FDA Will the FDA regs apply to orders from overseas?

[Chemical Bromance]

"Internal clearances" and 'redflags' and 'reject orders' and other such jargon avoid the question. Will there be interference with adults buying pre 8-8 products OR NOT. So far I'm not finding evidence there will be interference from the Feds. If people here want to create that concern perhaps show some evidence a step up from hearsay.

Where I am, if something is outright confiscated, there's no recourse. Like, don't even go ask about it; you should have known better.
But if something falls into a grey area and is held back, you can go though a letter-writing, form-filling process to try to show that your item is in the clear. It will bureaucracy at its finest.

But, isn't the date 8/8 misleading? I thought the regs retroactively set the approval date to pre-2007, after the deadline of 8/8. So acceptable items had to have been released years ago, not sold last week.

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[Alexander Mundy]

I'm fascinated by that too. The cool guys of the vaping world right now are the popular American Youtube reviewers. They get all the free stuff. Who doesn't envy free stuff? But there are other reviewers in other nations. If we want to watch reviews about new stuff we'll have to watch them. Or may be reviews for US vapers will be like High Times magazine.

Don't forget that the government raided that magazine and took the subscriber list in the late 80's while at the same time it raided a lot of the equipment retailers that advertised in it and took their customer lists. They can't stop a black market, but they can put a dent in it.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

I tweeted them about a week ago asking about samples in store. They tweeted back to email my question to AskCTP@fda.hhs.gov so I did. I got an email a couple days later saying my question would be routed for appropriate response. I'm still waiting for a reply.

So... be my guest.

Good luck with that. I emailed them the week after the Deeming was posted in the Federal Register to ask why they were saying on the FDA website "Did you know that the FDA now regulates all tobacco products?" with emphasis on the "now" and then going to to mention ecigs as one of those regulated.

Retailer Overview of FDA Regulations for Selling Tobacco Products

I received a form letter that had nothing to do with answering my question. I reiterated my question pointing out that I didn't think that was in fact correct until 8/8 by federal law and asking for clarification. Did it 5 more times and never received a reply. I assume someone actually read those and decided to be mum since no more form letters.

Edit: found them in my sent email

"No, my question specifically was that the web page asserts "Did you know that FDA now regulates all tobacco products?" and goes on to list the newly deemed products, however my understanding is this is not in fact a true statement until a minimum of 90 days after official publication. If it is in fact correct that FDA does not currently have authority over the newly deemed products then you should change the false statement(s) on the Web page to reflect that."

 

[Lessifer]

"Internal clearances" and 'redflags' and 'reject orders' and other such jargon avoid the question. Will there be interference with adults buying pre 8-8 products OR NOT. So far I'm not finding evidence there will be interference from the Feds. If people here want to create that concern perhaps show some evidence a step up from hearsay.

Ok, I think I get what you're asking now. Did someone say that the feds will stop shipments of products that are available today from being shipped as of 8/8? I don't think they have any legal right to do that. Now, they could delay something, in order to verify that it is not a product in violation, as in something that was not marketed prior to 8/8, but I don't know if they will do that.

 

[collinsmcrae]

I've watched a couple from Europe but frankly the popular guys like GG and RT have the presentation down. The other guys just aren't as polished and as a result, aren't as entertaining.

I'm also a big gun fan and I kinda wish there were as many varied vape vids as there are gun vids on YooToob.

I think the reviewers will still get new products. Possession is not illegal, so as long as they can work out some semi reliable method of receiving the products, there's nothing to stop them from reviewing them.

 

[Chemical Bromance]

I think the reviewers will still get new products. Possession is not illegal, so as long as they can work out some semi reliable method of receiving the products, there's nothing to stop them from reviewing them.

So the customs/regulatory concession is to have the incoming package marked "SAMPLE", "GIFT" or "FOR REVIEW"?

Hmmm... Curious...

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[eww245]

I don't think this will work, free samples will be illegal.

I think the reviewers will still get new products. Possession is not illegal, so as long as they can work out some semi reliable method of receiving the products, there's nothing to stop them from reviewing them.

 

[collinsmcrae]

So the customs/regulatory concession is to have the incoming package marked "SAMPLE", "GIFT" or "FOR REVIEW"?

Hmmm... Curious...

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I suppose nobody can say exactly what avenues, or what loopholes will be exploited by the reviewers at this time, but I am positive that they will certainly try with all of their willpower to maintain their channels that have a collective of millions of followers.

Just some food for thought, but I know exactly how I would acquire the latest products from overseas via the online black markets, because I "know people who" use the black market to purchase other recreational products, and I've "seen" how it works. Once I have the product, which is not illegal to posess, there would be nothing to stop me from reviewing it, and if I were a reviewer with 300k followers, I would do just that to begin with.

 

[Lessifer]

I suppose nobody can say exactly what avenues, or what loopholes will be exploited by the reviewers at this time, but I am positive that they will certainly try with all of their willpower to maintain their channels that have a collective of millions of followers.

Just some food for thought, but I know exactly how I would require the latest products from overseas via the online black markets, because I "know people who" use the black market to purchase other recreational products, and I've "seen" how it works. Once I have the product, which is not illegal to posess, there would be nothing to stop me from reviewing it, and if I were a reviewer with 300k followers, I would do just that to begin with.

Why would, let's say Kanger, send a product to be reviewed by someone, for a market that they can't legally sell it to? I'm referring to new products after 8/8.

 

[Chemical Bromance]

Why would, let's say Kanger, send a product to be reviewed by someone, for a market that they can't legally sell it to? I'm referring to new products after 8/8.

