Will the P3 be updated to support higher watts/volts?

[coldgin96]

Ohms law has no bearing whatsoever in vapor production... none.

read ohms law and all it's implications from front to back... you will see no mention of vapor production.

Ok, so I'm wrong in thinking watts, volts, resistance has nothing to do with vapor production? The amount (value, whatever) of watts and/or volts as it relates to the resistance of the coils has nothing to do with the amount of vapor I get?

I ask because if I'm going to spout off, I'd rather do so knowing what I'm talking about rather than look like a dumb .

I believe being corrected when I'm wrong is a opportunity in education and I welcome it.

As a side note, when I was using my V2's I would, quite frequently, do the math of Ohm's Law to see what wattage I was kicking out of curiosity.

EDIT: After typing this reply to your reply to my reply to Lem's reply to Steve's reply to Constantlybuying's reply, and upon further pondering, I'm wondering if what you are getting at is Ohm's Law is merely a mathematical equation?

 

[coldgin96]

Wrong editing, reply, can't delete THIS reply....

 

[Zen~]

EDIT: After typing this reply to your reply to my reply to Lem's reply to Steve's reply to Constantlybuying's reply, and upon further pondering, I'm wondering if what you are getting at is Ohm's Law is merely a mathematical equation?

Correct...

Heat... wicking... Airflow.... This is what produces vapor. Ohms law can help you calculate how many watts your coil is drawing, but watts is meaningless in the equation... the amount of heat those watts produce, however is of real importance.

So, if you can produce the same heat with fewer watts, then that is a more efficient way to produce vapor. Low resistance builds are VERY inefficient for a number of reasons, and efficiency will lead to better battery life and better heat production. So, the lower the resistance your build, the more power is lost in the system.
So when it was stated that the factors of build, wicking, etc. were important and you chimed in with ALL that matters is ohms law, well, sorry to say that was not correct. And I'm not going to call you stupid, not by any means, because you figured out what I was getting at, and you were taught incorrectly There has been this idea that if you THROW power at something, it will produce a better result, which is simply not the case.

Let's say you build at .5 ohms... And your mod has internal resistance of .5 ohms as well... 50% of your power will be lost and not turned into heat in your atomizer. NO mod has ZERO resistance (in fact, nothing does) so as you approach the internal resistance of the device, more and more power is lost. The solution? BUILD HIGHER! This makes the inherent internal resistance of the device less of a factor in heat production. Now, we could go ahead and USE ohms law to prove what I'm saying, but again, wouldn't much matter... because ALL that matters is how much heat you produce, and how efficiently you do it.

Once you have heat, you need liquid to get to the heat... this is where wicking comes in.

Once you have wicking... Airflow takes over...

So the truth is, with an efficient build, and a device that can get power to that build, and sufficient airflow and liquid uptake, you can make MORE vapor with less power... and the good news... no... the BEST news.... the less power you use to create that vapor, the better the flavor, because you're not scorching the eliquid, or your wick.

 

[coldgin96]

Correct...

Heat... wicking... Airflow.... This is what produces vapor. Ohms law can help you calculate how many watts your coil is drawing, but watts is meaningless in the equation... the amount of heat those watts produce, however is of real importance.

So, if you can produce the same heat with fewer watts, then that is a more efficient way to produce vapor. Low resistance builds are VERY inefficient for a number of reasons, and efficiency will lead to better battery life and better heat production. So, the lower the resistance your build, the more power is lost in the system.
So when it was stated that the factors of build, wicking, etc. were important and you chimed in with ALL that matters is ohms law, well, sorry to say that was not correct. And I'm not going to call you stupid, not by any means, because you figured out what I was getting at, and you were taught incorrectly There has been this idea that if you THROW power at something, it will produce a better result, which is simply not the case.

Let's say you build at .5 ohms... And your mod has internal resistance of .5 ohms as well... 50% of your power will be lost and not turned into heat in your atomizer. NO mod has ZERO resistance (in fact, nothing does) so as you approach the internal resistance of the device, more and more power is lost. The solution? BUILD HIGHER! This makes the inherent internal resistance of the device less of a factor in heat production. Now, we could go ahead and USE ohms law to prove what I'm saying, but again, wouldn't much matter... because ALL that matters is how much heat you produce, and how efficiently you do it.

Once you have heat, you need liquid to get to the heat... this is where wicking comes in.

Once you have wicking... Airflow takes over...

So the truth is, with an efficient build, and a device that can get power to that build, and sufficient airflow and liquid uptake, you can make MORE vapor with less power... and the good news... no... the BEST news.... the less power you use to create that vapor, the better the flavor, because you're not scorching the eliquid, or your wick.

Well, thank you for taking the time to explain all that. You must know how to type! A lengthy reply such as that would have taken me 3 hours...

