XL carts for the M401????

[PapaJoe8]

Thanks for the informative posts Billy! there is some good info on the 601s and 301s here in this 401 / 402 section by those who have had them awhile.

I have some 808 cartos that I like just fine. They were blanks and I just filled the, let them sit awhile, and no probs. nothing beats the flavor from a good 40x atty though. Maybe the 601s or 301s might? I hear the 601 is enough bigger that is is not as quite as tricky to hit the bucket w/ your juice.

That PTB filler is something I have not tried. Lets us know how it works.

And thanks for the juice reviews.
Joe

 

[billybc96]

No problem, and thanks for the info. I definitely am really interested in trying one of these m601 e-cigs now, but it seems a little wasteful to get into a whole other model (that's not really all that different) when I'm pretty happy with what I've got.

Now on to finishing my BWB e-liquid flavors review.

The 6mg nicotine level Applewood is my first disappointment in a Backwoods Brew e-liquid flavor. The apple flavor is subtle (as seems typical for most BWB flavors), but it is good. It's almost like a hot apple pie sort of flavor, but without so much of the spicey (cinnamon and so on) ingredients. Unfortunately, there is no real throat hit, nor any smokey "wood" (or any other tobacco-like) flavor to it. This might work alright for someone who doesn't want a tobacco flavor, but I do. This is an otherwise decent tasting flavor though, so if you don't mind a good flavor with no throat hit, and are looking to go the ultra-low or zero nicotine route, than this might be good for you. I can't really recommend it though. I think the folks that recommend this must just really be so into a good apple flavor (are others that bad?) that they disregard all other aspects of a good vaping experience. Even vapor production, while still good, seems lower than with the other BWB e-liquid flavors I've tried, but it may have just seemed that way because I was overall disappointed. Funny how that sort of thing works sometimes, eh?

Instead of Applewood, you might be more interested in the last BWB flavor e-liquid I tried, the 6mg nicotine level eJoker. This juice is a "secret" mix of several unspecified other e-liquids, all of which are typically BWB subtle. I can't define them all, though some some of the flavors taste like maybe mint (or peppermint?), ginger, and even menthol. The best way I can describe it is kind of like...a Christmas holiday taste, or like the smell of a Christmas aroma candle (like you might sniff at a Bath and Body type store), but not as intense. Though there is no real throat hit, there is something of a tongue hit instead, and an aftertaste of all its flavors that lingers on the tongue and even a bit in your nose. Yeah, it's definitely kinda cool, but not at all overwhelming. If you are into minty menthol, or particularly unique flavors, but trying to go low to zero nicotine, this might be right up your alley. I liked it, but find it hard to imagine vaping it regularly. I won't mind finishing the 10ml bottle gradually over time though, and I'll make heavy use of it over Thanksgiving and Christmas. This one is kind of a fun one.

My favorites of these 5 e-liquids for daily vaping purposes are probably the RY4, then/or the 555, then the Malty Toffee (a bit too light with a bit too much buttery toffee for me, and not enough malt, but the regular BWB Malty flavor I haven't ordered or tried yet might be pretty good), then eJoker, and finally Applewood...which is really the only one I don't like very much. I'll probably only use that one on days where I feel I've been vaping too much and feel a need to cut back, but still need or want to vape regardless. (I don't think that will happen much.) The others I'll be able to make good use of, with the top three being all pretty solid and enjoyable regular vapes.

In maybe another week (electronic-cigz.com looks to be a slow shipper) I'll be getting my blank XL PTB cartridges, and I'll retest all of these e-liquids with those newer style cartridges to see if there is any significanct difference in how they vape, taste, and also if the XL cartridges really last much longer before having to be refilled.

