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”Cheating” on the Molicel new battery poll...really?

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by Mooch, Nov 2, 2018.

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  1. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    There were 1570 responses to the recent poll asking what you’d like Molicel to challenge their engineers to do for their new battery development.

    Over 700 responses were obvious duplicates entered in by dozens of people. There was one group of about 420 “Create a good 26650 battery” responses!

    I’m only talking about multiple votes for the same thing. It’s perfectly okay to go back and also vote for something different as not all of us have a single favorite choice from the list.

    Really? This is how we thank the first big manufacturer who is interested in what we want to see in a battery?

    I completely understand wanting your choice to be the top one in the poll. But I think the bigger picture is important too. Whether voting twice or 420 times for the same thing we want Molicel to spend their money on something that results in a battery the community wants and will buy. This will get Molicel to spend even more time and money on more batteries we want.

    I went through all 1,570 responses manually and removed the obvious duplicates (yea, that was a fun evening /s) but I am sure that I missed some. Hopefully they are distributed across most of the choices pretty evenly.

    The results
    E4BD8A9F-151C-454D-A8AE-8F7D6322A5C9.jpeg

    Votes for performance improvements beat out safety improvements by a large margin. I was also surprised that only about 800 vapers voted across ECR, ECR, FB, and IG. A huge thank you to those that did!
     
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  2. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    :(

    I must say that I am disappointed in the results. I also tried to look at the bigger picture. I voted for safety improvements to benefit all vapers.

    We've learned to vape from a "performance" perspective with what is already available to use. However, we all use some type of lithium battery which have inherent safety risks. A nearly foolproof "safe" battery would benefit all of us. Can Molicel create that?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Tim Wiseman

    Tim Wiseman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 29, 2017
    Bolton, England
    Whether liking the outcome of the poll or not and i'm with @Baditude a bit disappointed, polls are democratic and fair. If what you say is true and someone actually voted 420 times for what they wanted then that is a disgusting, selfish and undemocratic act. I'm sorry but they should be named and shamed because that is so disgusting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    My guess would be an agent acting for Molicel was responsible
     
  5. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    Why? I'm not a great believer in the integrity of corporations, but wouldn't they gain more from finding out what people are willing pay for than stacking the poll?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    I think not, but what do I know? Just judging from the feedback here on ECF in the thread where the poll was introduced, performance and battery size were the more common responses; in my opinion selfish responses. Very few were safety related which benefits everyone.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Tim Wiseman

    Tim Wiseman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 29, 2017
    Bolton, England
    If it wasn't them there's either 1 or a few people who are disgusting, selfish low life's that if possible should be named because the rest of us should have the right to tell them what scum they are before putting them on the ignore list.
     
  8. untar

    untar Vaping Master

    Feb 7, 2018
    Germany
    Actually there's quite a few if you count the safety related points together (there's 4-5 of them or so).
    Still less than those voting for improvements to the performance but it's not quite as bad as you make it out to be :p
     
  9. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Safety upgrades would be nice but safety is and will always be up to the user. There is only so much a company can do in reality. This mind set could well be behind voting for performance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Creative Creative x 1
  10. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    True. But one could argue there is only so much improvement that can be done to improve performance, too. There's almost always a trade off in improving the amp rating, the mah rating, internal resistance, etc. These small increments in improved performance seem to come naturally with time as the technology improves.

    But I haven't seen anything in the way of improvement regarding safety from the major manufacturers, because their batteries aren't designed to be used outside of a battery pack like we use them. Here we have the opportunity to influence a major manufacturer (Molicel) on how they design their batteries specifically for vaping, and this is what we came up with?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    I find both sides equally relevant honestly.
     
  12. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    Even if you go for safety (as I did), unintended consequences are still a concern. I really liked the idea of engraving the specs on the can, but then I imagined idiot manufacturers and rewrappers engraving (inflated) specs in a way that compromises the battery's integrity.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Tim Wiseman

    Tim Wiseman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 29, 2017
    Bolton, England
    Am i missing something here the result became the side note the OP was pointing out that a person or persons was voting over and over again for their preference which is selfishly trying to rig the result. I find that happening disturbing but the lack that those responding to this post don't even seem to be bothered even more so.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    My understanding is safer batteries are on the horizon with the advent of ceramic Lithium cells. Gonna be awhile though.
     
  15. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    The engraving the specs on the can probably won't stop the rewrappers from engraving false ratings on the can.

    We've already had "protected" batteries before, but that didn't prevent fires or exploding batteries. Maybe there's a "more safer" chemistry.

    I was thinking more along the line of physical changes to the battery that could help prevent short circuiting. For example, a new innovative concept for the positive contacts of the batteries. Better insulation materials other than the thin plastic wrap and insulating loop. Heck, I'm not an electronics designer, but those simple ideas should be doable at the very least.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    I think we are just numb to it in regards to vaping, especially after the flavor fiasco. It's just too easy for people to cheat.
     
  17. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    I'm highly skeptical of the validity of this poll (no disrespect intended Mooch) what with your average battery wrapper's track record. This is a public relations exercise after all so I wouldn't get too excited.
     
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  18. Violetti Usva

    Violetti Usva Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 1, 2017
    How do you know which were duplicates though?
     
  19. Tim Wiseman

    Tim Wiseman Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 29, 2017
    Bolton, England
    That's the point i made in the original poll thread, but still doesn't change the disgusting behaviour. I thought Molicel are a battery manufacturer not a rewrapper?
     
  20. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Mooch,

    Thank you so much for taking the time out to rationalise the results.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of polls, focus groups and consultations. Unless there is sufficient control and scope, the danger is the question is already pre-loaded. In an ideal world I agree that should be the approach, but personal experience suggests otherwise.

    It is a brave corporation that actually genuinely enquires as to what their customers want, as frequently that will conflict with other agendas. It is also potentially very costly to do properly, not just in implementation but from a PR/marketing perspective. What happens if your customers say your product is rubbish?

    What you generally end up with is design by committee, the low hanging fruit is picked, and then pushed as new improved etc. Worst still, there is the consult/ignore paradigm, where the poll/focus group is used as a lever to push through something entirely different.

    That is why most customer service surveys are flawed, unless as an organisation you are willing to ask difficult questions and then listen and act on the responses, all you will end up with is a grey soup of confirmation bias.

    Saying that, I'm not having a go at Molicel, Mooch or anyone in particular, just sharing my experience of branding, polls, focus groups etc. from both side of the fence. That's why I love the Japanese approach when it comes to product development, the staff who know what goes on are actively encouraged to engage on the basis of understanding.
     
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