My Ohm's Law response was, more or less, a smart alec response to Lem as I have never cared about high watts or huge clouds for that matter. We vape in public and are not interested in huge clouds. Of course we like vapor but if it isn't anymore than the amount of smoke we got from a cigarette, that's cool.

I have always preferred higher resistance coils if, for nothing else, longer battery life. Back in the carto daze, I always purchased 3 ohms and even 4 if available. I prefer 1.8 ohm Nautilus coils over the 1.6 and choose the 2.0 rebuilds.

But hey, my P3 is dialed in at a whooping 10.8 watts as I type. Usually, it's around 9.2

Jackie uses a K4 and has a hard time getting that resistance up for some reason. She's sleeping or I would ask how many wraps her last build is. I just looked and her resistance is @ 1.3 but that's ok I guess. She still uses volts to adjust and has it set @ 3.7 which correlates to 10.2 watts. I have explained in the past the correlation of higher resistance to longer battery life but will remind her. Maybe she doesn't really care because we have a .... load of batteries.

I can definitely see where, once perfected, temperature control is a game changer.

 

[Zen~]

I can definitely see where, once perfected, temperature control is a game changer.

Possibly... The trouble with temp control is the same problem with using any other specification as a control or limiting factor. The only measurement that really matters in the end is pleasure.

Think about this... when you smoked...at how many degrees was your cigarette burning? Didn't know... didn't care.

What matters was you craved one, you smoked one. Urge satisfied, pleasure received.

This is what vaping gear should do, and mark my words, eventually will do!

Like a volume control on your stereo... turn it up or down, set it for your needs at that time.

There is a WHOLE lot of ohms law going on in the background of your stereo... of your television... of anything that has a volume control on it... and you have absolutely no need to ever know how many watts you're at... or how many decibels it delivering. Turn the knob until you're happy. Turn it again when you're not. Screw the science... leave that to the product designers.

The consumers job is to enjoy the thing... and you know why there are so many unhappy vapers? Because with the exception of very few products, the customer has to waste time learning how to use products that were ill-conceived in the first place. If you think about it... making vapor is a lot like making coffee... There's a heating element, it heats liquid, OK...
not to the point of making vapor, but liquid is being heated... can you IMAGINE walking into a coffee shop and needing to know how many watts makes your "perfect brew"? At what elevation were the beans grown? Is the water filtered or unfiltered? Is there some particular stream in the Peruvian Andes where the perfect brewing water is found? And steeping! YES... this double shot mochazeeno needs to steep for 15 minutes before consuming... It's all a little silly, isn't it? Sometimes ya just want a cup of "joe".

Vaping will get there... I see the frustration building, the products that make it easy will arrive.

Until then, a PV3 or classic with a Kabuki is the closest thing to vaping nirvana I have experienced. No need for temp control if you think about it.

 

[stevegmu]

This is why I feel most new vapers aren't getting a good vape. They are so concerned with numbers, rather than vaping by taste. Those who went on and on about ProVari 2.5 not having wattage adjustment just didn't get it. There is no magic number, because conditions are always different. Vaping doesn't occur in a vacuum. Temperature, elevation, the juice, condition of the coil and wick- all factors which no formula can predict.
I see thread after thread about new vapers who can't max out the wattage on their new subtanks and wonder why. They are at 40 watts, but 'need' to get to 60 because that's what the tank has been rated at by the Chinese manufacturer who has never vaped in his life...
I get a great vape from a PV-1; I'm sure better than the guy blowing tasteless, harsh, hot clouds at 100 watts...

 

[k2zs]

Uhm that's def not true. If that were the case there would be no need to VV/VW devices, sub-ohm devices etc. If your theory is correct that means you could vape a standard 3.7 volt battery and get "tons of vapor" from it based on the juice...

You can....

 

[ENAUD]

Possibly... The trouble with temp control is the same problem with using any other specification as a control or limiting factor. The only measurement that really matters in the end is pleasure.

Think about this... when you smoked...at how many degrees was your cigarette burning? Didn't know... didn't care.

What matters was you craved one, you smoked one. Urge satisfied, pleasure received.

This is what vaping gear should do, and mark my words, eventually will do!

Like a volume control on your stereo... turn it up or down, set it for your needs at that time.

There is a WHOLE lot of ohms law going on in the background of your stereo... of your television... of anything that has a volume control on it... and you have absolutely no need to ever know how many watts you're at... or how many decibels it delivering. Turn the knob until you're happy. Turn it again when you're not. Screw the science... leave that to the product designers.