 

[billybc96]

Oh, sorry, forgot to mention that eJoker and Applewood are also clean and buttery smooth as well (but by that I mostly don't mean "buttery" in flavor), much like the other Backwoods Brew flavors mentioned. Also, for those that are into this sort of info, RY4 is the darkest e-liquid (being fairly dark), then eJoker, Malty Toffee, Applewood, and then 555, with the 555 being particularly light in color. I don't know if that has any real significance to anyone, or why it would, but other reviewers sometimes mention the relative lightness or darkness of an e-liquid they are reviewing (because some people ask?), so I thought I'd just throw that in for the sake of completeness.

 

[PapaJoe8]

Billy, some.. think.. the dark color is harder on attys.

I know what you mean about not getting to much new stuff when you are pretty happy w/ what you have but...? I had a long discussion here somewhere about getting a 601 to work w/ stuff I already had. I just have a 905 / 901 thread mod besides my 40xs. They have 510 for adapters the 601 and 901 adapters for 510s so I would need to piggypack to make the 601 work. The new X-Power has the 601 threads so I might spring for one of those. Litecig has those and the 301s but not the 601 yet. The 301 has a cartridge kinda like a 901 or 510, no bucket. Gets kinda confusing.
Joe

 

[billybc96]

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's funny, I talk about this stuff with people who don't use a PV, or who maybe don't even smoke for that matter, and they look at me like I'm nuts. Hahaha. It's nice to be able to chat with fellow PV users online that understand the sorts of things I'm going through with all of this stuff. Most of the time it's kind of fun, but some aspects can be a bit annoying at times. For the most part, this has been fun, interesting, and (of course) damn useful. I'm glad I'm at a point now where I'm comfortable and finally saving substantial amounts of money compared to when I used analogs.

 

[billybc96]

I don't know what it is, but for some reason none of these flavors are working for me very well right now. Maybe it is the nicotine level not being enough, or maybe I've just been switching between my current e-liquid flavors too much, or maybe these subtle flavors aren't so much subtle as...simply too weak? I clean out my atomizers when switching flavors, so that shouldn't really be an issue, unless my taste buds are just rebelling in some strange way. I think it's probably mainly a nicotine level issue, though 12mg has worked well enough for me before...but with a different brand. Any thoughts?

 

[PapaJoe8]

I'm bettin the nic level Billy. I use 36mg. The 24 was just not quite strong enough. The nic juice is unflavored and more nic displaces more flavor. you need extra flavor w/ high nic. Oh, be sure to shake that juice but some say not too hard.

I find no need to clean attys, when switching flavors, with the 40x stuff. I have heard others say the same. It only takes maybe 10 vapes and the new flavor is in. I hate to wast the juice by cleaning. I haven't cleaned some of my attys for months. When the get sluggish I have rinsed w/ hot water, blown out, re primed and started using them again. I have tried all th ECF touted cleaning methods for some real old and sluggish attys. some are not helped by anything. Some revive for a while.
Joe

 

[billybc96]

Hmmm...I was wondering if maybe my batteries could be going bad? But, they produce good vapor, which would seem to indicate they are getting and delivering a good charge. I have had them (2) for about 3 months now, charging each about twice a day, and they don't last forever, Intellicig batteries are supposed to be good for about 800-1000 charges. I'm not even close to that many of charges yet, not even the more typical supposed charge limit of about 500-600. Today my vaping experience was better. For all I know, all this might have more to do with stress, but I wasn't aware I have been anymore stressed out than usual. I might try out the BWB Honey Flu Tobacco e-liquid in a 16-18mg nicotine level (I wanted to try it out anyway), but if that doesn't really work for me either...I might just go back to Halo, maybe trying their seemingly way too strong Torque56 in a 12mg dose. Or, maybe just the 12mg Freedom e-juice...unmixed with less satisfying e-liquids this time. LOL : )

 

[PapaJoe8]

Billy, the natural death of a batt is to hold a charge for less and less time so probably if you batts are producing good vapor then that is not your prob.

