Wholecig.com. They have quite a bit up now, but they haven't "officially" opened. That's where I have been buying my zero PG (100% VG) unflavored WTA from.
Aromaejuice.com is supposed to be having unflavored WTA at zero PG (100% VG) any day now.
Why is WTA such a controversial subject?
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Wholecig.com. They have quite a bit up now, but they haven't "officially" opened. That's where I have been buying my zero PG (100% VG) unflavored WTA from.
Aromaejuice.com is supposed to be having unflavored WTA at zero PG (100% VG) any day now.
Disagree. We shouldn't allow misrepresentation even if it's a typo. I addressed it several days ago, we'll see if an answer is forthcoming.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...iews/442250-island-tobacco-nude-nicotine.html
I must be late then. I just received an email last night from a friend who asked about it. I called the business and talked to them which is why I made that decision to not even discuss it. PM coming... If the discussion goes there I'll add my
, but as far as I am concerned, it's not worth it.
snork, I totally get why you disagree, and maybe you're right on this? Either way, I do get it. The thing is though, short of an actual chemist explaining what it is that they're doing (if they actually would reveal it) and why it may be off, I don't really know what can be gained besides muddying the water--I would hate to further contribute to that. Oh, and they told me it's not a typo, but they do offer it in zero nic. That goes against the notion if it being "whole."
For those that don't know, a chemist here on ECF named Dvap pioneered the process in late '09 for extracting the "whole alkaloid spread" from tobacco and created the term *WTA to represent it. He once stated:
"1. When you extract tobacco, you get 95% nicotine and 5% other alkaloids. Very sophisticated techniques could be used to separate the minor alkaloids from the nicotine, but this would be extremely involved and astronomically expensive. Far easier to extract WTA and simply dilute with PG/VG.
2. When you start messing with the product and changing it, it is no longer WTA. I define WTA as the UNMODIFIED alkaloid spread extracted from whole tobacco. I can do that 'cuz I created the term and I get to define it.
"
So if they are offering it with zero nic, then it's not WTA, but they can all it that because they can. They are saying they are leaving the minor alkaloids in, but not the nic (which takes us back to Dvap's point number one). Dvap created the term and pioneered the process, but "WTA" is not copyrighted and the process is not patented (as far as I know).
They do have their own supplier thread here (not just a customer's review thread), so that would be the best place to get something on the record. I spoke with them last night, but I don't want to say too much of what was spoken over the phone as that can't be verified. What can be verified, from the product description, is that they sell what they deem to be "WTA" with and without nic, and it's supposedly made form a tobacco absolute process that, according to my research, isn't a traditional TA process (not made from a tobacco concrete).
I feel mud on my feet. Oh bother. LOL
*Initially when Dvap first began making WTA, it was (briefly) referred to by him as "FTA" (full tobacco alkaloids), but maybe that sounded a bit too much like FDA?
For those that don't know, a chemist here on ECF named Dvap pioneered the process in late '09 for extracting the "whole alkaloid spread" from tobacco and created the term *WTA to represent it. He once stated:
"1. When you extract tobacco, you get 95% nicotine and 5% other alkaloids. Very sophisticated techniques could be used to separate the minor alkaloids from the nicotine, but this would be extremely involved and astronomically expensive. Far easier to extract WTA and simply dilute with PG/VG.
2. When you start messing with the product and changing it, it is no longer WTA. I define WTA as the UNMODIFIED alkaloid spread extracted from whole tobacco. I can do that 'cuz I created the term and I get to define it.
"So if they are offering it with zero nic, then it's not WTA, but they can all it that because they can. They are saying they are leaving the minor alkaloids in, but not the nic (which takes us back to Dvap's point number one). Dvap created the term and pioneered the process, but "WTA" is not copyrighted and the process is not patented (as far as I know).
They do have their own supplier thread here (not just a customer's review thread), so that would be the best place to get something on the record. I spoke with them last night, but I don't want to say too much of what was spoken over the phone as that can't be verified. What can be verified, from the product description, is that they sell what they deem to be "WTA" with and without nic, and it's supposedly made form a tobacco absolute process that, according to my research, isn't a traditional TA process (not made from a tobacco concrete).
I feel mud on my feet. Oh bother. LOL
*Initially when Dvap first began making WTA, it was (briefly) referred to by him as "FTA" (full tobacco alkaloids), but maybe that sounded a bit too much like FDA?
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Well doesn't the notion of zero nic WTA just confound me. I thought I knew some things, hmmmm. where is Dvap? Oh well. Just wait and see for crying out loud.
