Why the ego c twist is a game changer

Discussion in 'eGo Type Models' started by dham340, Jun 3, 2012.

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  1. dham340

    dham340 Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    So I just want to put something out and see if I can generate some discussion. After using the ego-c twist battery today, I assert that this product is the most important, game changing device since the DSE 901 and original joye ego.

    So here's my reasoning. I'll note up front: All my "evidence" is merely my perception and belief from just hanging around the community since 2007. In other words, everything here is my opinion, I've got nothing to back it up. That said, please bear with me and read this very long post. I'm really interested to hear what people think.

    Most folks who come to vaping from smoking are looking for a way to quit without quitting, if that makes sense. More likely than not, they have tried gum, patches, cold turkey without success. More often than not, they are introduced to ecigs via some kiosk in the mall and pay incredibly high prices for basically low end devices. The only good news about this is that these low end devices are better than the ones you found in these kiosks several years ago. The bad news is that unless they are lucky, many of these newbie vapers will go back to smoking. The reasons are varied, but I am going to assert that the root cause is really two things: inability of low end devices to deliver the VTF needed to successfully replace smoking with vaping and, their ignorance that there are other devices that will meet their needs. For the lucky ones, they find their way to this or the various other ecig communities. At that point, their chance of success increases dramatically due to the incredible nature of these communities -as a result, more likely than not, these newbies end up with a 510 device of some sort, almost always, an ego or a knockoff.

    So, here's where the ego twist has its first potential game changer: soon, I have to assume that many, if not all, ego starter kits will come with at least one twist, if not two. The implication of this is powerful: at the very beginning of a vaper's experience they have - either in their hands or very cheaply (as little as $20) a true variable volt device.

    Look through the "what's new" search results of ECF every day for a week. Inevitably, there is thread after thread asking essentially the same two questions: what can I do to keep vaping or, why is my ecig not performing. I'm going to assert that the root cause of these threads is really this: "help, I may go back to smoking!" Now, most folks here know that these issues are solved in a couple of ways: getting a better performing device, upping (or lowering) the nictotine content of the users juice, or finding a better tasting juice.

    My contention is that, generally, a VV device will solve - partially or fully - these issues. Yes, it won't fully solve the nic or taste issues fully - but, VV has the potential to make a less desirable tasting juice a bit better or, give a better throat hit to a lower nic juice. But up until now, the only way to get a newbie to a better device was basically recommend a MOD. To be quite frank, as a community and as an industry, despite all the awesome mods, things are just too confusing: volts vs. watts, cartos vs. attys, dripping, tanks, ohms. To be honest, after all these years vaping even I get confused sometimes. Luckily there is a great cottage industry of youtube vapers who provide a great service with reviews and education on these issues and such. Even so, until now, there has not been a simple consumer friendly device that could meet 75% of vaper's needs.

    I content that what the ecig world needs is the "iPod of ecigs": simple, small, nice looking, good performing, easy to use and meets most vaper's needs. The ego-c twist may not be that device 100%, but it's damn close. Damn close. If the twist does make it into the starter kits, the first response to any issue a vaper might have should be, simply, twist the bottom cap and see if that solves your problem. powerful.

    Now, I am making the assumption that most users will end up with ego kits early in their vaping lives and, I am also assuming, obviously, that the twist finds its way into those kits. Moreover, I am also assuming that the ego knock-offs will copy the twist. But, I think these are all safe assumptions from watching this industry essentially since it's inception in the US.

    This post is not really a review of the twist per se, I'll refer you to others who do a better job of those for that (I'd recommend starting with pbusardo's YouTube review and I suspect grimmgreen will have one up shortly). But, I guess I should say a few things about the device.

    EDIT: gonna add something neon mentions below that I missed pointing out and I think is essential for folks to know if they are not familiar with the twist. I'll just paste his words here:

    And its regulated, we're talking 4.8 Volts under load!

    [/EDIT]

    In essence, it's a lavatube in an ego form factor. For 20 or 30 bucks, not 50 to 70. In fact - and I know I am gonna get slammed for this comment - it goes a long way to being a good subsitute for a provari or Kicked SB or other tube mod. I think it goes without saying that given the twist's pricing, buying a lavatube is probaby not worth it now. Yes, I know, I know, there's no way that can be true but my contention is that for most vapers, the "extras" that these high end devices provide aren't worth it *for them*.

