Why no user upgradable firmware?
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I'm sympathetic to your question and it bares a civil and respectful discussion. My Satin P3 has V36 and my Stealth P3 is V38.
First of all, where is a detailed document directly from ProVape which tells us exactly what they fixed and in great detail. ALL the fixes with details please. For example, we fixed xxxx because it was causing xxxx. Maybe I missed it so please correct me with a link. With this information from the Mother ship, I can decide if it's worth my time and money to upgrade from V36. This kind of document is rather SOP in the software/plugin space and doesn't disclose trade secrets or impact sales in a negative fashion. On the contrary, it further enhances ProVape as a transparent company who continually strives to improve communication with their stakeholders and enhance the P3's feature set, reliability, and user experience. The engineers know exactly what they fixed and why they fixed it so....?
I'm not an EE but my guess is that the P3 tube design and firmware base code was designed to only permit an authorized dealer to perform the upgrade. To a certain extent, I can see ProVape's challenge if they don't have enough local B&Ms who are authorized. Then they/we get stuck in the send back loop. At roll out of the P3, how could they predict which dealers are willing to perform upgrades? In Vegas, out of 4 dealers, only one is authorized and that's at least a one hour drive for me and I know nothing about the dealer. Upgrading Firmware, like zapping your PC Bios or Router is a non trivial task.
As much as I would love to have this feature in the P3 and also understand that "China is watching" /lol I can live with it. Hoping and praying that the P4 will be user upgradeable and deploy extremely robust "security" procedures etc.
Temper all of my views with the understanding that I have no clue on exactly how an Authorized Dealer performs the P3 firmware upgrade? Plug something into the circuit board and connect to a SD card?? A secure download?
Wave the device 6 times in the air? /lol /joke
Just my two cents
First of all, where is a detailed document directly from ProVape which tells us exactly what they fixed and in great detail. ALL the fixes with details please. For example, we fixed xxxx because it was causing xxxx. Maybe I missed it so please correct me with a link. With this information from the Mother ship, I can decide if it's worth my time and money to upgrade from V36. This kind of document is rather SOP in the software/plugin space and doesn't disclose trade secrets or impact sales in a negative fashion. On the contrary, it further enhances ProVape as a transparent company who continually strives to improve communication with their stakeholders and enhance the P3's feature set, reliability, and user experience. The engineers know exactly what they fixed and why they fixed it so....?
I'm not an EE but my guess is that the P3 tube design and firmware base code was designed to only permit an authorized dealer to perform the upgrade. To a certain extent, I can see ProVape's challenge if they don't have enough local B&Ms who are authorized. Then they/we get stuck in the send back loop. At roll out of the P3, how could they predict which dealers are willing to perform upgrades? In Vegas, out of 4 dealers, only one is authorized and that's at least a one hour drive for me and I know nothing about the dealer. Upgrading Firmware, like zapping your PC Bios or Router is a non trivial task.
As much as I would love to have this feature in the P3 and also understand that "China is watching" /lol I can live with it. Hoping and praying that the P4 will be user upgradeable and deploy extremely robust "security" procedures etc.
Temper all of my views with the understanding that I have no clue on exactly how an Authorized Dealer performs the P3 firmware upgrade? Plug something into the circuit board and connect to a SD card?? A secure download?
Wave the device 6 times in the air? /lol /joke
Just my two cents
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If you look at this picture of the ProVari programmer you can see the part that screws onto the ProVari. It shows that the battery connection doubles as a data port. They could've made the same cable with a USB connection on the other end, so the user can connect the device to a PC. Assuming the firmware is written in C, updating it should be very easy.
All the more reason they should've made the device user upgradable.
That really is a non argument. Take TomTom for example, their PND's are user upgradable but at the same time are completely locked down. Many people have tried to crack the security but have failed. The same can be done with a mod.
Seeing that photo of the programmer unit gave me pause to wonder at the cost of producing the programmer module? Perhaps cost prohibitive at this time. Only Provape can answer these questions.
I remember reading the programmer costs €200. I can also see that the cable on the left is used to connect the unit via USB with a PC. I'm guessing the programmer holds the actual software that writes the firmware to the flash memory on the ProVari chip. Connect the programmer to a PC, send a command to the programmer to write the firmware to the ProVari, and the programmer carries out the command. What Provape should have done is use a different connection protocol that lets the user connect the P3 directly to a PC. Provape then could have made the updating software available to the end user so he or she can carry out the upgrade. The programmer is completely unnecessary and it's a very outdated way of doing things. It's not like we're living in the 1990's. Provape needs to take a step into modern times. And if they don't and go out of business because of it, well, that's what they deserve. Adapt or die.
Woulda Should Coulda...
Their Business, is Their Business.
Don't like it, don't buy it... Then you could say you did em in.
Or perhaps, They won't offer an upgradable device in the future.
In the mean time, you could buy a chinesezee mod, and hope it works for longer than 6 months.
Just my opinion, Jim
A USB port on a ProVari would have to be between the button and window and would look and feel horrible...
And USB charging is so slow that I often find myself swapping batteries instead of waiting, on the mods that provide the option. The only ones that charge quickly enough (for me) are my EPM's, which use a camera charger and are lighting fast (dual 18490's charge fully in about 20 minutes).
USB, meh.
Perhaps because the firmware also contains the safety features? Like not firing below a certain resistance? Perhaps because improper firmware could damage the hardware? etc....
The positive contact on the board is also a direct connection to the chip, otherwise they wouldn't be able to update it. User upgradable firmware only requires a different connection protocol and a cable with a connection the the P3 board and a USB connection on the other end.stevegmu said:
It's the same for the firmware of the SX Mini yet that is user upgradable. Was that you whole argument?Robert Cromwell said:
This is the song that never ends...
It just goes on and on my friends...
Some people started singing it not knowing what it was...
And they'll continue singing it forever just because...
This is the song that never ends... (rinse and repeat)
(well y'all get the point)
LOLz, Jim
Have you seen the inside of a ProVari? People would damage the board trying to fish a USB cable in there and ProVari would have to be larger to accommodate the extra hardware...
I didn't say Provape deserves to die. I said that if Provape cannot adapt to a fast evolving vaping market and they go out of business as a result, that's what they deserve. I mean, there was a time when Provape was a big player and people always recommended their products. Now they're just a dinosaur, and I can't think of anyone who would recommend them (except the Provape fanboys) when there are so many terrific mods on the market. Just take the DNA200 for example... it comes with software that allows the user to tailor it to their needs, is user upgradable and delivers enough power for the biggest cloud chasers. Provape on the other hand offers nothing compelling. A clunky one button menu and only 20 watts of power. That's it. How many units do you think Evolv will sell and how many units do you think Provape will sell? And why is this? Because Provape has failed to adapt. They're living in the past and you cannot sustain a business on a couple of thousand loyal customers.
They can use the same connector they use now to connect the board to the programmer and a USB connection on the other end.
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