WTA is the future
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Well said. I resemble your remarks.
I was finally able to leave behind my few analogs each day when I was able to try WTA. Do I know what I'm vaping and what it's long term effects are? No! 
Do I consider it a lower risk than continuing w/ my 40+ years of analogs. You betcha!
Adding WTA to ejuice is one really good reason the FDA will regulate and tax vaping products.
It is an unknown ingredient that probably contains carcinogens.
This community will no longer exist once that happens. The cost of all the regulations and licenses that will be required to sell nicotine and nicotine delivery devices will drive all the mom and pops out of business. At that point the only businesses able to comply with the regulations and licenses will be Big Pharma and Big Tobacco.
Just how many forums do you see celebrating the different flavors and options to using Big Tobacco's analogs?
WTA is a very dangerous ingredient. Some people on this thread have said, "I've been using WTA for a couple of weeks and feel great without any side affects!"
Well, you know what...
If you smoked analogs for a couple weeks you could probably say "I've been smoking analogs for a couple of weeks and feel great without any side effects!"
Damage done to your body by smoking analogs takes years, but eventually will cause damage. Nobody has died from smoking analogs for weeks or probably months, but they are still extremely dangerous!
Ya know...
If you really can't do without WTA, smoke a few analogs! Don't ruin the freedom the vaping community is enjoying right now just because you want to add cancer causing ingredients back into your e-liquid.
I can read the headlines now: SOME E-CIG USERS ADDING CANCER CAUSING INGREDIENTS TO THEIR PREVIOUSLY SAFE E-LIQUID BECAUSE IT TASTES GOOD!
If you want WTA, smoke analogs. You can buy them at most corner stores or gas stations.
Pete
It is an unknown ingredient that probably contains carcinogens.
This community will no longer exist once that happens. The cost of all the regulations and licenses that will be required to sell nicotine and nicotine delivery devices will drive all the mom and pops out of business. At that point the only businesses able to comply with the regulations and licenses will be Big Pharma and Big Tobacco.
Just how many forums do you see celebrating the different flavors and options to using Big Tobacco's analogs?
WTA is a very dangerous ingredient. Some people on this thread have said, "I've been using WTA for a couple of weeks and feel great without any side affects!"
Well, you know what...
If you smoked analogs for a couple weeks you could probably say "I've been smoking analogs for a couple of weeks and feel great without any side effects!"
Damage done to your body by smoking analogs takes years, but eventually will cause damage. Nobody has died from smoking analogs for weeks or probably months, but they are still extremely dangerous!
Ya know...
If you really can't do without WTA, smoke a few analogs! Don't ruin the freedom the vaping community is enjoying right now just because you want to add cancer causing ingredients back into your e-liquid.
I can read the headlines now: SOME E-CIG USERS ADDING CANCER CAUSING INGREDIENTS TO THEIR PREVIOUSLY SAFE E-LIQUID BECAUSE IT TASTES GOOD!
If you want WTA, smoke analogs. You can buy them at most corner stores or gas stations.
Pete
Not even in my DISTANT future.
WTA isn't the brightest idea, it sounds like something a druggie would try.
WTA sounds about intriguing as a needle in my arm
WTA isn't the brightest idea, it sounds like something a druggie would try.
WTA sounds about intriguing as a needle in my arm
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Some of you people are worse than the FDA.
You are ignoring the facts about WTA & making false accusations.
If you don't want to use it...don't.
As for telling me to go smoke a cigarette instead of using WTA...
Go take a long walk off of a short pier.
WTA is a component of tobacco. Anyone making tobacco liquids using tobacco maceration or absolutes for flavoring is already selling products containing WTA (as well as other impurities).
The FDA will be regulating e-cigs as a tobacco product. This is a done deal. The fear mongering is unfounded.
You are ignoring the facts about WTA & making false accusations.
If you don't want to use it...don't.
As for telling me to go smoke a cigarette instead of using WTA...
Go take a long walk off of a short pier.
WTA is a component of tobacco. Anyone making tobacco liquids using tobacco maceration or absolutes for flavoring is already selling products containing WTA (as well as other impurities).
The FDA will be regulating e-cigs as a tobacco product. This is a done deal. The fear mongering is unfounded.
Pete, what are the facts to support your statement "WTA is a very dangerous ingredient". Not your opinion, but what are your facts to support this statement. I'm not trying to flame you, just looking to understand and comprehend what you stated.
Mike,
Sorry to get up on my soapbox about this issue, but I feel very strongly about adding back POSSIBLY harmful ingredients into e-juice.
I have been flamed about my stance previously, but I can't just stand by while some people say WTA poses little harm to us. Perhaps there isn't any harm , but they have zero facts to back-up their argument. They do not even know what process is being used to strip the WTA from tobacco.
Here is a link to an article in Wikipedia:
Alkaloid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've been flamed for posting an article from Wikipedia, but if you don't trust this information, just Google "Tobacco Alkaloids" and there are an abundance of sites with more information.
Next time the "Kool-Aid" salesmen start talking about WTA, ask them just what alkaloids are being added back into the e-juice. They don't know. That doesn't sound very safe to me.