    Now, the twist has got its negatives : there's no display (although I'll argue: why do you need one?). If you vape above 4.8 volts consistently, it's not for you. It's battery life is not comparable to these high end mods with AWR batteries. All true. But. It's. 20. Bucks. And its a tried and true device: the ego with the addition of the exact same circuitry and protections in the lavatube and (I believe this is a correct statement, but I could be wrong) the provari. Its small, has decent battery life and performs just like it should (check out pbusardo's video for the data). I think alot of people would agree that it's the best VV device for the money available today.

    Which brings me to game changer #2: as the twist gains traction among the ecig community I think it's going to force a significant price drop at the high end. I mean: is a display and a bit longer batter life worth $100 more if you vape at 4 or 4.5 volts all the time? Even if you vape at the "sweet spot" 5V, 4.8V may be close enough. Moreover, with those devices (and again, I'm assuming you dont vape over 5V consistantly) are bigger and heavier.

    That said, there is going to still be a need for these high end devices. I know that a not insigificant percentage of this community vape above 5V or at 6V. But, If things go as I think they are gonna go, basically economics says that the twist is going to pressure the high end by taking away potential users. And sadly, we may see some of these high end mods go by the wayside simply because it doesn't make economic sense to keep producing them. Those high end devices that survive are going to have to do it either at a lower price point or by providing additional benefits and features to justify an additional $100 or $150.

    Anyway, that's basically my rant. I could be wrong. I know there have been a couple of ego type VV devices before this that didn't reshape the industry. I guess I am assuming that this time it's different for a couple of reasons: same circuitry,the most popular manufacturer, the most popular form factor with the significsnt potential to make VV the standard for all starter kits. Not to mention that based on my usage and seeing some reviews from others, the twist delivers performance-wise. Really well.

    So, please have at it and tell me where I'm wrong or, maybe even more interestingly where you think the industry is going (maybe vv is not the future and variable wattage is). Thanks for reading this far.

    Regards, Dan
     
  2. base234

    base234 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    Very thoughtful and insightful post, Dan. You could very well be right. I can't comment because mine is on the way. After using it, I may be able to add something to the discussion.

    Edit: I agree that someone soon will be offering a starter kit with 2 batteries and atomizers , cartos or tanks.
     
  3. donnah

    donnah Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I agree! I was impressed when I saw pbusardo "s review. I also think there is a big market for this device. I've found a new device to recommend. :)
     
  4. JudeD

    JudeD Super Member ECF Veteran

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    I have two 1000 mah Twists and 2 650 mah Twists and I love them. I have been recommending them to new vapers. Many of them are going to start with an eGo type kit anyway and then move up to VV, so for about the same price, they can start with a Twist and experience VV in an easy to understand, not overwhelming way. I was amazed by how easy the Twist was to use and what a difference a little twist of the dial made to my vapor temp and production.
     
  5. martinc

    martinc Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Its called evolution,the way the electronic market goes these days (and for the last 10 yrs) is amazing.

    Just have to steer clear from always having the latest and greatest,that gets costly fast.

    Well,who am I to say that.
     
  6. kingcobra

    kingcobra Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I don't want to spoil the party here but the only people who are so price sensitive is outright newbies. Once you realize how cheap it is to vape, the thousands of dollars you can save a year with it, then $50 or $100 or even $200 becomes much less meaningful. In fact a lot of vapers go crazy here and end up with a table full of expensive mods.

    Now if we think back to when we first started vaping, spending a couple of hundred bucks or more on a PV seemed pretty far out. Then we realized that it wasn't so crazy after all.

    I started with an ego and to be honest I ended up hating the stuff and giving it away to someone, who I then felt sorry for. New people don't know the difference maybe but if they start out with a crappy PV then they are less likely to stick with it. I would not recommend egos a through z to anyone.

    Sure, being able to twist it and change the voltage certainly can't hurt. This is however not what we would consider a good VV device, which you can change the voltage in small increments. Small increments can make all the difference by the way.