Yeah, it's an oxymoron. Supposedly, and I am not saying that they have done this, you can have tobacco minor alkaloids without the nic from a "very sophisticated technique" that would be "astronomically expensive," but that wouldn't be WTA, that would just be tobacco minor alkaloids + PG/VG and flavoring. Who in the hell would want tobacco minor alkaloids without nic baffles me (now that I understand what WTA is not). Nic is not even the real "hook" in tobacco anyway, so wanting zero nic, but with the tobacco minor alkaloids seems nonsensical and not somehow "safer."
The real hook of tobacco is that synergistic relationship of the the naturally occurring "whatever's". Ha ha
I have a thing about natural. Parelli Natural Horsemanship! Stand up and cheer! Yay. And the crowd went wild.
So the DIY WTA taste is natural to me although very mild. THAT'S why I like it! I had Damania extract and the stuff doesn't taste so good but because it was natural I enjoyed the taste for that aspect. I'm one who will drink down herbal tinctures undiluted though. Love them
I have a thing about natural. Parelli Natural Horsemanship! Stand up and cheer! Yay. And the crowd went wild.
So the DIY WTA taste is natural to me although very mild. THAT'S why I like it! I had Damania extract and the stuff doesn't taste so good but because it was natural I enjoyed the taste for that aspect. I'm one who will drink down herbal tinctures undiluted though. Love them
So, I ordered some of this nude nicotine Island Tobacco last night to give it a try. Today I'm reading here and see this discussion. I will let you know how it is. The description tells me I'm going to like it and if there are some minor alkaloids in there, I bet I'll love.
Well, the aroma juice Tobacco Road has a very similar taste to my dk tob mix I've been vaping on. But, the way it feels going down is completely different. It makes my non wta juice feel like breathing cool flavored air in comparison. So, that will probably be one of the ways. I will also note the physiological affects, if any. I have some unflavored on the way right now too. Maybe I can do side by sides of the three brands vs. my non wta juice.
I don't know.
Is there any other suggestions on how to go about it?
Short of running a test on it, the only way is to vape it. It would be better to try a non-"WTA" version of the juice, but they don't sell one.
My thoughts on this (I touched on it last night) would be that the certain alkaloids are in differing proportions depending on the tobacco used--I am certain each vendor uses completely different tobaccos strains/blends. Even still, some people get no feeling at all from anyone's WTA, and some people add a drop to their nic-only liquid and swear it helps. Go figure. I imagine that everyone's sensitivity to certain chemicals is different (at least that's how I make sense of it). That said, I have never vaped anyone's WTA that was felt like nic only. I think it was hittman that first describe WTA as feeling "full," and that's one thing that carries over for me among the different offerings I've had. Once again, no matter what vendors I was vaping, unflavored WTA always hit the spot best as I didn't have to be in the mood for any particular flavor.
Full is a good word. Right now I'm vaping on about 50/50 mix of my mix (jungle leaf) and the Tobacco Road. It's really a pleasant vape. I have on hand a tank of Tobacco Road only to help with cravings. It blows my mind that it helps as much as it does. Last night, I had a very intense craving triggered by a smoking scene in a movie. I swapped tanks and and after about 5 minutes not only was my craving gone, but I had forgotten I had one to begin with. Something is definitely right in Jerry's juice.
Isn't it crazy how the most unsuspecting things can trigger those responses?
Yes, from what I understand constituent alkaloids vary from strain to strain, crop to crop, season to season, even plant to plant. For several obvious reasons Aroma's is the gold standard by which I judge all others *and* happens to be my preferred experience. Others may have a different preference.
When I was doing all that research Nicotania Rustica kept coming up. It is supposed to have the most alkaloids of any of them. There are reports of Indigenous people smoking it to go on spiritual trips and what have you. Sounds pretty cool. I'm all for having my mind blown.
One of my friends is finishing school for weapons engineering or something or other. Anyway, he has a good friend that is a chemist. I wanted to talk to that guy about alkaloid extraction and see if we could make up some of our own for DIY purposes. I think it would be cool to be able to start with a high concentration and mix down just like with 100mg nic rather than start lower and only add a small amount of other things.
One of my friends is finishing school for weapons engineering or something or other. Anyway, he has a good friend that is a chemist. I wanted to talk to that guy about alkaloid extraction and see if we could make up some of our own for DIY purposes. I think it would be cool to be able to start with a high concentration and mix down just like with 100mg nic rather than start lower and only add a small amount of other things.
I get your desire to do it, but I would say DIYing is for nic juice only. That stuff is not for novices to handle (even though your friend is a chemist). Proceed with caution.
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