Alkaloids can be very powerful and dangerous ingredients, just look at some of the alkaloids listed in the Wikipedia article.
Pete
Sorry to get up on my soapbox about this issue, but I feel very strongly about adding back POSSIBLY harmful ingredients into e-juice.
I have been flamed about my stance previously, but I can't just stand by while some people say WTA poses little harm to us. Perhaps there isn't any harm , but they have zero facts to back-up their argument. They do not even know what process is being used to strip the WTA from tobacco.
Here is a link to an article in Wikipedia:
Alkaloid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I've been flamed for posting an article from Wikipedia, but if you don't trust this information, just Google "Tobacco Alkaloids" and there are an abundance of sites with more information.
Next time the "Kool-Aid" salesmen start talking about WTA, ask them just what alkaloids are being added back into the e-juice. They don't know. That doesn't sound very safe to me.
Alkaloids can be very powerful and dangerous ingredients, just look at some of the alkaloids listed in the Wikipedia article.
Pete
This post is completely irresponsible. Especially as I and others have pointed out repeatedly why all your points are wrong.
WTA is a tobacco product (extract), same as standard e-liquid; and they are 99.9% identical. WTA contains only tobacco alkaloids and these are not the harmful constituents of tobacco; nor is there any combustion. The case is essentially identical whether we are talking nicotine-only e-liquid or WTA; i.e. there is no case - e-liquids remove the harmful constituents and the combustion products; the only 'additives' are flavorings and sweetners (maybe a case here)), not WTA!!
The most dangerous thing in WTA is nicotine (the one you feel is so ok) so what's with the scare-mongering ! Your posts are devoid of any facts, or logic.
You state with no regard to fact or logic that 'WTA is very dangerous' and that one would be better off smoking. This is insanity!
People have smoked tobacco alkaloids for decades and never have these been suggested as a harm factor.
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Here is another article.
This one is a little more in depth and concerns just tobacco.
Cambridge Journals Online - Fulltext
Pete
This one is a little more in depth and concerns just tobacco.
Cambridge Journals Online - Fulltext
Pete
That last article was from Cambridge University Press.
It discusses the EXACT alkaloids that you probably think are in WTA. (You still don't know which alkaloids are in WTA though, do you?)
Tell me what in that article makes you think these alkaloids are safe?
From what I gather, it states that by having these alkaloids present with nicotine you will become MORE EASILY addicted! Tell me now, is that a good thing?
Pete
It discusses the EXACT alkaloids that you probably think are in WTA. (You still don't know which alkaloids are in WTA though, do you?)
Tell me what in that article makes you think these alkaloids are safe?
From what I gather, it states that by having these alkaloids present with nicotine you will become MORE EASILY addicted! Tell me now, is that a good thing?
Pete
Read the ECF TOS...this comment is inappropriate.
Your point?
I don't want the tar and 4000 other chemicals in cigarettes.
A few minor alkaloids surely cause me less of a danger.
What is "normal and safe"?
Long term studies haven't proven vaping to be safe.
It has only proven to be less harmful than smoking.
Once again...any e-liquid flavored with extractions or through maceration contains WTA.
It probably contains many other impurities too.
Laboratory produced WTA isolates certain alkaloids.
Other impurities should not be found in WTA e-liquids.
I think has been established.
As stated...the tar and 4000 other chemicals.
Even if I were to concede on this point, the fact remains: WTA is found in tobacco. Vaping is presumed to be less harmful than smoking. The intake of WTA while vaping is still going to be less harmful than smoking. I would much rather vape a few drops of e-liquid containing WTA than smoke a cigarette.
My question to you is: Why are you so vehemently against WTA? It is less harmful than smoking, and may help many people kick the habit for good. No one is making you vape it. It's not being added willy-nilly to all e-liquid. It is a specialty item for those who need it.
That's why many people need WTA to be smoke free. The smoking was for many much more than just nicotine, and for those people nicotine will not work.
It's easy to get scared by medical reports and MSDSs but the point is that the alkaloid extracts are FAR safer than the whole leaf combusted. Many people will not be free of smoking without WTA. It's NOT an additive and it's not dangerous any more than nicotine e-liquid. It's what we have been getting all these years, but which was packaged in a wealth of toxins.
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@Almight -
I guess the point is that the FDA will see it differently, but really there's no difference - both are tobacco extracts.
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Off to sleep now, not stumped or stonewalling or whatever. G'night all
I guess the point is that the FDA will see it differently, but really there's no difference - both are tobacco extracts.
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Off to sleep now, not stumped or stonewalling or whatever. G'night all
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That's what I'm getting from the article below.
I'll admit I didn't read the entire thing yet, but it seems to be examining the addictive properties of nicotine and the other alkaloids. I can't seem to find anything indicating harmfull effects other than increased addictive properties. Did I miss it? I'm talking things like causing cancer, emphysema and heart disease.
WTA is for people who are already addicted. By being able to replicate that addiction in a non-toxic form it can help people stop smoking. So what's not to like?