    You can get actual VV devices so cheaply now that there is no reason for anyone not to start out with a good one, unless you are on a super tight budget. However, just by cutting down on smoking you can pay for several good ones in no time at all.

    It wouldn't hurt I guess for someone to buy a couple of ego-c batteries, and you do need at least two of these, but the expectation is that if they stick with vaping and once they realize what else is out there for not a lot more money, they will be putting away the egos. So I'd recommend that people start out higher on the food chain, egos are the eels of the PV world really, the bottom suckers :D
     
  7. Tezcatlipoca

    Tezcatlipoca Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I'd have a hard time disagreeing with anything that you've written there, Dan. This truly is The People's PV and the shape of things to come. It gives people control over their vape for a reasonable price. It's sleek, trouble-free, and user-friendly. It's closer to the size and shape of a cigarette, and it's pocketable, which should also appeal to people trying to quit. Once this comes with a passthrough and/or a battery-life gauge, it will be THE portable device, bar none. As it stands there's nothing comparable in this price range.
     
  8. 2GLR

    2GLR Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I agree with the op if joye can fix their current delivery systems. The T and C are great concepts, but are horrible in practice. This alone will cause alot of people to move away from ecigs.
    On the other hand if they can fix this, I believe the mod industry will take off even faster, unless they can build a 2000 mah twist.
     
  9. MickeyRat

    MickeyRat Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I'd say it'll be a game changer for Notcigs and Provape too. :) Maybe for Vapage as well. VV isn't going to be special much longer. I can see very quickly that VV will be expected on every device that isn't trying to imitate a cigarette. Reo's moving to VV. Notcigs still has the VVPV but, Provape needs to add to its line.
     
  10. OnnaB

    OnnaB Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aside from a gifted 901 a couple years ago, I have kept the eGo. I only this week bought the 900mah bats...up from my 650's. I like the size and feel of the eGo...period. The bats last 6-8 hrs and I vape just fine with them. I look at the SB, Provari's, and others...but, A) I really can't afford to throw that much at once into a mod. B) I don't need the VV...I'm quite happy with what I have.
    I do believe there will always be a market for the higher end PV's, but I also believe that most vapers are average Joe's...and they don't need or want a Mazerati when the Honda will get them there. I have been curious if VV would be better, but if I DO try it, the eGo VV will be for me.
    Good discussion, dham!
     
  11. N rustica

    N rustica Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    playing around with removable batteries is a total drag and it also adds additional risk to vaping. i doubt provari could come out with a self contained pass through unit like the darwin for less than 300 bucks.

    i think not being able to easily see the numbers is a strength of the ego twist. it's forced me to feel it out, find the right setting, leave it alone and just enjoy it.

    i've noticed a kind of neurosis on the forums and youtube amongst the vv crowd, always measuring, comparing and fiddling. it's painful and sickening to watch.

    time will tell the real truth about the twist, if they start pooping out in 2 or 3 months, that might be a deal breaker for me.
     
  12. dham340

    dham340 Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    King,

    I see the points you are making but not sure I agree totally.

    First, while you are right on the cost of vaping vs. cost of ecigs, I'd still assert 150$ for a mod is a big jump. If it weren't everyone would be running around with provari's or Darwin's. Even an SB is gonna set you back over $100 to start. Look at all the fuss that happened when the lavatube came out. People went gaga for it on the promise that it was a 1/2 price provari. Turns out that was not the case, but still I think there is a general perception in the community that $100 or $200 mods are a big investment and it's not just newbies.

    As for ego's being "junk", well I have to disagree with that characterization. True or not, I think the perception is that the ego is a "mid line" PV - the midpoint between the blu/volt type PVs and the Provari's/Darwin's. Now you personally my have found it to be junk, but I don't think you would have many people agree with you.

    On the twist specifically: How small of a increment is good enough? 0.2V ? Twist can do it. 0.1V? Yup, does that too. I think (and I am not sure), the "twisty" nature of it allows even finer tuning between each 0.1v but I could be wrong. Now, I agree the fidelity of the twist is limited by the non-digital mechanism but it's still gonna go from 3.2 to 4.8V in 0.1 increments.

