Why Sub ohm regulated vape?

[i_L1fe]

Been vaping since end of 2011.

This same old question surfaced after spending 1/2 hr at local vape shop just to see what was new for helping beginner vapers. Once he knew I wasn't new to vaping everything that he had to share was regarding sub ohm.

Still to this day I am trying understand the appeal of sub ohm on regulated devices.

I understand the mechanical mod using lower bat voltage. So build lower ohm coil due to lower volts to get your preferred wattage. Obvious and clear.
This style of vaping a smaller coil (low ohm) never appealed for my preference of vaping. I've always preferred larger coils with higher volts (regulated device 15-40W). Basically more surface area wick/coil = more flavorful vape. (Perhaps where I am wrong)

Now that regulated devices are capable of pushing high amount of volts/amps...what is the sub ohm appeal on a device capable of pushing say 9V? Why go for the small coil and low voltage. Why not go for larger coil (higher ohm) high volts?

Even with a large coil...these newer devices pushing tons of power lite up the coil instantly...So I don't see a heat up time delay being a factor?

Just curious to see what the thoughts are regarding these two different styles. Not saying ones better than the other....

 

[Ryedan]

Been vaping since end of 2011.

This same old question surfaced after spending 1/2 hr at local vape shop just to see what was new for helping beginner vapers. Once he knew I wasn't new to vaping everything that he had to share was regarding sub ohm.

Still to this day I am trying understand the appeal of sub ohm on regulated devices.

I understand the mechanical mod using lower bat voltage. So build lower ohm coil due to lower volts to get your preferred wattage. Obvious and clear.
This style of vaping a smaller coil (low ohm) never appealed for my preference of vaping. I've always preferred larger coils with higher volts (regulated device 15-40W). Basically more surface area wick/coil = more flavorful vape. (Perhaps where I am wrong)

Now that regulated devices are capable of pushing high amount of volts/amps...what is the sub ohm appeal on a device capable of pushing say 9V? Why go for the small coil and low voltage. Why not go for larger coil (higher ohm) high volts?

Even with a large coil...these newer devices pushing tons of power lite up the coil instantly...So I don't see a heat up time delay being a factor?

Just curious to see what the thoughts are regarding these two different styles. Not saying ones better than the other....

There are two main variables with coil design, surface area and mass. Air flow in the atty is also a key contributor to the way they will vape, but let's assume that is appropriate for the power. You can make a 0.25 ohm coil with the same surface area as a 2 ohm coil (different wire gauge is required) and run both successfully at 50 watts. You can design both coils to have more or less surface area. The 2 ohm coil will however have less mass which means it will heat up and cool down faster which is good. Both coils will apply the same watts per square inch so the vape will be very similar all other things being equal.

A lot of people don't know this yet. Old habits die hard so it will take a while

 

[roxynoodle]

Because I prefer building dual coils with 26 gauge wire, and don't want 20 wraps per coil its harder for me to use 28 even though I prefer that gauge for single, opposite lead coils. Can't tell you why, but that's just the way it goes for me.

30 or 32 gauge? Forget it, I would be so frustrated trying to get nice, tight wraps, I would throw it.

 

[novamatt]

The biggest reason to subohm with the regulated high wattage mods is the limitations of the devices themselves. If someone wants to push 100 watts on a Sigelei, for example, they can't do it with a 1.5 ohm coil. The device can output a maximum of 8.5 volts, so to get that 100 watts, they need to be under .7ohms or so. That's not exactly super sub-ohm, but it's still under 1.

The other thing is that there are so many variables that affect how a coil vapes, and a lot of mech users are trying to match their existing vape, so they stick with what they know.

 

[beckdg]

because no 30+ volts yet.

 

[beckdg]

There are two main variables with coil design, surface area and mass. Air flow in the atty is also a key contributor to the way they will vape, but let's assume that is appropriate for the power. You can make a 0.25 ohm coil with the same surface area as a 2 ohm coil (different wire gauge is required) and run both successfully at 50 watts. You can design both coils to have more or less surface area. The 2 ohm coil will however have less mass which means it will heat up and cool down faster which is good. Both coils will apply the same watts per square inch so the vape will be very similar all other things being equal.