Many folks keep some 24 or 36 nic for when they need something strong. I need something strong all the time. And, I am one of those who thinks nic is not what was bad for you in the analogs, so the high nic is not something I am afraid of. I like strong flavor also so I try to get extra flavor w/ my high nic juices. If I were to suggest some high nic I would rec ether Tasty Vapor "TV" or Freedomsmokeusa "FSU". Both use a high quilaty nic and I can tell the diff from other vendors. Be sure to get the extra flavor slash if you use FSU.

I have some low nic juices but rarely use them. I do like to keep 3 or 4 flavors going to use during the day. I just like to switch around.
Joe

 

[billybc96]

Oh my God, finally got my m401 XL PTB cartridges from electronic-cigz.com! Yes, checking them out right now. It's probably too soon to give them a complete and fair review, but I'll make a few comments about them anyway. For starters, they just barely fit in my m402 PCC, so that the lid doesn't quite fully close completely, but a bit of trimming will solve that. A completely assembled m402 using the XL cartridges doesn't quite fit in my m402 PCC, but that was to be expected. I don't usually store the e-cigarette I'm actively using in the PCC box anyway, but just keep it in a shirt or pants pocket. If I had the PCC model specifically sized for m401 model e-cigs instead, none of that would be an issue, but I'm not planning on spending the extra $25 for one right now. If I had all this to do all over again, I would definitely go that route. Delivery time from this company kind of pretty much sucked, took a couple of weeks, maybe even a bit longer, but at least nothing was damaged, and for some reason (probably just a mistake) they threw in an extra syringe (I had ordered one just to try it out for refilling cartridges.)

I didn't really need the syringe for filling these new cartridges anyway, and that method doesn't work well with Backwoods Brew's little dropper type bottles in any case. Using those types of bottles, I can get about 15-16 drops of e-liquid in the new cartridges without any problem, and don't even need to take the PTB filler material out to do so, which is very convenient. Normally I can only get about 10 or so drops (maybe as many as 12, just depending) in my standard size m401 cartridges, so that is a decent little improvement in capacity for very little extra length. (Number of drops really isn't a very good guide post, as each drop is never exactly the same. Another same type XL cartridge I just filled took about 22 drops, but from a different supplier's differently made dropper bottle.) The extra length is very little, only a few millimeters, but that is all extra cartridge capacity. The new cartridges also fit nice and tight on my atomizers, which I am happy about. My older standard length cartridges never did fit very tight, though it never turned out to be an issue, just a moderate annoyance. The cartridges are nice and straight, which some of my older cartridges were not, but that's not a big deal. For all I know, a different shipment of the newer cartridges could have ended up having a few slightly less than straight ones in it.

I'm trying out several of my old BWB e-liquids I received a few weeks ago., though I've been vaping them off and on ever since, often times mixed up to try helping use up less than satisfactory flavors. I was kind of hoping, but not expecting, that after sitting around a few weeks these e-liquids might improve in flavor strength. BWB flavors are still good, but still just plain too weak for me. Another forum member just let me know that his recent double flavor e-liquid order came through from BWB without any problems, without any additional charge. He too thought that BWB flavors are good, though rather weak, but he is now very happy. I'll now have to give BWB a try again with a double flavor strength order, maybe just of RY4 at first. (I've got plenty enough little half used e-liquid bottles lying around as it is.)

Draw seems to be a little easier on an m402 automatic using the Pyramid Tea Bag modified XL cartridges, but that is difficult to judge while I'm sitting here in front of the computer. If it is better, it is so far not a significant difference. I can't really say for sure if vapor production is any different. It probably shouldn't be any different, but it does actually seem like a bit more vapor is being produced. If it is, it's not enough of a difference to be significant, much as with the draw. I'm still vaping my first cartridge after an hour, pretty much continuously, so I'm not sure yet how much more vaping time I'll get out of one of these things compared to standard. With my only other atomizer, I'm switching out and also trying one of my recently received (less than a week ago) Freedom Smoke USA e-liquids, 12mg Wyatt Earp. I don't find the FSUSA e-liquids to be any much more flavorful than the BWB ones, though they are still generally quite smooth. If anything, FSUSA flavors stand out just a bit more, but tend to be ever so slightly harsher (not as refined tasting) in comparison.

