WV bills to end online sales, tax eliquid and.... DIY supplies!

[skoony]

I still recall the days when tom baker was saying, it's not the FDA that's the concern, it's the states. And everyone (but me) responding was like, "no! It's the FDA! This year (like 2 years ago), they are going to create a massive overhaul that will decimate the industry. You are so far off base Tom, and obviously have no idea what this fight is about."

I remember him. I am beginning to think a lot of people owe him am apology.
I'll be the first although I do not remember ever disagreeing with him.
Regards
Mike

 

[crxess]

I still recall the days when tom baker was saying, it's not the FDA that's the concern, it's the states. And everyone (but me) responding was like, "no! It's the FDA! This year (like 2 years ago), they are going to create a massive overhaul that will decimate the industry. You are so far off base Tom, and obviously have no idea what this fight is about."

Never heard me deny State Greed
Tax abuse
Constituent Abuse

Common practice. Miss represent intentions at all cost to attain personal interest.

For the People my Tail feathers. For the Wallet!

 

[zoiDman]

...

I'll be the first although I do not remember ever disagreeing with him.
Regards
Mike

I Don't recall too many people saying that State Regulations would not be a Very Serious Concern to Vapers.

Whereas we are Currently seeing State after State pushing for e-Cigarette Regulations, I would Never Discount the effect that the FDA will have on the ENTIRE e-Cigarette Market.

 

[Lessifer]

I still recall the days when tom baker was saying, it's not the FDA that's the concern, it's the states. And everyone (but me) responding was like, "no! It's the FDA! This year (like 2 years ago), they are going to create a massive overhaul that will decimate the industry. You are so far off base Tom, and obviously have no idea what this fight is about."

I remember him. I am beginning to think a lot of people owe him am apology.
I'll be the first although I do not remember ever disagreeing with him.
Regards
Mike

I vaguely remember him, but from what I remember it wasn't his message that was the issue.

I don't think it's the FDA or the states, it's the FDA AND the states. Where would we be if the FDA had said "these things don't seem to have the same effect as smoking, maybe we should take a lighter approach with them?"

That's just wishful thinking though. For now, the states seem hell bent on either wiping vaping out, or getting their "fair" share of the money, and we're still waiting to how far the FDA will make us bend over.

 

[crxess]

FDA has done just as I've repeated over and over. Fuel the Fire, sit back and watch it burn. Let the individual states do the leg work.
Then, using State actions, proceed with the People Expect and even Demand we take action.
The people My back sides

 

[JoanJ]

WV is looking to squeeze money from the people any way possible these days because of their budget deficit..yesterday they also proposed raising their cigarette tax another $.45, it is currently $.55, would be $1 if goes through altho there are some that want to raise that $1 instead of the .45 They are talking about increasing the gasoline tax and the tax on coal and natural gas. WV also just passed the conceal carry without a permit. gov vetoed it but they pushed it through anyway, and looks like going to do the same with Prevailiing Wage and Right To Work. They are also trying to change the abortion laws in the state so really going in all directions and makes it difficult to keep up with them this session. They are also taking about raising the state sales tax from 6% to 6.5% which is silly from my perspective. Guess I will have to write a letter and fuss at people.

Unless all states follow suit, if this is pushed through, then I will do as I do with several other things and just go to a different state for it. Or have someone there mail what I need to me

 

[skoony]

Speaking of Stevemgu any one heard from moonbogg?
mike

 

[JoanJ]

I almost forgot... tax on soda, syrups and powders. The State is taxing anything they can find to tax these days to make up for the deficit where it would be easier to get rid of about 40% of State employees and about 50% of the state mowing machines.

 

[crxess]

Where the hell is stevegmu these days?
I want him to tell me how everything is okay.

Gone for good - thankfully. Closest to an Anti, I have ever seen in a Vaper.
(Anarchy comes to mind)


_____________________________________________________

WV Taxation and regulation is a Double Edged Sword, well developed to do several things.
Profit from Vapers
Minimize Vaping through excessive cost

All States Are starting to realize the Depth of Tax loss in decreasing Tax from Tobacco Sales. Mainly Processed Cigarettes.

They totally ignore the increase in Retail Sales, often on high priced items, due to expecting their Up Front Piece of the Pie(Pre-Tax, then Tax again)

I always though Double taxation was illegel
Oh, just give it two names and it is okay. - Bull Hocky!!!!

Slipped off focus - sorry

WV. Tax and Regulation will <IF PASSED> effectively put Mom and Pop stores out of business. Instant calculation of inventory for payment of increased Tax within 90 Day could easily bankrupt a small business.

Sudden High cost Stocking would drive down available supply in many establishments eventually causing a loss of customer support.

Ordering anything to DIY could result in immediate Tax responsibility - By the ML - if caught.
Soap maker, soap maker, soap maker
Homeopathic treatment!!!

Put your thinking caps on..................

