Why do they keep saying vaping is going away, ecigs will be decimated

[skoony]

I might be missing something.
doesn't the story linked just saying
thier just making a glorified commercial
kitchen?
regards
mike

 

[Racehorse]

Not too long ago I was laughed at for suggesting a clean room environment to prepare juice

I was in a store and watched the owner take money and then he sent back into storeroom to mix juice for a customer.

Doubt he even had an autoclave and the thought that somebody is making stuff that will go into my lungs, without the bottles and mixing stuff being autoclaved and no proof that mixer even washed their hands........yikes. No thank you. I'm sure there is a ton of this kind of mixing going on, which I have no interest in paying for.

I think Johnson Creek was the first company to use glass bottles, child safety caps, shrink wrap and lot # on bottles, etc. Interestingly, their CEO predicted a number of years ago that by 2018 the revenue for the industry would be $40 billion. That's when I realized that some people who got on the right track early on were going to be the ones still standing when regs came down. MOV, a few others, also early adopters.

It's funny when five pawns was doing their "barrel aged" thing beause Johnson Creek had been doing that for many years already.........I believe NJOY uses or used JC manufacturing facilities for their products as well.

 

[house mouse]

I think whether the industry is decimated or not depends on if the FDA sticks to the 2007 date. If they do, the only products that will probably survive are BT's cigalikes and those will survive simply because BT has the money to play the game. Vaping isn't gone at that point but the only vaping options left pretty much suck for a lot of people. To me that's a decimation of the industry.

Now, if the Grandfather date gets pushed forward to 2015 I can see why some e-liquid companies would be upping their manufacturing game to hopefully meet whatever those particular regulations might be. But until the FDA publishes it's deeming regs I feel it's a crap shoot which way this industry is going to roll.

 

[Weedity]

I can't see the vaping industry being shut down at this point. The outrage would be real...

 

[skoony]

I was in a store and watched the owner take money and then he sent back into storeroom to mix juice for a customer.

Doubt he even had an autoclave and the thought that somebody is making stuff that will go into my lungs, without the bottles and mixing stuff being autoclaved and no proof that mixer even washed their hands........yikes. No thank you. I'm sure there is a ton of this kind of mixing going on, which I have no interest in paying for.

I think Johnson Creek was the first company to use glass bottles, child safety caps, shrink wrap and lot # on bottles, etc. Interestingly, their CEO predicted a number of years ago that by 2018 the revenue for the industry would be $40 billion. That's when I realized that some people who got on the right track early on were going to be the ones still standing when regs came down. MOV, a few others, also early adopters.

It's funny when Five Pawns was doing their "barrel aged" thing beause Johnson Creek had been doing that for many years already.........I believe NJOY uses or used JC manufacturing facilities for their products as well.

this brings to mind the age old question.
how long has that bottle of ketchup been sitting in the fridge?

mike

 

[Racehorse]

I can't see the vaping industry being shut down at this point. The outrage would be real...

It would have nothing to do with outrage.

Less than 20% of the US population vapes.
In AR, probably about 1% of the population. (and with recently passed laws that eliquid can only be purchases face to face by permit holding retail shops....you can barely get anyone to even participate in a topic about it. )

Here's the reason the vaping industry won't be shut down:

because it is projected to be $10 billion in sales over next few years. Actually, some industry insiders say more like $75 billion by 2020.

It will be a cash cow for vendors and the ecig industry, for states who will tax it, for BT, etc. It's a game everyone wants part of.

Money makes the world go 'round and this is a money-maker.

 

[smokinGAVIN]

EVERY SINGLE BRICK AND MORTAR STORE.

Anyplace that makes a "house blend" ejuice. These places rely on sales of their own ejuice to stay in business. The profit margins on ejuice sales are astronomical and the only reason B&M's can stay in business at all. How many ecig mods do you think a B&M would have to sell with a $20 profit per mod and $5 profit per tank when they've got $2k in rent per month, $300 in utilities per month, $3k in employee pay per month, plus insurance costs and other expenses to pay for, above and beyond the cost of their inventory? How many B&Ms have you walked into that generate that kind of walk-in business?

Just to give you an idea of the profits that house blend ejuice sales makes for a B&M store, you can spend about $250 buying supplies. That will give you enough supplies to make roughly 9,500ml of juice. If you broke that down into 30ml bottles and sold them for $15 each that's a total of $4,750 in sales with $4,500 of that being pure profit. And all you have to do is average selling 10 bottles per day to generate that income.

It's house blend ecig juice and the 1,300% profit margin that it generates that keeps these places open, and virtually ALL of them will be shut down with the proposed taxes and regulations.

I don't think the 10 bottles a day will cut it. $2k rent, $3k wages and $300 utilities is already $5.3k. I pity the B&Ms that may not survive.

 

[Racehorse]

I don't think the 10 bottles a day will cut it. $2k rent, $3k wages and $300 utilities is already $5.3k. I pity the B&Ms that may not survive.

They won't survive because vaping has turned into BIG VAPING, just like Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Big Food, Big Banking, and Big Coporate.

