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why you should NEVER buy a screwdriver from TROG.

Discussion in 'E-Cigarette APV Reviews' started by nos2k, Jun 21, 2009.

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  1. nos2k

    nos2k Guest


    Before you read this, realise that this is not an attempt at flaming Trog - this is something i do, cause ive had it with him and i want to warn others so they dont fall into the trap i got caught in.

    Notice also that i have NO , - and i repeat, absolutely NO affiliation with ANY OTHER E SMOKING COMPANY IN THE WORLD.


    First of all, - lets start with a quote from Trog himself, on his message board, where i am now banned. Forever.

    "ps.. just read this dudes SD review over in bunny land.. the pattern is all too familiar.. buy an SD purely to publicly criticize it.. which starts off with this thread.. no shipping notification.. then follows with sh-t packaging and instructions.. instantly moves on to dead atomizers and when he does get one going there is not as much vapour as his janty things then an attack on me for my lack of help..

    all in all a pretty destructive piece of work.. and all within two hours of receiving the product..

    now this guy could be for real but i dont think he is.. which is why he didnt get my help.. so he can have his money back if he asks for it but isnt welcome here.. he is now banned by me.. he can carry on his SD knocking blather in bunny land where he can pretty much say what he likes without sensor..


    So- basically, he just admits to not giving me the help i asked for. If youre interested in why the fuzz is here, go read this thread and the included links:

    But for those of you that doesnt have the time, heres the short version;

    I buy an SD. I dont get a confirmation email, at all. I email him asking for a confirmation email the day after my purchase, and get no answer for an entire day. Then i post on his board, where im being told by others that it should come, and trog is a dependable guy and all that. Late in the evening ( this is almost 24 hours after my purchase ) i get an email from trog saying its been shipped.

    Crappy service imho. Who does online internet shops, and does NOT confirm your purchase of over 100 gbp? I dont know about you, but this is the _least_ i expect an online shop to do. This is 2009, not 1982.

    Then i await my SD, and sure enough it gets here on the morning of saturday. So fast shipping and all is fine, but it doesnt make up for the ****ty packaging. Basically a padded envelope ( which has been manhandled by the postal service, as ALL envelopes are... ) - and inside is the SD in bubblewrap. One layer.

    So, i put in the first atomizer and do 4 puffs and 3 of those puffs taste like chemical garbage and on the fourth puff the atty dies, completely. I put in another atty, and it also tastes god awful. I then spend the next 5 hours (!) on the SCREWDRIVER SUPPORT forum, trying to get help, (as you can see in the link above), where trog himself basically answers me _once_ saying

    "I can send it back for a refund end of discussion, SD is not for everyone"

    - at the time i was puzzled and quite angry about his response, cause who runs an online business and would answer their customers with a "I will refund it, SD is not for you, i dont want to discuss", when he COULD have easily suggested a solution to me, - or asked about my problem. Like _some_ of his board users where actually trying to do.

    But, - today from reading a new post he made on his board ( the post i quoted first ) i see that he thinks im affiliated with another e-cigarette company


    How unnacceptable is it to you people out there, reading this now, that this old paranoid man, has gotten such a delusional warped perspection of time and space that he actually thinks ANYONE in this world cares enough about his business to BUY a screwdriver, and then "fake test" it, to try and scare off people?

    How irresponsible is it to you people, that i was DENIED support, FLAMED on his board, and now banned and hung to dry as a public figure of ridicule on his board, because HE IS WRONG?

    My product failed on me, and i asked for help, and was ridiculed.

    I strongly, - SO strongly, advice anyone who has NOT bought a screwdriver, and who is thinking about it, to NOT buy one. The product itself is "okay" ( allthough mine had crooked battery hookups, two faulty atomizers and ive had to clean it 3 times now ( had it for 24 hours ) in order to get the batteries to connect - and as i type this right now, its NOT working, cause apparently it needs cleaning again..................... ) but the service he provides, or lacks, and the whole paranoid thinking of this man could make you his next target - or next person to get ignored.