Better yet - CONTACT your Representative and BLAST THEM with your opinion on Disregarding the Needs and voice of the People. Stop supporting corrupt politically/financially motivated organizations with little regard for those they claim to represent.
A Billion Lives...................some of them have to be in WV

Fear monger:
At-A-Glance

Kids are taking an interest in healthier choice.............but it is still a choice and WE DO LIKE IT<<<<<<<<<<<<<<is how their crap should read.

 

[JoanJ]

I read the proposed bill and didn't see how they will determine if something is part of an e liquid mixing kit. PG can be bought at Tractor Supply, VG is sold at most Health Stores, Wally World and such, flavorings are used in many things from cooking and baking to coffees, lip balms. Although not my first choice all the time but Lorann flavorings are in almost every grocery I can think of and is even sold at Walgreen's. The only thing left is nicotine and may be able to get around that one as I think it is used as a bug killer in gardens but I also think to use it you have to have a license.

 

[DC2]

I still recall the days when tom baker was saying, it's not the FDA that's the concern, it's the states. And everyone (but me) responding was like, "no! It's the FDA! This year (like 2 years ago), they are going to create a massive overhaul that will decimate the industry. You are so far off base Tom, and obviously have no idea what this fight is about."

I believe you are mistaken.
As far as I know, nobody EVER said the states were not a concern.

The problem with Tom Baker was his incessant and baseless criticism of CASAA.
Well, at least that was MY problem with him, and it was a big problem.

He's one of the few people I've ever run across that I would gladly punch in the nose.

 

[crxess]

I read the proposed bill and didn't see how they will determine if something is part of an e liquid mixing kit. PG can be bought at Tractor Supply, VG is sold at most Health Stores, Wally World and such, flavorings are used in many things from cooking and baking to coffees, lip balms. Although not my first choice all the time but Lorann flavorings are in almost every grocery I can think of and is even sold at Walgreen's. The only thing left is nicotine and may be able to get around that one as I think it is used as a bug killer in gardens but I also think to use it you have to have a license.

But it will be on you to prove you are not mixing............in this Guilty until proven otherwise society we have created

Make your own natural bug sprays

 

[Jman8]

I believe you are mistaken.
As far as I know, nobody EVER said the states were not a concern.

The problem with Tom Baker was his incessant and baseless criticism of CASAA.
Well, at least that was MY problem with him, and it was a big problem.

He's one of the few people I've ever run across that I would gladly punch in the nose.

Nope not mistaken.

 

[Steamix]

Only thing they really could get a hook in is the nic.
PG ... oh, I'M buying that for me cattle
VG ... we-elll, the missus is kinda sensitive to the commercial body lotions, so I make it myself with all natural ingredients. Yep, that's why I take some of these perfumer aromas here too, da missus likes a nice fragrance on her skin now and then and so do I.
Nic, nic, guess if tobacco makes it to keep dem lice off its leaves, I might give it a shot in my garden too.
Mother nature's very own pesticide, no artificial chemicals..
Vaping ? What's that?
Oh! Folk actually inhale that ?!
Me ?!
Naw---C'mon, you're joshing me...smoking bodylotion...

WV will have a few dialogues along these line in the future...how to control it ?

I can buy a hammer. Knock in a few nails to build a shed or hang some frames. I can also use the very same hammer and clobber someone's brain out... Yet last time I was there, local hardware store sold hammers in all shapes and sizes...

 

[sofarsogood]

West Virginia has depended on coal mining. That's going to decline because of cheap natural gas. They would tax breast milk if they could get away with it. Any legislator can introduce any bill any time. Most of them go no where. With coal in decline they will either increase taxes or decrease spending or both. I supposed everything that is plausibly taxable is being discussed. Which ideas will make the cut?

WV probably has more than it's share of low income people and plenty of them smoke. They best thing they could do for those people is encourage them to switch to vaping, mix at home and stop paying cigarette taxes.

After years of threats and chest beating by the anti ecig crowd almost no progress has been made to limit access to ecigs. Why is that? I can see the issues from my side of things but I don't do so well at walking in the shoes of government officials, regulators, etc. There must be factors restraining them that we don't discuss or we are blind to their thinking.

 

[EthanThorn]

You know i remember a buck a pack cig tax its now 3 buck here in kansas but our budget problems come of the lack of taxing bis. you can make like as much as you want here and never pay tax on it unless your not the owner its so bad here that schools are closing because they cant afford to stay open maybe WV needs to more taxes on things that don't help people like higher tax on bis. profits and bring that cig tax up to kansas level and leave food and e-cigs and healthcare alone i know how about they tax the heck out of alcohol or just do what CO. did now they zero money problems and a lower crime rate.

 

[MyMagicMist]

I read the proposed bill and didn't see how they will determine if something is part of an e liquid mixing kit. PG can be bought at Tractor Supply, VG is sold at most Health Stores, Wally World and such, flavorings are used in many things from cooking and baking to coffees, lip balms. Although not my first choice all the time but Lorann flavorings are in almost every grocery I can think of and is even sold at Walgreen's. The only thing left is nicotine and may be able to get around that one as I think it is used as a bug killer in gardens but I also think to use it you have to have a license.