They are all using those turnkey bottle filling industry plants now, the only work they have to do is mostly marketing, like sponsoring race cars and bikini girl contests/ads.

It's going to turn into a real circus, some of it already has. $10+ billion in sales next few years (some have projected more like $17 billion) it's a huge cash cow.

Gone are the days of little niche industry, with one-on-one service, etc.

And, now that all this stuff is getting bottled in places like these turn key bottling plants, it's easy to label with lot numbers, etc. that can be inventoried and TAXED and kept track of.

Vaping ain't going away. There's been too much investment and the ones who invested big are probably on the phone once a week to the FDA, politicians, etc. to see what they have to do to keep it going.....and they have the $$ to do it all right. The big guys like NJOY, I think they are using JC's processing plant, or were.....we are talking very large and well-capitalized Corporations here......cutwood and spacejam joining it appears from what I can see.

Welcome to Big Corporation vaping. That is the future.

It's not all bad, I mean, these are the only ones who can get in bed with the politicians, FDA, etc. to keep vaping alive, IMHO.

It's a money game.......for everybody, not just for Big Tobacco.

 

[KattMamma]

I think I'm going to be ill... it sounds like you're cheerleading for regulations, mega-corps, and little or no choice what we're left with.

 

[Vaslovik]

Not from me. When I see it I'll believe it and unlike some I'll be ready for it.
Heck, whats a measly $.25 per ml Tax anyway............ to start, then the annual <we Need More money increases> But heck, $25.00 for 10ml, no biggy.

It's much less of a biggie for those who DIY. The Biggie there is what happens with nicotine, and that's what BT and BP are going after. BT wants a serious all-inclusive monopoly on it, with total control of it, because that's been their bread and butter for generations. This is why they are doing all in their power to pass legislation banning open vaping systems in favor of their own closed systems in which they decide what you get in your vape. If they pull it off it's Blu for us all.

As we all know full well, their vapes suck, and ours rock.

Let the games begin....

 

[Racehorse]

I think I'm going to be ill... it sounds like you're cheerleading for regulations, mega-corps, and little or no choice what we're left with.

No, the very industry we are trying to protect is doing it to themselves.

Look around you and see what is happening.

I'm responsible for that? You slay me. Really.

How sad that you would put the blame on a fellow vaper though.

I'm not cheerleeding......I'm OBSERVING. Something that some people in denial aren't doing.

 

[Racehorse]

it sounds like you're cheerleading for mega-corps

I've lived a long time KattMamma. In a global economy in an absolutely cut-throat business environment. Let me ask you, how do you see it playing out? Because I can't help but think reading some posts here that some of you still think vaping industry is still in the infancy stage where some stay at home mom can make a little $$ mixing ejuice.

$17 billlion projected sales and we still have people saying stuff like "oh vaping won't disappear because the "outrage" from us vapers would be too great???

That outrage won't be a busload of vapers with picket signs protesting their vaping activism standing on a lawn somewhere with vape gear.

That outrage will be mega-corporate vaping interests, who have deep pockets, a steady stream of investment funds, money to litigate, and money for lobbyists, fancy marketing.......and probably a little to oil a few political pockets along the way.

Unfortunately, that is how it's going to play out because that is already how it's playing out....I didn't cause that to happen.

And because that is what it takes to survive in a cut-throat global business environment in 2015 and beyond.

Yes, you have to become like BT and Walmart in essence.

Unless you think a $10+ billion industry is going to be running like some kinda little beanie baby business run by part time soccer moms.

I live in the real world. Know how it's done.

If that makes you sick, change the world. change capitalism. Change everything.

But don't take it out on me. Let's talk 2 years from now, heck, even 1 year from now......see if my predictions come true.

 

[sd3614]

I can't see the vaping industry being shut down at this point. The outrage would be real...

Well, it kind of is, state by state slowly making it more difficult, more of hassle. What government wants is taxes, DIY may be the last to get cut down but they will figure it out. Big T has decades head start on the grasp of "sin" products and paying to play.

In Indiana they are going to cut out online sales coming in the state for Juice. Not one vendor has stepped up to say they can meet the rules and I bet none will. What will happen is they (ecomm stores and vendors) just remove Indiana from the check out option. Non confrontational and smooth.

You don't realize whats happening until it happens in your state. Big T will win this battle, they will eventually make bigger more ML cigalikes and ship it everywhere without hassle. Imagine a Marlboro branded Ego One with a cartridge the size of a tank labeled as a stop e-cig at a gas station. Not and if but a when.

Dunno, I'm grouchy. Ignore me.

 

[ringling]

Now maybe somebody can explain to me why, a really smart company with accountants, risk managers, and such, would be building out a full 10,000 square foot state of the art cGMP compliant clean room manufacturing plant......if it was going to be "all over" soon.


DO ya know how much this costs???

It just doesn't look to me like there wont be any eliquid to be had...

Guess somebody will have to make the Ejuice for the Tobacco Companies. Remember, This is all being set up for Big Tobacco to take control of it.......