I think maybe a bit more flavor comes through with the PTB modified XL cartridges, but my old cartridges are old. They are cleaned out regularly, especially for taste testing, but old all the same. I've even recently discovered that some of those older cartridges now have cracked inner fill cartridges, so their days are definitely numbered anyway. The only real significant difference between the XL PTB cartridges and the standard ones is the extra length and extra e-liquid capacity. So far they don't seem to have any problems at all with leaking, but I only sometimes get that with the older cartridges, so it is probably too soon to tell with the new cartridges. Typically leaks are due to my overfilling a cartridge, and sometimes to taking too strong a drag, all of which can happen with any cartridge.

Anyway, I'm glad I finally got my new cartridges. Sadly, I'm not sure if I want to ever order from electronic-cigz.com again, just because of the very long shipping and receiving time. Other than that, their products seem to be pretty good. I like the longer lasting XL cartridges, though I'm not sure the Pyramid Tea Bag modification makes a difference in the vaping experience at, other than their being somewhat easier to refill in my opinion. Standard fill material XL cartridges would probably be fine, but as far as I recall there was no actual price difference in the two from the same supplier. I know of no other supplier that ships pre-PTB modified cartridges (they have them in regular length as well, for several different model e-cig cartridge types), at least for now (they came sealed in plastic just like any other new blank cartridges). Since their shipping takes so long (at least to the U.S.), I wouldn't bother ordering these from electronic-cigz.com if I were you. Just stick with the more locally available standard fill XL cartridges if you're interested in the extra capacity length, though the PTB modification might allow a few more drops of e-liquid than that...maybe.

 

[bsoplinger]

Just a comment…

I have both a 401 and 402 PCC. Neither will fit the XL cartridge unfortunately. The only difference between the 2 models is where the threaded bit sits in the charging hole. Its lower to accomidate the longer battery in the 401 PCC. Ditto on the rear hole. The 402 has a bit to let an assembled 402 size sit in the hole and not get lost.

 

[billybc96]

Really? Damn, that is too bad. At least now I know I won't bother wasting my money on trying out the m401 PCC. Very helpful clarification on that. Thank you. : )

 

[billybc96]

Well, wait a second, it seems like a (shorter than m401) m402 battery with an XL cartridge should fit in the spare assembled unit hole behind the battery charging slot, but you are saying it specifically doesn't, not enough to allow the lid to close? You used a shorter than m401 model m402 on the m401 PCC? Sorry, I can't help but ask. I'm just curious.

 

[bsoplinger]

Ok, let me try to be clearer. There are 2 models of PCC. One for the 401 and one for the 402/403. They have the same external physical dimensions. If you've seen a picture you'll know there's a 'shelf' inside the PCC that has 8 holes in it in 2 rows of 4. Three of the 4 holes are just a small depression and are designed to hole a cartridge with its plug. 1 is designed with threads on the bottom which takes a battery to charge and 1 is designed to hold an assembled e-cig.

The position or location of the threaded bit varies between the 401 and 402 model PCC. It is positioned closer to the top in the 402 because the battery is shorter. Similarly the pad at the bottom of the hole that holds the assembled e-cig varies between 401 and 402. The reason the pad for the assembled e-cig isn't at the bottom of the 402 PCC is to allow for a m403 e-cig to be put into that hole and not get lost inside. Ditto for where the thread assembly is located in the 402 version of the PCC so that m403 batteries can be charged.

I know the lid doesn't close properly if I have XL cartridges in either the front or back holes. If they are only in the front holes its not as bad and the lid will stay semi-shut. If they are in the back its just enough that the lid wants to pop open. Ditto for an assembled e-cig with XL cartridge.