    When i first posted on Trog's board, - i was whispered by alot of people, saying "Dont say that" or "Thread carefully he doesnt like public appearances of anything negative".

    What the hell? Since when does people on the supplier/manufacturers board whisper you telling you NOT to make posts about problems youre having with your product? Hellooooo? Is this 2009? *taps microphone*. And mind you, my posts were, to begin with atleast, very very clean and nice.

    Well, ill say the same to you guys as i posted to him which later got deleted (ofcourse, there IS no room for uncensored speak about ANYTHING on his board that isnt happy thoughts on his SD):


    You are not a businessman, - stop playing one.

    The game youre in now, is one that resides in a small pond, and in a small pond the rings of YOUR actions, do reach _every_ shore. So think about what youre doing.

    I was - and am - a *real* customer. And look at what you did to me, because YOU have issues trusting people. What the ****?

    I spent 107 GBP - Thats ALOT of money. The most ive spent on _ANY PRODUCT IN ESMOKING SO FAR_ - on getting YOUR product, and then you ignore me purposely, and now BAN me from getting support, and you RIDICULE me - because YOU - old man - think im in any way shape or form working for another ecigarette company?

    I hope somehow you realised just now, that by doing all of the above, you actually hurt yourself _way_ more than i could have hurt you, IF i was working with an ecigarette company, IF i had bought the SD to try and hurt you with a bad review. But since i am infact NOT affiliated with a company, and since i bought this thing for MY own use - then you just royally screwed yourself.


    And in regards to your "All the people in bunny land" Trog, i find it funny to see a few things here:

    You claim people on are bunnies. Look at your board. Theres only room on your board for people who say nice things about the SD, and doesnt piss you off ( which must be hard ).

    YOU are the one living in bunnyland.

    WE are the ones in a *community* thats open to all.

    So go grab a carrot old man. Youre going to need the vitamins once you get my lawsuit.
  2. tribalmasters

    tribalmasters Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 19, 2008
    United Kingdom
    Trog seems to love himself and think he is always right! He even thought that Sakis, the creator of the GG copied his design!! Well you can't get brass end caps for his Screwdriver nor has he invented a dripping system or a transforming e-cig, still uses solder and can't do more than 3.7 volts! Take that Trog!

    If he ever saw that he would think I work for Sakis, he is just jealous that we got brass end caps and he hasn't!
  3. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    IN USA
    nos2K - the title of this thread and your attack on trog is simply uncalled for.

    I read your other post and was curious at the time why you brought such a highly inflammatory post here to this forum and not address your issues directly with trog.

    Only trog really knows the ins and outs of his device and could have helped you better than anyone on this forum.

    Now you start another highly inflammatory post about trog.

    You've handled this matter worse than a bully on a playground and pretty much deserve the response trog is now handing out to you.
  4. Antig

    Antig Full Member

    Jun 9, 2009
    Los Angeles
    I run an online business and find many key problems here.
    1. Customer is King no matter how irritating or stupid.

    2. Customer service is a priority. Can't get to emails promptly? Get a data plan on the cell phone.

    3. Packaging must be bomb-proof. This is what I'm known for and especially applies to expensive packages. I always offer shipping confirmation. There is no excuse at all for this. USPS offers free boxes of various sizes.

    4. Good English takes you miles. It shows professionalism and settles a customer's worry. Never was too good at it? Take classes at a community college.

    I don't care who is right in this case. I don't even care if you are lying or not, nos2k. These factors are enough to discourage my interest from buying from him.
  5. nos2k

    nos2k Guest


    First off you say

    "I read your other post and was curious at the time why you brought such a highly inflammatory post here to this forum and not address your issues directly with trog."

    I cant speak directly to trog as hes ignoring me. Read the post. If he hadnt ignored me from the start ( due to his paranoia it turns out ) then this wouldnt be a problem at all.

    Trog *refused* to help me, as he "thought" i was working for another E-cig company and only bought his precious SD to make it look bad. Now i bought this thing from, and got it sent TO Denmark. How many e-cigarette manufacturers are in Denmark? None.