A lot of people don't know this yet. Old habits die hard so it will take a while

for some reason the logic breaks down in the bolded for me. my logic says the 2 ohm coil with the same surface area and less mass will vape tremendously hotter and faster than the .25 ohm coil with the same power applied.

forgive me if i'm missing something. and by all means, point it out to me. please.

 

[tj99959]

Why Sub ohm regulated vape

IMO either one makes the other irrelevant. Watts don't care which math formula you use.

for some reason the logic breaks down in the bolded for me. my logic says the 2 ohm coil with the same surface area and less mass will vape tremendously hotter and faster than the .25 ohm coil with the same power applied.

forgive me if i'm missing something. and by all means, point it out to me. please.

Watts only heat the coil, wicking & air flow cool the vape.

It's no problem at all making either vape to hot or to cool without changing the wattage.

What you actually do with massive coil builds is reduce the chamber size of the atomizer.

 

[beckdg]

IMO either one makes the other irrelevant. Watts don't care which math formula you use.



Watts only heat the coil, wicking & air flow cool the vape.

It's no problem at all making either vape to hot or to cool.[/FONT][/COLOR]

resistance, current and power limits do dictate that one might have to sub ohm on some regulated devices to reach their full potential. wire gauge and how that affects mass and resistance dictates that the vape will be tremendously different even with the same power output (watts), wicking and air flow.

it's not a math formula. it's practical physics in the form of thermal dynamics, fluid movement and electrical properties. you need all the math problems involved to tell the whole story.

 

[tj99959]

resistance, current and power limits do dictate that one might have to sub ohm on some regulated devices to reach their full potential. wire gauge and how that affects mass and resistance dictates that the vape will be tremendously different even with the same power output (watts), wicking and air flow.

it's not a math formula. it's practical physics in the form of thermal dynamics, fluid movement and electrical properties. you need all the math problems involved to tell the whole story.

Been saying that for years, but this part of that formula remains a constant.

IMO either one makes the other irrelevant. Watts don't care which math formula you use.

It's how the watts are used that makes the difference.

 

[AttyPops]

Because "resistance is futile"?

The sub-ohm thing is a trend. Maybe even fad, but more likely a trend. May continue forever, IDK. There's plenty of vape at standard ohms, with standard coils, at standard gauge...and longer battery life. Some have just "been assimilated". Meh.

There's even indication that high wattage (we really need to be discussing watts per area) vaping can produce more "nasties" due to overheating the PG/VG...acrolein and such. Then there's the argument that using heavy gauge wire spread the heat more.

What it really takes is proper scientific study...and most of the studies done are waaaaaay off in their process/procedures.

One thing you can bet on is that a regulated device will produce more consistent and controlled results...whatever that result is. The problem with mechs is that they start off at 4.2 volts and then drop. The "swap point" is largely up to the user too. So they tend to make a coil, not for 4.2 volts, but for say 3.9 volts, or even 3.6/3.7 like they should (from a battery perspective). So that initial 4.2 volts is "extra heat" until the battery level drops to whatever they personally consider "the norm".

 

[Lilvapie]

The lower ohms draw MORE amps from the battery. More amps means more vape. For example, The Atlantis does just that as a regulated device and shall only be used with the correct battery.

 

[twgbonehead]

I agree completely with the OP. Higher voltage, higher ohms, lower current (and therefore lower losses and less heating of the contacts).

Been working on a 4-cell-in-series mod with a buck regulator.

 

[twgbonehead]

The lower ohms draw MORE amps from the battery. More amps means more vape. For example, The Atlantis does just that as a regulated device and shall only be used with the correct battery.

No, it's primarily more POWER that means more vape. If you're using a mech mod, or a regulated mod with a limited output voltage range, the only way to get more power is through lower resistance. But this isn't a given; a regulated mod could, for example, boost a 3.7V battery to 48 volts. The presently-available ones don't.

 

[novamatt]

The lower ohms draw MORE amps from the battery.

Yes.

More amps means more vape.

No. More amps means more stress on the battery. More surface area hot enough to vaporize juice and/or more airflow means more vapor. As does more power (as in watts). You can get any of those things with lower current draw (amps) using higher resistance coils.

For example, The Atlantis does just that as a regulated device and shall only be used with the correct battery.

Huh? The Atlantis is a tank. A regulated device is a mod with variable voltage or wattage. Completely different things.

