explain as example the only type of devices (3X 18650 types) that would safely run 200w with batteries that most people decide to buy, namely the 20amp CDR 2500 to 3000mah batteries available.
Well... you said "only two that I trust", so...
Yeah, the YiHi has been out... it's from Kangside.
There's a new up scale hoity-toity DNA Reuleaux (with real leather trim... ooooh) but I don't recall the maker. That's coming soon.
The i200 of course.
And the several (3?, 4?) DNAs from way back, including that funky Neon colored 3D printed enclosure, can never remember it's name.
That's eight or nine. All 18650 powered.
Yeah, the YiHi has been out... it's from Kangside.
There's a new up scale hoity-toity DNA Reuleaux (with real leather trim... ooooh
) but I don't recall the maker. That's coming soon.The i200 of course.
And the several (3?, 4?) DNAs from way back, including that funky Neon colored 3D printed enclosure, can never remember it's name.
That's eight or nine. All 18650 powered.
With the 2 battery 200 watt mods .... well most of them will not do 200 watts and those that will usually will only do it for a very short time and only on very low resistane coils. Regardless of the battery you have in them.
Let us not forget the folks that think mah= power.
And that the 10 to 20 amp CDR batteries will be damaged on every 100 watt pull.
And people.
This isn't a hobby site where people are more likely to stick around and learn battery behavior and specs.
We probably have 10 times as many members that never made it out of the new member section than post regularly.
And 1 out of every 10 regular posters that actually obtain legitimate battery information.
And 1 out of 10 of them that can apply it and/or extrapolate it beyond step by step instructions.
And overall traffic will always be 10 guests to each member.
And these are VERY optimistic numbers.
So 1/10,000 of the readers MAYBE won't misconstrue how to use a pulse number EVEN IF IT'S ACCURATE.
For which... majority of available cells are dangerously overrated.
And again... VERY OPTIMISTIC numbers.
ETA; Also...
Let's not forget most are of the mindset that there's actually electricity in those little cylinders. Can't comprehend they're physical components with very real physical attributes and consequences beyond the phrase "blow your face off".
Not a clue about electrolytes, electrolysis, anodes, cathode, chemical reaction, thermo-chemical reaction, insulation (not just one pole from the other), which parts aren't actually necessary, etc........
Tapatyped
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Not for long.
The bar has been set.
Next step... raise it.
Then... everyone else follow suit.
Goto 1
Tapatyped
Energy?Why waste the energy on this guys??? lol
I'm just conversating on a topic I enjoy.
Tapatyped
I enjoy the Battery Section very much here for learning, and know a lot these days... Idk maybe im just too tired to jump in lol
We all have to draw the line somewhere.I enjoy the Battery Section very much here for learning, and know a lot these days... Idk maybe im just too tired to jump in lol
Maybe tomorrow you'll see a post that interests you enough to jump in.
Maybe it all goes to hell and gets closed.
Either way, train wreck or not... made you look.[emoji38]
Tapatyped
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