    The reason Trog thought i was working for a company is that i praised another company for their service, and spoke well of their products.

    Am i not allowed to do that, without having to then live in fear of someone, in this case Trog, being jealous, being suspicious, and then ultimately ending up denying me help, and being rude to me?

    You, need to re-read everything, and put yourself in my position. Imagine YOU bought a product, and YOU got told off in the only answer by the manufacturer, - and YOU then later on find out he thinks youre working for another competitor, when YOU infact have paid an obscene amount of money for a product that IS a flashlight, with an atomizer. And you actually bought it to begin with to SUPPORT him.

    Then you would be as mad as i am, and rightfully so.

    If you cant understand that, then i pity you. Good news is, theres always room on Trog's own board for another groupie.

    Oh and - the bully in the playground? The bully in the playground is the guy that has the power to do what he wants. Trog is that bully. He sells me a product, denies me support, then REMOVES me forcefully from his website where all official support is channeled. That is the textbook definition of being a bully.

    And Antig: I am glad you can see the issues, and that you are able to detach MY personal experience from what you have seen Trog do and there by agreeing with me, on his unacceptable ways of conducting a business.

    To anyone else:

    I dont care if you agree with me, to be honest. All im doing this post for, is so people themselves can go have a look at this thread, the other threads, and make up THEIR own mind about Trog, before they buy something from him - or recommend him to others. This post is merely a warning, - a "Heads up look what this guy did".
  6. Kelemvor

    Kelemvor Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 12, 2009
    Germany NRW
    but why this vendetta ? he offered you a full refund. period.
  7. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    IN USA
    nos2k - Are you always this obnoxious or are you making a special effort today?
  8. nos2k

    nos2k Guest



    This is not a vendetta - this is something that ruined my weekend. I was looking forward to this thing and when i got it, basically it ruined my weekend, by first not working, then 3 hours of troubleshooting, then 5 hours of forum that went bad, then today where i find out he thinks im someone else, and so on and so forth.

    Its not a vendetta, its a "Guys, - if he can do this to me, what can he do to you, or the friend you recommend buying an SD - Beware, read and make up your own mind".

    Its a common thing to do - and i do believe this post is ONE of the primary reasons we DO have a community like this: To inform and enlighten.

    And why i didnt just return it?

    I spend a ton of time looking at reviews, - at waiting for it, at trying to get it to work, - so why would i be happy with sending it back to england where I would have to pay for the shipping, to get a refund? I payed for something, i expect something : Atleast the decency from his side, to just TRY and ACT like he wants to help me. Is that really so hard to understand?
  9. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    Im just gonna ignore you now. No point in trying to explain logic to a wall.
  10. mamu

    mamu Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 29, 2009
    IN USA

    You had your SD all of 2 hours when you decided to come to this forum and post you tirade against trog.

    You obviously decided not to give trog time to get back to you, even if you did email him.
  11. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    When i posted here, i asked for help - asked if this was how it worked. I told people what MY personal experience was with the packaging ( or lack of ) with the instructions ( or lack of ) and so on.

    Did you notice that i also wrote, in the end, - and even if i was/am super angry at Trog, that i got it to work and that the product itself IS every bit as good as people claim?
    I wrote in here cause i got disappointed, - and asked for help. In that course, i just explained what i thought of the device, BUT did also promise to follow up on the review once i did have it going - and i did.