 

[inswva]

Yes.



No. More amps means more stress on the battery. More surface area hot enough to vaporize juice and/or more airflow means more vapor. As does more power (as in watts). You can get any of those things with lower current draw (amps) using higher resistance coils.



Huh? The Atlantis is a tank. A regulated device is a mod with variable voltage or wattage. Completely different things.

To add one small point of clarification - lower ohms does *not* mean higher battery current drain in a regulated, variable wattage mod. A .3ohm coil will pull the same amount of amperage from the battery as a 1.5ohm coil assuming equal wattage settings. Resistance in a regulated VW mod only determines output voltage.

 

[novamatt]

To add one small point of clarification - lower ohms does *not* mean higher battery current drain in a regulated, variable wattage mod. A .3ohm coil will pull the same amount of amperage from the battery as a 1.5ohm coil assuming equal wattage settings. Resistance in a regulated VW mod only determines output voltage.

Right. I was trying to keep it basic - the post I was responding to referred to the Atlantas as a regulated device, so I guessed at the poster's knowledge level and tried not to complicate things. Current draw in a regulated device is based on real-time battery voltage and wattage settings. I just didn't want to confuse anybody.

 

[beckdg]

It's no problem at all making either vape to hot or to cool without changing the wattage.

@ 40W that 2 ohm coil will heat (and likely over heat) instantly... and the .25 ohm coil might not produce vapor <edit for tj>given the same surface area on both coils</edit>.

the difference in mass for which the temperature has to rise will be tremendous.

 

[edyle]

Been vaping since end of 2011.

This same old question surfaced after spending 1/2 hr at local vape shop just to see what was new for helping beginner vapers. Once he knew I wasn't new to vaping everything that he had to share was regarding sub ohm.

Still to this day I am trying understand the appeal of sub ohm on regulated devices.

I understand the mechanical mod using lower bat voltage. So build lower ohm coil due to lower volts to get your preferred wattage. Obvious and clear.
This style of vaping a smaller coil (low ohm) never appealed for my preference of vaping. I've always preferred larger coils with higher volts (regulated device 15-40W). Basically more surface area wick/coil = more flavorful vape. (Perhaps where I am wrong)

Now that regulated devices are capable of pushing high amount of volts/amps...what is the sub ohm appeal on a device capable of pushing say 9V? Why go for the small coil and low voltage. Why not go for larger coil (higher ohm) high volts?

Even with a large coil...these newer devices pushing tons of power lite up the coil instantly...So I don't see a heat up time delay being a factor?

Just curious to see what the thoughts are regarding these two different styles. Not saying ones better than the other....

The answer to the question is that people with experience through trial and error, know what coils to build at what gauge for what power level, based on 4 volts.
They don't know what combination to build for 9 volts and it would take them some trial and error to get there; on the other hand their inclination is to use thick and thicker wire, but to use the high voltage, you need thinner wire instead.

 

[tj99959]

@ 40W that 2 ohm coil will heat (and likely over heat) instantly... and the .25 ohm coil might not produce vapor.

the difference in mass for which the temperature has to rise will be tremendous.

I can probably build 100 2ohm coils 100 different ways.
So you're saying that it has to takes more material to build a 0.25ohm coil than it does to build a 2ohm coil?!? That's silly! The point is that you CAN use more, if you want to.
What if I was to use the same gauge wire?????????

AGAIN, the wattage (or resistance) makes no difference, it's how we use them that does.

but to use the high voltage, you need thinner wire instead.

Don't forget that length of wire has the same effect as gauge of wire.
Don't forget that diameter of wrap has the same effect as number of wraps.
This list just goes on and on.

 

[Lilvapie]

Yes.



No. More amps means more stress on the battery. More surface area
hot enough to vaporize juice and/or more airflow means more vapor. As does more power (as in watts). You can get any of those things with lower current draw (amps) using higher resistance coils.



Huh? The Atlantis is a tank. A regulated device is a mod with variable voltage or wattage. Completely different things.

Yeah. The Atlantis is a Cartomizer.

Yes. The lower ohms the more amps it will draw, the more
Vapor production provided the build
Is correct, whether regulated or not.

Don't think sub ohms produces more vapor? then go hang out with those vape nerds that have competitions. Clouds of vapor with sub ohm.