The consumers job is to enjoy the thing... and you know why there are so many unhappy vapers? Because with the exception of very few products, the customer has to waste time learning how to use products that were ill-conceived in the first place. If you think about it... making vapor is a lot like making coffee... There's a heating element, it heats liquid, OK...
not to the point of making vapor, but liquid is being heated... can you IMAGINE walking into a coffee shop and needing to know how many watts makes your "perfect brew"? At what elevation were the beans grown? Is the water filtered or unfiltered? Is there some particular stream in the Peruvian Andes where the perfect brewing water is found? And steeping! YES... this double shot mochazeeno needs to steep for 15 minutes before consuming... It's all a little silly, isn't it? Sometimes ya just want a cup of "joe".

Vaping will get there... I see the frustration building, the products that make it easy will arrive.

Until then, a PV3 or classic with a Kabuki is the closest thing to vaping nirvana I have experienced. No need for temp control if you think about it.

I wish I could like this post 100 times. Yes, many of the products tossed willy nilly onto the marketplace have been ill conceived and or poorly designed/ manufactured. Smoking was easy, open pack, grab cig, flick lighter, enjoy! Vaping was alien and convoluted to me when I started, lot's of half truths told by vendors unloading bad gear, stuff needing to be tweeked to work properly or to be compatible. Very frustrating. I think the time when we are truly "there" with plug and play vaping, will coincide with long term market stability of a particular product.

For example, when the Protank 2 and aerobase hit the streets, that was a product that I felt really was the bees knees. I still use them and will continue to, because they work, and they work well. Yes, I need to re-wick them with cotton because I can't stand the silica build they come with, but regardless, the basic design concept was good. Fast forward and it seems every other week there is a new tank system on the market, or a design change to a multi coil head is made, and the older ones fade away into the twilight... How many different ways can pg/vg be vaporized?

I'm sick and tired of trying new things...I want something that works well, holds up, and know that I can still get coils, and parts for, a year, two years, maybe more down the road. I'm one of those that when I find something I like, I tend to want to stick with it. I don't like the fact that I have to stockpile stuff to make sure that I can keep using my gear, I'm SICK of IT!

 

[coldgin96]

Possibly... The trouble with temp control is the same problem with using any other specification as a control or limiting factor. The only measurement that really matters in the end is pleasure.

Think about this... when you smoked...at how many degrees was your cigarette burning? Didn't know... didn't care.

What matters was you craved one, you smoked one. Urge satisfied, pleasure received.

This is what vaping gear should do, and mark my words, eventually will do!

Like a volume control on your stereo... turn it up or down, set it for your needs at that time.

There is a WHOLE lot of ohms law going on in the background of your stereo... of your television... of anything that has a volume control on it... and you have absolutely no need to ever know how many watts you're at... or how many decibels it delivering. Turn the knob until you're happy. Turn it again when you're not. Screw the science... leave that to the product designers.

The consumers job is to enjoy the thing... and you know why there are so many unhappy vapers? Because with the exception of very few products, the customer has to waste time learning how to use products that were ill-conceived in the first place. If you think about it... making vapor is a lot like making coffee... There's a heating element, it heats liquid, OK...
not to the point of making vapor, but liquid is being heated... can you IMAGINE walking into a coffee shop and needing to know how many watts makes your "perfect brew"? At what elevation were the beans grown? Is the water filtered or unfiltered? Is there some particular stream in the Peruvian Andes where the perfect brewing water is found? And steeping! YES... this double shot mochazeeno needs to steep for 15 minutes before consuming... It's all a little silly, isn't it? Sometimes ya just want a cup of "joe".

Vaping will get there... I see the frustration building, the products that make it easy will arrive.

Until then, a PV3 or classic with a Kabuki is the closest thing to vaping nirvana I have experienced. No need for temp control if you think about it.

I wholeheartedly agree. If I thought temp control was actually needed, I wouldn't have bought a P3 for me and one for Jackie. Still, if it weren't for all the nuances that go with TC at this time, it would be a, "nice" feature to have... possibly in the future....ProVape's perfected version that is...

Btw, I have a power meter on my stereo amplifier. While you are correct in stating there is absolutely no need in knowing how many watts I'm kicking (I bought speakers that can handle more than it's output), it is kind of cool...

I enjoy your analogies and wish more, "clown chasers" would stumble onto your logic...

 

[coldgin96]

I wish I could like this post 100 times. Yes, many of the products tossed willy nilly onto the marketplace have been ill conceived and or poorly designed/ manufactured. Smoking was easy, open pack, grab cig, flick lighter, enjoy! Vaping was alien and convoluted to me when I started, lot's of half truths told by vendors unloading bad gear, stuff needing to be tweeked to work properly or to be compatible. Very frustrating. I think the time when we are truly "there" with plug and play vaping, will coincide with long term market stability of a particular product.

