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Consider the socioeconomic station of the average cigar/pipe smoker compared to the socioeconomic station of the average Skoal user.

This probably places me in a hypothetical Category 6 [people who had no particular inclination to quit, but did, though not for health reasons; rather, because they found vaping more enjoyable and less expensive, with harm reduction being merely an ancillary side benefit].

Yup. Vuse and MarkTen were designed specifically to satisfy the deeming regs (tobacco/menthol only, tamper-proof cartos, ridiculously detailed health warnings, etc.).

Yes, and those referenda nearly always pass without much difficulty, after their proponents flood the airwaves with a bunch of ads along the lines of "This is all for the children. You don't hate the children, do you?"

They don't understand them as well as they think they do, because they still want to believe vapor product consumers can be made to behave like cigarette consumers, and that's never going to happen. Cigarette-style brand loyalty with vapor products is, for lack of a better term, a pipe dream...

They don't understand them as well as they think they do, because they still want to believe vapor product consumers can be made to behave like cigarette consumers, and that's never going to happen. Cigarette-style brand loyalty with vapor products is, for lack of a better term, a pipe dream...

I spent around 80-90 bucks a month on cigarettes. I doubt if I've spent that much on vaping supplies in the last three months, and the disparity only gets bigger with all the coupon codes and promo deals you can always get for e-liquid and such.

This forum has done more to advance the safety and efficacy of vapor product technology than 200 years of FDA regulation would.

I can't envisage any future in which large numbers of people use BT vapor products on a long-term basis. Their products are a gateway between smoking and real vapor products, which is probably all they'll ever be. I can't imagine how this would be. If I wanted to spend as much on vaping as I...

Substantial equivalence is an inherently stupid test in the first place (since it assumes, for no particular reason, that older products are preferable to newer products), and it becomes even stupider when it's applied to products for which it was never intended.

It seems you're really going out of your way to conflate "present" with "present at potentially harmful levels." Presence does not equal harm. Each time you take a breath of ambient room air you inhale things that would kill you in higher concentrations.

Whenever I see some youngster wearing a Che shirt, I go up to them and ask what they actually know about Ernesto Guevara. The most articulate answers I ever get are along the lines of "Well, he was this dude who was like....all into freedom and stuff." But usually I just get a blank stare.

If nothing else, it signals a recognition by some people on Capitol Hill that the previous "grandfather" date was nothing more than an attempt to summarily ban (without actually saying so) nearly every vapor product currently on the market.

File under "cold, hard blast of truth."

Lots of nicotine-only products are already exempted. They just happen to all be made by Big Pharma.

Is there anything more disturbingly Orwellian than a policy position that amounts to "We have to ban this product because it might cause undesirable thoughts"?

Then, of course, you've got the "smoking kills 50% of everyone who does it" fantasy, which might be the most absurd one of all. Pretty much 100% of all deaths would need to be smoking-related in order to account for all the deaths that should have happened according to CDC.

You have to give young people credit for being so much less stupid than the ANTZ think they are. They're figuring out tobacco harm reduction perfectly well on their own.

Hey, that's the very same thing I was just reading.

CDC Report: U.S. Adult Smoking Rate at Lowest Level Since 1965 - California Healthline Highlights: "Some days"? Really? Good job gathering precise data, CDC. Wow, you smoke fewer cigarettes when you smoke less often? Crazy. [/LIST] :facepalm: I, for one, am horrified that my kids have a...