Have a friend who has a tobacco sell exemption. With that comes nicotine sales. Not sure if the grandfathering will keep him from needing to pay taxes, or not.

He may have grounds for civil suit. Do I think he would bother? No, not really. It would not be consistent with what I have seen of his past actions, to bother.

Will need to figure something out. Gee, I can install Tor. How 'bout that.

 

[MyMagicMist]

West Virginia has depended on coal mining. That's going to decline because of cheap natural gas.

Bit of an alternate theory here for you. Coal can replenish itself, or is replenish-able. Yes, I realize it takes a good bit of time for that to occur. It also takes a good bit of time to mine it to a point where by the lode is called too low.

There was a big influx of environmentalist types who demanded WV shut down coal mining. This influx came on gradually. It too took a bit of time and seemed a self sustaining and logical rival of coal, coal mining.

If you think in terms of the Hegelian Dialectic, you might see the problem, reaction, solution situation regarding coal mining.

"We're getting really low in the coal lode." -- The Problem

"We environmentalists want coal mining gone!" -- The Reaction

"We have lower costing natural gas, and more surplus of it from fracking, you're welcome. " -- The Solution

This also solves the problem against fracking having a bad image. Yes, you have some fringe who still smear fracking. Look close though, you don't see the big group environmentalist types doing any smearing or applying pressure. Wonder why, eh?

Maybe it is a borrowed lesson from Stalin, who I believe suggested using controlled opposition. So now, they have time for coal to renew itself via natural process. They also got people to have more acceptance of fracking despite its dangers. All they needed to do was to go along with what some outspoken environmental types asked.

Not saying this is indeed the situation. I am saying though, to me, it seems to be likely. Of course, invisible purple unicorns seem likely too. Go figure.

Somewhere I had a point, thought train got derailed as the pain medicine is beginning to dull the nerves. It is also late/early and I split firewood with an axe today. It felt good while in the process, could sense the swing of things returning. No pun intended in that last line. Splitting wood like that, like riding a bicycle, once you learn you never unlearn it.

Enjoyed talking with the spirit of my wife's grandfather while I split, too. He was bringing me back to the 'right Way', moving logs as I swung at them on the chopping block. And I have no doubt that if he lived still, he would be doing the same. Last year his spirit tried shoving me off the edge of hill as I was running the weed eater. It told me, "Saw you falling, Barney. Tried to catch you." Of course, the dastardly and mischievous grin on its face made me tell it something.

"Yeah, sure, riiiiiight. You just wanted me dancing a jig like a goat you old fool. You were shoving me off." My wife laughed when I told her his spirit told me I had two more steps behind me. The truth was there was about half a step left. I was working uphill going side to side and cross cutting, ergo moving a bit to keep apace. I had let myself slip off into the not thinking/ paying attention just doing mindset. His spirit come to visit and seemed to be offering advice. Silly me, listening to the nutter.

Bah, this old dog better go crash.

 

[Bill Godshall]

More info on WV tax legislation.

West Virginia Gov. Tomblin’s budget proposal (via SB 420 and HB 4494) would impose $.075/ml tax on all e-liquid (i.e. $2.25 for a 30ml bottle) including nicotine-free e-liquid, would increase cigarette tax from $.55 to $1/ pack, and would increase OTP tax from 7% to 12%.
SB 420 Text
Bill Status - Complete Bill History

CASAA alert urges WV vapers to oppose Gov. Tomblin’s proposed vapor product taxes
WV - Take action to oppose harmful taxes on vapor products
WV - Make a Call to oppose dangerous taxes on e-cigarettes and other smoke-free products!

WV Senate Finance Cmte amends bill (SB 420) to increase cigarette tax hike to $1.55/pack, approves amended bill, sent to full Senate
Senate committee tweaks tobacco tax proposal, heads to Senate floor
SB 420 Text

WV Senate approves SB 420, would become effective April 1, sent to WV House
http://www.legis.state.wv.us/legisdocs/2016/RS/votes/senate/02-23-0172.pdf

 

[Bill Godshall]

As occurred last year in Louisiana and Kansas, I suspect that Reynolds lobbyists realized the WV Gov. had enough Senate votes to approve his cigarette tax hike, so Reynolds offered to not oppose the governor's cigarette tax hike bill if it also contained a modest OTP tax hike (where smokeless tobacco is huge) and a modest (but unwarranted) tax on all e-liquid and components (so that Vuse users will pay a lower tax than vapers who use premium vaporizers and bottles of e-liquid).

But with a $1/pack cigarette tax hike (as amended by the Senate), this bill should (if enacted) economically benefit WV vape shops and other vapor product retailers (who should gain more new customers from cigarette companies than they'd lose due the modest vapor tax).

I also suspect many WV male smokers would switch to much less harmful (and less expensive) smokeless tobacco.