For example, when the Protank 2 and aerobase hit the streets, that was a product that I felt really was the bees knees. I still use them and will continue to, because they work, and they work well. Yes, I need to re-wick them with cotton because I can't stand the silica build they come with, but regardless, the basic design concept was good. Fast forward and it seems every other week there is a new tank system on the market, or a design change to a multi coil head is made, and the older ones fade away into the twilight... How many different ways can pg/vg be vaporized?

I'm sick and tired of trying new things...I want something that works well, holds up, and know that I can still get coils, and parts for, a year, two years, maybe more down the road. I'm one of those that when I find something I like, I tend to want to stick with it. I don't like the fact that I have to stockpile stuff to make sure that I can keep using my gear, I'm SICK of IT!

Golf clap...

 

[madangus]

In front of me i have a provari 2.5 with kfl+ running at a tragically unhip, 1.9 ohms

And a hex ohm with vector rda, dual coil .4 ohm

In terms of flavour, they are even. Sometimes, i like the extra 'clouds' with the dripper, but really in terms of flavour alone not much to choose between em.

Probably next time i will build the vectors higher, say .8

Incidentally also am going through the alice in vapeland sample pack with a P3 and revolt rda... Duchess de leche at 20watts on dual .9ohm is delicious.

 

[Baditude]

In front of me i have a provari 2.5 with kfl+ running at a tragically unhip, 1.9 ohms

And a hex ohm with vector rda, dual coil .4 ohm

In terms of flavour, they are even. Sometimes, i like the extra 'clouds' with the dripper, but really in terms of flavour alone not much to choose between em.

Same here.

2.5 Provari or P3 with a Kayfun Lite Plus @ 1.5 ohm
Silver Bullet mechanical with a Patriot RDA @ 0.6 ohm.​

Both provide the same great flavor, but the sub-ohm dripper makes more vapor.

 

[coldgin96]

Ozzy Osbourne: Blizzard Of Ozz

EDIT: Once again, I posted this to the wrong thread. I can't believe how bad I suck...
I must been thinking of Zen because I jammed to it @ 100 watts per channel and knew that because of the power meter on my amp.

 

[Mowgli]

I broke out my R91 because of all-y'all.
2.2Ω @ ~13W = ok. Better than a Nautilus for my P2.5 w*rkdesk mod.

KangerTech Subtanks are acceptable @ 20W but excel @ 23-25W
P3 @ 25W would be safe.
25W would allow entry-level subtanks to excel on the bestest-made end-game mod.

Arctic .2Ω @ 45-51W on my SX mini M class is delicious.

Velocity .35Ω @ 85W on my IPV3 LI is outstanding.
Flavor coated mouth like nothing MtL can provide.

My advice is if you're content with MtL then don't even try a well setup subohm dripper

"This ProTank on my Vamo is awesome! I'll never need anything better!" - Mowgli 2013

 

[1/2 fast]

So far today I've used a 2.5 with a Russian 91% built to 1.5 ohms at 4.1 volts; a Vapor Shark DNA 30 with a Kayfun 3 @ 1.7 ohms running at 9 whole watts and a P3 with a Lemo II built to 0.54 ohms at (gasp) 18.5 watts.

Flavor is about equal on all three, can't vape the sub- ohm build near as long at a sitting (much hotter) as the other two but it does make a lot of vapor. (And goes through juice like there's no tomorrow). Can't ever imagine myself being able to enjoy a dual coil sub-ohm build at 40, 60 or more watts.

And a little prod at ProVape.....enjoying using the small form factor box mods more and more. Wouldn't have to twist my arm much to pic up a couple ProVari box mods if they appeared on the market. As long as one could tootle puff on them as well as whatever else they might do.

 

[WillyZee]

What I want to know is: How the Hell are people getting ProVape ON THE PHONE?

I got em on my speed dial

 

[coldgin96]

I got em on my speed dial

Of course YOU do...

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

I got my Kanger Subox kit today and man I love this...I'm in cloud heaven!

 

[jwbnyc]

I got em on my speed dial

go Jays.

 

[AstroTurf]

I broke out my R91 because of all-y'all.
2.2Ω @ ~13W = ok. Better than a Nautilus for my P2.5 w*rkdesk mod.

KangerTech Subtanks are acceptable @ 20W but excel @ 23-25W
P3 @ 25W would be safe.
25W would allow entry-level subtanks to excel on the bestest-made end-game mod.

Arctic .2Ω @ 45-51W on my SX mini M class is delicious.

Velocity .35Ω @ 85W on my IPV3 LI is outstanding.
Flavor coated mouth like nothing MtL can provide.

My advice is if you're content with MtL then don't even try a well setup subohm dripper

"This ProTank on my Vamo is awesome! I'll never need anything better!" - Mowgli 2013

Funny thing though...

I don't see a vamo in that pic...

But I spy a couple of Provi!!!


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