So I have mostly the XL size cartridges with a stock of about a dozen or so regular length ones to put into my PCC.

 

[PapaJoe8]

For the 401 PCC that will not hold an assembled m401... just cut down the soft rubber stoppers / plugs that come w/ the XL cartridges and then the cartridges will fit in the PCC. I think we talked about this earlier on this thread? About half of the widest part of the stopper / plug. A razor knife is what I used but anything that will cut that soft rubber will work Just be careful!
Joe

 

[bsoplinger]

For the 401 PCC that will not hold an assembled m401... just cut down the soft rubber stoppers / plugs that come w/ the XL cartridges and then the cartridges will fit in the PCC.

Never even thought of that. Of course that would do the trick. The XL are just a bit too long. The amount you describe sounds like plenty. And the stopper/plug end is more than large enough that even with half gone there's still enough to grab to remove easily.

 

[billybc96]

Yeah, I did that right away with mine and they have no problem fitting as spare cartridges in the PCC box, though there is barely enough rubber left over for me to get a purchase on when unplugging the cartridges. If you don't like the uneven look of how you cut the top of your plugs off, you can trim with something like nail clippers, then use a file to smooth things out a little more. Makes 'em look a little nicer that way. That really is too bad about a fully assembled m402 with an XL cartridge still not being able to fit in an m401 PCC box, but I can live with that. I always carry an extra backup atomizer as a plug in one of my spare cartridges, so that will always have to be a standard size cartridge (can't "trim" the atomizer down), but that still lets me carry 3 XL cartridges. For all the extra effort, I'd be just as well off if the PCC box had just one more hole slot for another standard cartridge. The XL cartridges don't last that much longer. At least on particularly long, heavy vaping days I know I've got the equivalent of that one extra filled cartridge, which is nice. Of course...I could just carry a small bottle of e-liquid for refilling on the road too (I drive for a living), but that can be messy. The XL cartridges don't really cost anymore, so anytime you want to get new blank cartridges it makes sense to get some of the XL ones.

Now that I've used some of my PTB XL cartridges, I find it isn't so easy to just straight drip fill them without taking the PTB filler out. They are pretty much a one piece unit though, permanently folded so they don't unravel or anything like that when you remove them, so refilling my cartridges by dripping is still easier, and slightly less messy. The PTB fill material also never gets snagged on the atomizer when removing the cartridge. I've nearly lost some older style fill material that way before, which was very annoying at the time. Messy as well. I guess I really like these things and can highly recommend them as long you are aware of and don't mind their minor limitations. I'd certainly not hesitate to get regular length cartridges with the PTB fill material, except for the long delivery wait time. You can also do the Pyramid Tea Bag modification yourself on any of these types of cartridges, but I understand it is kind of a pain to get it right, plus you need to spend extra money on the required material. Just buying the cartridges ready made this way at no extra cost makes a lot of sense if you're interested in the modification.

 

[PapaJoe8]

Bsop, your right that half is still easy to remove. Probably a bit less than half would still work.

Billy... A file, that's a good idea to smooth them out! But, who all sells those PTB XL carts?
Joe

 

[billybc96]

Electronic-cigz.com, a Canadian company with 2-3 week shipping times to the U.S. Coupon code "ecf" gets you 5% off, but coupon code "ilss2010" gets you 10% off your order. Your pick. I recommend the 10% off coupon code. : ) The 2-3 week wait is kind of a pain, but I just put in another order with them anyway. Some of the stuff they have is hard to find this side of the Pacific. I ordered an m601 set this morning, with the PTB option for that model's XL cartridges.

 

[PapaJoe8]

Wow Billy, I'm wantin a 601! Please let s know how you like it. I'm bettin it will work good w/ the XL PTB carts. Not sure why no U.S. suppliers have stocked the 601? I have been to that site a while back. I will look around again. And thanks for tha codes!
Joe