    Finally, my whole "rant" above was based on the assumption that ego type devices are the PV "standard". Many more people vape them than anything else. Now this may be wrong, but I'm willing to bet its not.
     
  13. milo hobo

    milo hobo Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I started out with an ego, not a kiask or convient store e-cig. I still think that eGo is a good start for most people. A standard eGo provides the voltage to help most people see that this whole e-cig thing isn't just a scam. Something like an eGo twist gives an even better chance for new people.

    Have I tried an eGo twist? No. Do I plan to? No. But given the speed at which Joyetech is evolving, they are going to further cement themselves into a corner stone of the vaping communitity. It seems to me that the eGo is on the cusp of pv and apv. I don't believe that they will take over the market, but they will be one of the big names in e-cigs with good reason (quality and consistancy) for many years to come.
     
  14. Tezcatlipoca

    Tezcatlipoca Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    How small of voltage increments are you talking about, Kingcobra? The wheel at the bottom of the Twist has hash-marks at every .2 volts, but it doesn't click into place or anything like that. It's a smooth turn and it's been tested to be variable to at least .1 volt increments.

    Edit: You beat me to it, dham340!
     
  15. dham340

    dham340 Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Yeah, I should have made this clear in the original post : I'm using the Twist with LR Boge cartos and tanks and not using the T or C tank system, both of which I found to be wanting. I don't disagree that out of the box, joye needs to either go full carto or get a better tank system. However, using the twist essentially as a "mod replacement" - i.e. with good attys (I use HH.357), LR cartos, carto tanks - makes it fully comparable to a mod.
     
  16. bnrkwest

    bnrkwest Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I think VV ego's are fabulous. The size is right, they are light, tons of clearos made for them, they are the take where ever you want device. I don't have a twist yet but do have the VV ego with the lights and it does perform better than the basic ego. I also have a Provari and I do think it is better because it does more but I don't like taking it out of the house because I don't want to loose or drop it. So a VV ego is the unit to take everywhere and very affordable for everyone. bnrk
     
  17. dham340

    dham340 Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    All points I should have made above. Joyetech quality and consistancy is the cornerstone of my argument above.
     
  18. redbucket

    redbucket Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    My eGo clone has kept me off smoking for seven months, and this is significant, but I was never a true addict. All our lives are different, all I can do is preempt my eGo fanboy comment with my background. I've smoked from age 18, and until I discovered e-cigs at age 30, I never went more than a couple weeks without smoking tobacco. At the most, I smoked a couple packs of camel turkish golds per week. But I went months without smoking, too. Any time I took a long car ride, though, I smoked, and once I took a cross country trip -- I didn't keep track but I likely smoked a pack a day during that trip. I lived in China for awhile, and smoking was just something people did there without stigma, so I smoked a lot more. I knew this cool guy who sold me his peasant tobacco (which was likely a lot healthier than Chinese cigs) for really cheap, so I did a lot of daily pipe smoking. Anyway, for the couple years before I found e-cigs, I smoked at least one, usually two, cigars per week. I don't think that counts as "addicted". But I obviously have a predilection to, or at least an enjoyment of smoking. E-cigs changed that. I feel less authentic using my eGo batteries than I do smoking, but sensory-wise I really feel just as satisfied. So eGos made a difference for me. Your mileage may vary.
     
  19. dham340

    dham340 Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Do not discount these points rustica makes:

    A truly "standard" ego needs to be "less fiddly". AWR batteries are great but they are one more thing to worry about. Self contained is the future, especially given the recent attention battery discharge got in the press. As is ecigs with protection circuitry. I'd incorporate rustica's comments to my OP.
     
  20. Absintheur

    Absintheur Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Price will make a difference, especially to new vapors but at the same time I have killed a couple eGos while my ProVari just keeps chugging along. Price to me isn't the most important aspect...heck I bought a $90 hand blown tank with matching drip tip today...that is close to what I would spend in 10 days smoking. That is how I rationalize my vaping buys...I look at what I would have spent in a month smoking and allow myself that much for vaping supplies.

    I do like the eGo sized PVs and I will likely own a Twist or two in the new future but it will be more for what it does than for the price point.
     
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