    I honored my agreement, my commitment to the forum, and my post. All youre doing right now, is looking more and more like someone who has an agenda of some sort.
  12. Fruits

    Fruits Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 27, 2009
    United Kingdom
    I only see 1 bully here, and its not trog :rolleyes: Lots of members tried to help you with suggestions as to why you werent seeing the great product so many of us are. By process of elimination most problems with the SD can be sorted fairly easy, thats why you got many helpfull suggestions from the members of the forum. You were offered a full refund after owning the device for a few hours, without giving yourself time to try other attys, batts etc.You can't complain about that. Your post was one massive rant, no wonder you were viewed with scepticism. When I got my SD packaging was more than adaquate, I don't want fancy boxes that end up in the bin. It looks like you were disappointed from the start as no fancy packaging recieved to make you smile, and nothing would then make you happy with the product.
    Take a step back and realise how much ranting you did in your posts, when a simple email to trog or even a pm would have been more useful.
    I think this thread of yours is well over the top. 8-o
    Im replying as I am very very happy with my ScrewDriver as are many others, so dont take any notice of this guy :D and buy an SD from trog :D
  13. Kelemvor

    Kelemvor Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 12, 2009
    Germany NRW
    your posts are just as over the top as Trogs reaction.
    and yes, if there is so much trouble around Trogs device, resend it.

    you made your point already, any more flaming from your side is very very counterproductive. i already don't give your words the weight they may deserve.

    PS: i don't have anything from Trog and i love Janty ;)
  14. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    And if you dont believe me on why Trog is a bad person to deal with, read the following quotes from his own website, regarding me:


    and email link he just sent me.. i was perfectly correct about the guy..

    now a major complaint about ECF.. i cannot post in that bloody review forum.. these w-nkers know this..

    the place used to have a thread called.. "device dis-preference poll" they use to use this.. fake users with fake anti votes.. a combination of trog haters and rival commercial interest..

    to give him credit joe did remove this particular thread when i pointed out exactly what was happening..

    okay we have commercial interest out to get us and we have simple trog haters out to get me.. bunny land is the perfect place for them to do their work..

    the fake buyer is the most effective weapon..

    when i spot the buggers as i alway do they then claim i am paranoid and nasty.. he he he..

    okay i am what i am warts and all.. i make enemies.. the SD is now a little too well liked for its own good.. its made enemies.. some simply just dont like me.. [​IMG]

    these people do achieve damage.. any damage they do is worth the effort to them..

    but... life goes on.. so will I and so will the SD.. just to clue some folks in about what goes on..



    the whole thing can a plant right from the word go boss..

    it can be all made up not a word of it has to contain any truth..

    it follows a simple pattern.. its starts with why havnt i received shipping information.. they know we dont do this.. the next give away is bad tasting atomizers the classic type complaint in bunny land.. often done to get ... kissing from the seller and bunch of freebies.. some dole out the freebies.. in return the customers spams the product to get more freebies..

    again they know my response to this... he he.. so this leads on to bad service.. and me being not a fit seller.. the customer is god type stuff..

    they are simply trying to do damage and they succeed.. not in a major way but its one (apparent) unhappy customer.. they also know we dont like any... he he

    forums are dangerous places for real people.. real people make easy targets for make up forum entities..

    am i paranoid.. nope.. just aware... he he

    you guys and gals did the right thing.. dont forget it was me that "indirectly" told him to f-ck off..



    So - after you have read that, how can you possibly direct anything bad at me? He admits purely to having told me to **** off. He admits that he thinks im a fake buyer, and at this moment, - right now, he is sitting in his board, patting other forum users backs, while they fondle him, and aaaaaall agree that i was SO fake, and i was SOOOO planted.

    But the only problem is, - im not. Im just a guy who bought a ****ing e-cigarette.

    I honestly hope this thread will give people atleast the desire to check up a bit on trog before they buy anything with him - and thats not cause its a vendetta, but because id sure as hell appreciate it if someone had linked me stuff like this about him before I personally bought with him. Cause then i would have saved the massive amount of cash for an item that now no longer works anyways + the despair of having to go through that ****.

    All i wanted, was a device that people were raving on about.

    All i got was a manufacturer telling me to **** off, and then he flames me along with an entire website full of supporters - by using lies.

  15. Kelemvor

    Kelemvor Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 12, 2009
    Germany NRW

    well, you posted this already in the other thread. so, now it really makes sense what trog says. btw you are turning his words too much around.

    welcome to my ignore list
  16. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    Whatever im tired of this ****. I know some people will atleast read this and see that regardless of whether or not im over the top in their eyes, then trog was way over the top - and the big difference is hes a professional, im a customer.