Well, the reviewer would have a worldwide audience. Just the media value alone would be tantamount to an endorsement.

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[collinsmcrae]

Why would, let's say Kanger, send a product to be reviewed by someone, for a market that they can't legally sell it to? I'm referring to new products after 8/8.

Perhaps they won't. I wasn't saying that the reviewers would still get new gear for free, I was saying that they could still purchase them. And it would be in their interest to do so. For starters, these guys are hobbyists and they are surely going to continue collecting the latest gear, so why not review their purchases and attempt to maintain their hundreds of thousands of followers? All I know for sure is that's exactly what I would do.

If these guys can still manage to stay at the top of the review game, and Kanger can track that a significant number of their products are still making their way to the US, or that the American reviewers continue to influence their sales outside of the US, then perhaps they will pursue loopholes to get their products out to US reviewers for free. Wishful thinking of course, but it's not too far fetched.

 

[bnrkwest]

The FDA has already sent out letters to the various shipping agencies (USPS, Fed Ex, UPS, etc.). As of August 8th, I suspect that all shipments relating to e-cig sales will be automatically forwarded for customs inspection.

Does anyone have copies of this???

 

[Lessifer]

Perhaps they won't. I wasn't saying that the reviewers would still get new gear for free, I was saying that they could still purchase them. And it would be in their interest to do so. For starters, these guys are hobbyists and they are surely going to continue collecting the latest gear, so why not review their purchases and attempt to maintain their hundreds of thousands of followers? All I know for sure is that's exactly what I would do.

If these guys can still manage to stay at the top of the review game, and Kanger can track that a significant number of their products are still making their way to the US, or that the American reviewers continue to influence their sales outside of the US, then perhaps they will pursue loopholes to get their products out to US reviewers for free. Wishful thinking of course, but it's not too far fetched.

It's possible. I just think the vape world is going to look very different not too long from now.

 

[Ipster]

Does anyone have copies of this???

you can see the newly deemed BS at
Vaporizers, E-Cigarettes, and other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS)
per the FDA for manufacturers, importers, retailers, etc)
have fun, and dont forget to give them your 2 cents please.

 

[bnrkwest]

you can see the newly deemed BS at
Vaporizers, E-Cigarettes, and other Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS)
per the FDA for manufacturers, importers, retailers, etc)
have fun, and dont forget to give them your 2 cents please.

It is BS but was wondering if anyone had copies of letters sent to USPS, FedEx, UPS about mailing vape supplies after 8-8.

 

[Endor]

Several thoughts on this:

1) I'm noticing that most vendors are no longer referencing "vape" or "vapor" on their shipping labels in the "shipper" portion. I know this because my regularly vendors, who used to have those terms in the shipper portion, now say things like "Shipping Department". I'm sure this is intentional.

2) As others have said, on August 8th no NEW products can be released. Let's assume that an atomizer from FT is found by Customs. Is it new or existing? Even I can't keep up with the various models, versions, and incantations of all the atomizers out there... how do we expect the USPS (or even the FDA that matter, who can't even answer a simple question posed in an email) to tell the difference? Unless they just start mass confiscation of vape products at the border, which I don't think is legal, I can't see this being a big concern for this particular milestone date.

3) The bigger issue, IMHO, is the age verification, which really impacts online sales (in a B&M it's easy to check IDs). Being a resident of the People's Republic of California, where anything enjoyable is banned, I've already ran into one vendor (ITCVapes) who no longer ships to California due to SBX2-5 raising the age to 21. Now that it is Federal law, every vendor will need to have proper age verification in place. The intelligently-run companies (like Mt. Baker Vapor, who I recently ordered some stockpile from) do, but many still do not. I'm more interested to see how this shakes out.

 

[grandmato5]

I can't find any basis to believe the FDA has authority to stop our ecigs from being imported into the US by individuals or vendors on 8/8/16 simply because they become a tobacco product that day. All regulations I can find that might apply by definition within them of "cigarette" or "tobacco product" would exclude our ecigs.

But the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act does give them authority to be sure our imported ecigs conform to all US regulations AND are not a threat to public health. Everything the FDA has done up to this point leads me to believe they fully intend to use their authority, based on the Tobacco Act, to the fullest extent come 8/8/16. Reasons for refusing importation don't have to be deeming specific. Don't forget that incorrectly marked paperwork and packages are grounds for stopping importation. No doubt some of the packages I've received would never make it through a strict enforcement of that regulation. Lack of the correct childproof caps on ejuice would be another ground for stopping importation that's not deeming specific. And lets not forget anything that strikes them as questionable can be stopped based upon it "possibly being a threat to public health".

Same goes for USPS shipments. Although in this case they can't stop them because that authority comes from the PACT Act and until amended that will not apply to our ecigs. BUT under the Tobacco Control Act they have the same rights to stop our shipping as they do for importation.

Since as a group, we don't tend to be very patient when it comes to our ecig orders , I see a lot of frustration coming our way.

 

[grandmato5]

The FDA has already sent out letters to the various shipping agencies (USPS, Fed Ex, UPS, etc.). As of August 8th, I suspect that all shipments relating to e-cig sales will be automatically forwarded for customs inspection.

Customs doesn't inspect shipments made from one point within the US to another point within the US.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Being a resident of the People's Republic of California, where anything enjoyable is banned,

In my book you win the Internet today.

 

[retired1]

Customs doesn't inspect shipments made from one point within the US to another point within the US.

Read the title of this thread.