Why do they keep saying vaping is going away, ecigs will be decimated

[Racehorse]

When I am reading stuff like this all the time?

Nicopure Labs Selects AdvanceTEC for Turn-Key Cleanroom Design-Build of its Advanced E-Liquid Facility

Look at the date: July 13, 2015.

Now maybe somebody can explain to me why, a really smart company with accountants, risk managers, and such, would be building out a full 10,000 square foot state of the art cGMP compliant clean room manufacturing plant......if it was going to be "all over" soon.


DO ya know how much this costs???

It just doesn't look to me like there wont be any eliquid to be had...

 

[smacuser]

Money will be made. Looks like someone just got paid.

 

[stevegmu]

It is good for the bulk vendors to have a new scare every week? I don't know. Since I have been on here doom and gloom has always been around the corner...

 

[Alien Traveler]

When I am reading stuff like this all the time?

Nicopure Labs Selects AdvanceTEC for Turn-Key Cleanroom Design-Build of its Advanced E-Liquid Facility

Look at the date: July 13, 2015.

Now maybe somebody can explain to me why, a really smart company with accountants, risk managers, and such, would be building out a full 10,000 square foot state of the art cGMP compliant clean room manufacturing plant......if it was going to be "all over" soon.


DO ya know how much this costs???

It just doesn't look to me like there wont be any eliquid to be had...

Have no idea how much it costs, but for sure they are building on the lowest level of "cleanness" - they just do not need (and possible could not afford) a high-quality cleanroom. Difference in classification of quality of cleanrooms (by FDA) is huge, so should be difference in the costs also. I do not think low-level cleanroom costs too much.

 

[crxess]

It is good for the bulk vendors to have a new scare every week? I don't know. Since I have been on here doom and gloom has always been around the corner...

Not from me. When I see it I'll believe it and unlike some I'll be ready for it.
Heck, whats a measly $.25 per ml Tax anyway............ to start, then the annual <we Need More money increases> But heck, $25.00 for 10ml, no biggy.

I always like the - sooner or later people will wake up routine. Not really. If they haven't awaken in the last 50yrs. it isn't going to happen in my lifetime.

Clean Room in itself is not a bad investment. Even if the Hammer does drop they have other uses.

 

[Racehorse]

Money will be made. Looks like someone just got paid.

When I look at the sheer number of cGMP compliant "white label" ejuice factories, pumping out pallet after pallet of ejuice for god knows how many ejuice companies....I really wonder.
Look at this one:
e Liquid Filling - California Vapor

If you look at the photo you can see they obviously do all of space jam's work, but they have thousands of other customers they are making juice for.....and they are only one manufacturing plant. You can find them all day long by googling.

They will even "name" the ejuices for you, or let you use their "house" recipes if you don't want to create an ejuice yourself.

One would have to suspend belief (and I mean like believing that little red riding hood exists) to think that somehow, all this is just going to go "POOF!" in the night.

It is good for the bulk vendors to have a new scare every week? I don't know. Since I have been on here doom and gloom has always been around the corner...

Maybe it encourages stockpiling (buying)? I really don't know, and have been asking this question to myself for about 3 years now.

Besides the facilities themselves, there are the other things you notice like the huge cash infusions/investments that you read about NJOY getting ...... its like all these "smart" people just are throwing millions of dollars down on *beanie babies*? I doubt it. Sorry, but I doubt it.

THAT many manufacturing plants are gonna have "other uses" when ecigs disappear in the night? C'mon!

 

[Racehorse]

Have no idea how much it costs, but for sure they are building on the lowest level of "cleanness" - they just do not need (and possible could not afford) a high-quality cleanroom. Difference in classification of quality of cleanrooms (by FDA) is huge, so should be difference in the costs also. I do not think low-level cleanroom costs too much.

Did you read the article? Are you calling this a low level clean room? It is being built to be FDA compliant.

Do you think California Vapor manufacturing is low level? 30,000 square feet with chemists on staff? Of course, there are better ones.