    I can do as many wrongs as i want, he still should / have to be a professional. And the big picture here, - which many of you dont see - is that he didnt give me ONE chance. Not one. Right from the start he outed me as a fake, and didnt want to support me.

    I DID mail him before i posted. No response. I did PM him, no response. I even PM'ed him after his own response on the boards, no response.

    He also acknowledges this; He ignored me - cause he thought i was fake.

    So please just step off will you? I tried alot of things that didnt work, which is why i ended up ranting more and more on his board, and on here. You would too if the manufacturer ignores you, then tells you basically to fsck off on his own board, and then ignores several pm attempts, and emails - trust me.

    There IS an escalation process to this whole thing; And its not one all of you see immediately - cause you dont see the emails i sent, or the pms, - all you see is one big post of anger. And that anger wasnt present at first, it built up.

    So if anyone else has any problems with me, fine - take it out on me, go ahead i can take it. But i wont even respond to anymore flaming to be honest. I did this thread to enlighten people about something i thought was a horrible experience - to warn other possible customers. And i think its valid, cause no matter how i acted, hes still acting like no business man or professional should. As one guy in this thread says: "I dont care if youre lying nos2k, from what ive seen i wont do business with him after this".

    And THAT is why i posted this. Cause i wouldnt have done business with Trog either had i seen this, and it just bleeding happen to me. I always appreciate when people say good things about their devices, but i do also appreciate when someone has the balls to state the bad stuff, as long as its backed up by evidence, by quotes i can see myself in original form, by stuff i know is true.

    And you can say alot about this thread, but Trog's behaviour is all true - go read it, on his own website.

  17. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    I quoted him. I didnt turn his words. Go look on his board. And thanks for the ignore, you spared me the effort.
  18. boss

    boss Full Member

    May 15, 2009
    nos2k, i was one of the ones that offered some advice and suggestions to you on trog's forum. i realise now that you all along had a hidden agenda. you wasted my time, and the time of a whole lot of other good people on that forum who offered to assist you.

    you must lead a sad little life.
  19. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    Yeah its funny how that works.

    youre right. Except for the fact that i didnt have - and still dont have - a hidden agenda.

    I just sent an email telling Trog that if he does not stop calling me a fake buyer, and if he does not stop dragging me through the mud on his public business forum, then i will infact file a lawsuit against him. I cleared this with my lawyer, so - please, understand now, that im just a person - and that Trog is leading a torch crusade against me, because of his own paranoia.

    Had Trog stepped in once, and just remotely offered me some help, i would have taken it. I would have calmed down. Or rather, i was calm at that point, but it wouldnt have escalated.

    So - stop this bull****, please? You can believe what you want, but my lawsuit threat is more than real, as Trog will find out if he continues. Ive had enough of this.
  20. nos2k

    nos2k Guest

    Last update, before the moderator closes - i asked him to keep it open so i could post this last bit:

    I have just, without asking for it, received a full refund from Trog. The reason i want this to be in this thread is that i am a fair person, and - again not as he thinks - someone who works for another company or infact has another agenda.

    I see this refund (as i also told him in an email) as his way of settling this matter with me, and as a way for both of us to close the subject permanently.

    I would rather have had an apology from him for the slandering - or even better, have had none of this happen in the first place, but i guess its as good a gesture as im going to get.

    I will still stand by my first post here, and say two things - then make of it what you want:

    1) I think the screwdriver - as i said earlier - is a good product, when it works. Its just as good as everyone says - when it works.

    2) I will not recommend anyone ever dealing with Trog - even the refund he gave me now, will not bring my weekend back, - or make me feel better about what ive been put through as a customer. Thats _my_ personal view.

    Im glad to see though that he does have some honor, and in that sense im glad about the refund. I hope he sees this final post, from my side - acknowledging it, as a form of honor on my part to him.
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