I would suggest that one could slowly move the ratio of WTA to nic-only to waen off the addiction, if desired; but the key is to be off the TSNAs, the radioactive polonum, the tar and other combustion products in smoke.
Nicotine is highly dangerous, depending on the dose; maybe beneficial to some in low doses. There's no evdence that in the very minute doses of the other tobacco alkaloids that they are harmful. The harmful stuff is removed when making WTA.
Again: WTA is for people who are already addicted. By being able to replicate that addiction in a non-toxic form it can help people stop smoking. So what's not to like?
Nicotine works for some, but far from all. Say the patch worked for you - would you deny e-cigs to others? Because you are trying to deny a safer alternative to millions who otherwise will continue to smoke. Or vaping 24/7 when they could be vaping far less.
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You're pointing to studies that show that the combination of alkaloids is more addictive. Exactly! That's the understanding that leads to an EFFECTIVE safer alternative.
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Really outta here now. For today
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Mainly because I love it and have a good supply that I built up over the last couple years. I originally bought WTA to test whether I could use a PV exclusively but that "trial" completely vanished from my thought when I considered the convenience of Ss. I bike much of the year, I can pop a snus and I'm good for hours. If I was vaping, I'd need to be stopped to do it.
I've broken the hand to mouth habit after all this time so I vape when the mood hits me and I enjoy the contentment of a few puffs. I really like the entire experience of inhaling the WTA liquid but it's not that I need it which is great.
I can even go without snus all day if I forget my can, but I can also stop and pick up a xan of Camel SNUS and enjoy that to. In terms of money, snus costs me less than the cost of a pack of cigs for a weeks supply and I had been going through 2-3 packs a day back in the day. Finally and most important in my mind, with the snus I have no desire whatsoever to smoke and that is all good.
Pete, go back and read my post about the three headed monster. You do not see the benefit because you, at this point in your vaping experience are satisfied by what you get from vaping. I've read others state that they can't live without having a PV in their hand, but it keeps them off cigarettes. That could be okay or long term it could create an issue.
Others try PVs and it still isn't enough to keep them from smoking some and, for others, wasn't nearly enough so they went back to smoking. What adding these alkaloids is attempting to do is better replicate the smoking experience for those that nicquid doesn't work. This will enable some that would return to smoking to have a product that may better meet their needs.
I don't know how long you've been on your journey or what your smoking history is like. I also don't know how many times you've attempted to quit and what methods you tried. Other than Chantix, there was nothing I hadn't tried, many multiple attempts. If I hadn't looked past nicquid after six months vaping with a half dozen cigarettes a day, I have no doubt I'd be back smoking. The number of cigarettes started increasing so I looked at the "why is this happening" which got me back to why I started in the first place.
I could write a book on that subject, but to keep this short, I needed to self medicate for some depression in my physiology and cigarettes treated that depression. MAOI effect is supplied through cigarettes via the interaction of the various alkaloids. I was talked into trying snus which I strongly resisted until I studied the research. After my first portion, I never had another drag on a ..., none and done.
The same alkaloids that are being extracted for WTA are in snus. I'm certainly less addicted than I was to smoking and I've had no need to increase my consumption over the last year and 9 months. Four to five portions and I'm good to go. That would be the hope for people like myself that need something else and they don't want to use smokeless products.
Do what it takes to keep you off combusting tobacco. It's good for you and, to some extent, it's good for those around you.
Others try PVs and it still isn't enough to keep them from smoking some and, for others, wasn't nearly enough so they went back to smoking. What adding these alkaloids is attempting to do is better replicate the smoking experience for those that nicquid doesn't work. This will enable some that would return to smoking to have a product that may better meet their needs.
I don't know how long you've been on your journey or what your smoking history is like. I also don't know how many times you've attempted to quit and what methods you tried. Other than Chantix, there was nothing I hadn't tried, many multiple attempts. If I hadn't looked past nicquid after six months vaping with a half dozen cigarettes a day, I have no doubt I'd be back smoking. The number of cigarettes started increasing so I looked at the "why is this happening" which got me back to why I started in the first place.
I could write a book on that subject, but to keep this short, I needed to self medicate for some depression in my physiology and cigarettes treated that depression. MAOI effect is supplied through cigarettes via the interaction of the various alkaloids. I was talked into trying snus which I strongly resisted until I studied the research. After my first portion, I never had another drag on a ..., none and done.
The same alkaloids that are being extracted for WTA are in snus. I'm certainly less addicted than I was to smoking and I've had no need to increase my consumption over the last year and 9 months. Four to five portions and I'm good to go. That would be the hope for people like myself that need something else and they don't want to use smokeless products.
Do what it takes to keep you off combusting tobacco. It's good for you and, to some extent, it's good for those around you.
Just to add my real life experience. I have been vaping WTA less than 2 months now. I am off my mucuna completely. I was experiencing some disturbing depression. I don't want to smoke cigarettes. Therefore, WTA is my only option. I was vaping 36mg non stop with constant urges to smoke. I will never go back to cigs. This is my only option and my choice since I do have freedom of choice.
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