 

[Suryia]

I dont think it will be an outright ban, but a tax on the products. If they do become heavily taxed, then having an industrial type clean room would help with keeping costs down. The companies that will suffer from taxation and regulation will be the small scale producers, as they might be pushed out due to ever increasing costs of business. Regulation generally favors the companies with the most effecient and large scale operations. They are probably just hedging their bets.

 

[Racehorse]

The companies that will suffer from taxation and regulation will be the small scale producers

Like what would be an example of a small scale producer? How many bottles going out per week?

Or are you talking about people who are mixing at home in a shed with a stainless steel table and some dispensing jugs who are sending via facebook about 50 bottles a day and probably don't have pallets on site or any kind of forklifts, etc. Not very many of those that I can think of to be honest........

 

[Suryia]

Like what would be an example of a small scale producer? How many bottles going out per week?

Or are you talking about people who are mixing at home in a shed with a stainless steel table and some dispensing jugs who are sending via facebook about 50 bottles a day and probably don't have pallets on site or any kind of forklifts, etc. Not very many of those that I can think of to be honest........

I wish I had an answer for you in that regard, but I really dont. I was speaking in general economic terms, but not really sure what kind of production quantity would separate the big guys from the little ones in this particular sector.

 

[crxess]

Poof in the night - Never
This industry is a Cash Cow
A Gold Mine for the Government to Cash in on
No, the Scare tactics are not to drive Vaping out of existence, but drive into the Dark Abyss to be Taxed without objection from any but the minority being hit.
only the most outright ignorant of governments would seek to do away with free increasing tax revenue. Scribble out a few laws and start collecting.

Yes I stockpile - DIY, not in fear of total Banning, but over concern of cost increases and restrictions on Retail Nicotine Base sales.

Knowing Shelf lives of many Pre-mixed e-liquids, I would recommend against ever stockpiling such. Many go completely Rancid in a matter of months.................though a few get better.

I have a feeling all but thee BT cig-a-likes will be well above $10ea. and any remaining e-liquid mixes will be taxed at $.25 per ml or higher.

Many never Vapors will say why quit smoking, vaping is just as expensive.
The healthier angle is a harder sell even when obvious.

 

[Completely Average]

Like what would be an example of a small scale producer? How many bottles going out per week?

Or are you talking about people who are mixing at home in a shed with a stainless steel table and some dispensing jugs who are sending via facebook about 50 bottles a day and probably don't have pallets on site or any kind of forklifts, etc. Not very many of those that I can think of to be honest........

EVERY SINGLE BRICK AND MORTAR STORE.

Anyplace that makes a "house blend" ejuice. These places rely on sales of their own ejuice to stay in business. The profit margins on ejuice sales are astronomical and the only reason B&M's can stay in business at all. How many ecig mods do you think a B&M would have to sell with a $20 profit per mod and $5 profit per tank when they've got $2k in rent per month, $300 in utilities per month, $3k in employee pay per month, plus insurance costs and other expenses to pay for, above and beyond the cost of their inventory? How many B&Ms have you walked into that generate that kind of walk-in business?

Just to give you an idea of the profits that house blend ejuice sales makes for a B&M store, you can spend about $250 buying supplies. That will give you enough supplies to make roughly 9,500ml of juice. If you broke that down into 30ml bottles and sold them for $15 each that's a total of $4,750 in sales with $4,500 of that being pure profit. And all you have to do is average selling 10 bottles per day to generate that income.

It's house blend ecig juice and the 1,300% profit margin that it generates that keeps these places open, and virtually ALL of them will be shut down with the proposed taxes and regulations.

 

[Papillon61]

Personally I don't much care about big firms' clean rooms. I make my own juice but if I can no longer buy nicbase online and cross-border (which is the only way I can possible get nicbase, and PG,VG and flavours for that matter) then yes, unless I stock up, my days would be numbered.

 

[skoony]

actually digging into the story a little bit it sounds
like best operating practices concerning food production.
"cGMP (Current Good Manufacturing Practices) guidelines"
Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMPs)
this is the kind of regulations i think we all could agree on.
i have always said the regulations already on the books
are good enough to insure safe production procedures.
regards
mike

 

[Alien Traveler]

Did you read the article? Are you calling this a low level clean room? It is being built to be FDA compliant.

Do you think California Vapor manufacturing is low level? 30,000 square feet with chemists on staff? Of course, there are better ones.

Low level - built to the lowest specification requirements. They just do not need anything better. And there is a very wide spectrum of requirements:
Cleanroom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Correspondingly, very wide price range. While I do not know prices, it is pretty obvious that "low level" clean room is not too expensive, as well as BS in chemistry.

 

[Racehorse]

EVERY SINGLE BRICK AND MORTAR STORE.......It's house blend ecig juice and the 1,300% profit margin that it generates that keeps these places open, and virtually ALL of them will be shut down with the proposed taxes and regulations.

vapers are already complaining that they will not buy from B&Ms.....guess they feel like they are being fleeced because somebody is making 1,300% profit margin off of them.

I think it was good that you laid out their expenses though. Realistic. Using your figs loosely, lets take 2 stores, (made up ones) in a place like Maimi, figure the revenue from sales would be around $1.6 million a year on them. Maybe a lil more, maybe a lil less.

Even if they have about $150K in expenses at each store, (I bumped your figs up quite a bit) and then, after all inventory is paid for, I can't see how they could possibly be making less than about $600K-800K a year (free and clear, i.e. profit)? They are not having to make the juice in any kind of "clean" environment.

So you're saying they can't afford to stay open?

 

[skoony]

EVERY SINGLE BRICK AND MORTAR STORE.

Anyplace that makes a "house blend" ejuice. These places rely on sales of their own ejuice to stay in business. The profit margins on ejuice sales are astronomical and the only reason B&M's can stay in business at all. How many ecig mods do you think a B&M would have to sell with a $20 profit per mod and $5 profit per tank when they've got $2k in rent per month, $300 in utilities per month, $3k in employee pay per month, plus insurance costs and other expenses to pay for, above and beyond the cost of their inventory? How many B&Ms have you walked into that generate that kind of walk-in business?

Just to give you an idea of the profits that house blend ejuice sales makes for a B&M store, you can spend about $250 buying supplies. That will give you enough supplies to make roughly 9,500ml of juice. If you broke that down into 30ml bottles and sold them for $15 each that's a total of $4,750 in sales with $4,500 of that being pure profit. And all you have to do is average selling 10 bottles per day to generate that income.

It's house blend ecig juice and the 1,300% profit margin that it generates that keeps these places open, and virtually ALL of them will be shut down with the proposed taxes and regulations.

your estimate for employer costs are way way low.
regards
mike

 

[Racehorse]

While I do not know prices, it is pretty obvious that "low level" clean room is not too expensive, as well as BS in chemistry.

So you're thinking that HALO, one of the largest and most respected eliquid companies out there, is going to be building a "cheapo" facility?

Have you ever been over to Johnson Creek facilities?

I do not think low-level cleanroom costs too much.

I do realize a BS in chemistry doesn't give you a commercial real estate appraisers license, but things do cost money. A lot more than some people realize.

At any rate.... cheap or expensive, my point was, if it's July of 2015 I doubt Halo would be building out like this if the vaporapolcalapse is upon us. And no, I don't expect it to be one of the cheapo ones.

 

[Racehorse]

your estimate for employer costs are way way low.
regards
mike

I thought so, too. His figs would put expenses at about $80K ........ that's why I bumped them up to $150K in my example for a store.......not even counting the purchasing of inventory.

 

[Froth]

Not too long ago I was laughed at for suggesting a clean room environment to prepare juice, personally one of the biggest driving factors for me switching to DIY liquid was the inability to discern what sort of facility whoever made the juice was using. Kudos to Nicopure for taking a step in the right direction.