11mg nicotine - low or medium?

[Starlight]

I've been lurking on this great forum for a couple of weeks and have learnt so much - thank you all for all the great info here!

As a brief intro, I started on e-cigs about a fortnight ago. I have both the dse901, and the Intellicig EVO which I think is brilliant. I've been a 2 pack a day smoker for decades and have tried everything there is to quit but nothing worked. I was astonished to find that the day after starting on the e-cigs, my use of real cigs dropped by half and is now at about 10 a day, and all so painlessly!

I've been trying out various liquids and am a bit confused over those at 11 mg nicotine strength as I'm wanting the lowest nicotine strength as I smoke(d) the lowest of nicotine strength cigarettes at 0.1mg. Some suppliers call the 11 mg liquid "low" (eg: e-cigs.co.uk and Johnson Creek), and some call it "medium" (eg: Janty and Totally Wicked). Whilst others at 6 mg or 8 mg are also called "low".

Am I the only newbie to be confused over these different strengths of "low"?

 

[RainbowznStarz]

No. And in my opinion 11mg of Nic is medium.

 

[K-Sound Krew]

I was a camel light smoker for 20 years
I use the Janty med liquid
It is definately more nic then what I was used to

But I like that extra hit of nic I think that's what makes an e-cig almost just as satisfying as an analog

 

[UkUsa]

I'd also agree that 11mg is a medium. I started with the high carts and juice, think they are 24mg. My latest juice is Med Riskee from puresmoker which is 16mg. I am planning to step down to a low next and see how that works out. I did try the 0mg cart in my starter pack and wasn't too impressed with it.
Maybe after stepping down to low for a while i'll try some 0 mg again but in a flavoured variety.

 

[Starlight]

Thanks all for your replies to my first post

I think I'm more addicted to the whole physical act of smoking rather than to the nic itself - which is why I love these e-cigs! That may be as I never took tobacco smoke directly into the lungs although I probably still need some nic.

I find that if I have too much 11 mg, my tongue sort of stings and feels prickly and feels as if I've burnt it on boiling soup. If I'm right, from what I've seen on the forum here, that's due to a higher nic content than I'm used to? Or is it a side-effect of starting on e-cigs as I'm not getting any OD symptoms?

But, I did get both 0 mg and 11 mg of some them, so I can mix them 50/50 and get a 5.5 mg nic content - is that right? Or, get some food grade glycerine and mix it 50/50 with the others that I don't have 0 mg flavours for?

 

[Kate]

Hi Starlight, welcome to the forum. I love your avatar, it's classy

I think 11mg is medium.

My theory about nicotine dosing has changed a bit recently, I'm not convinced that a steady dose, even at low levels, is having any pleasurable effect. The more we are exposed the more tolerant and dependant we become so gradually the dose has to be increased to have the same effect.

However, if we dose like we smoked - zero nic for a while and then occasional spikes of nicotine, then nicotine levels would go from low to high quicker and have more effect.

What I'm going to be doing is vape either low or zero most of the time but have treats occasionally when I would have had a cig. Just a couple of drops of medium does it for me. That way, by not taking a steady ineffective low dose I can get a spike that I can feel the buzz with without taking much of a daily dose at all. That's my theory at the moment anyway

I suggest that you try to find a nic level that is just enough to keep you off tobacco, even if you have to have occasional doses of medium or high. As you get used to vaping you'll manage your dose better and can take more control over reducing it if that's what you plan to do.

 

[pseudonym]

Hi Starlight, welcome to the forum. I love your avatar, it's classy

I think 11mg is medium.

My theory about nicotine dosing has changed a bit recently, I'm not convinced that a steady dose, even at low levels, is having any pleasurable effect. The more we are exposed the more tolerant and dependant we become so gradually the dose has to be increased to have the same effect.

However, if we dose like we smoked - zero nic for a while and then occasional spikes of nicotine, then nicotine levels would go from low to high quicker and have more effect.

What I'm going to be doing is vape either low or zero most of the time but have treats occasionally when I would have had a cig. Just a couple of drops of medium does it for me. That way, by not taking a steady ineffective low dose I can get a spike that I can feel the buzz with without taking much of a daily dose at all. That's my theory at the moment anyway

I suggest that you try to find a nic level that is just enough to keep you off tobacco, even if you have to have occasional doses of medium or high. As you get used to vaping you'll manage your dose better and can take more control over reducing it if that's what you plan to do.

I was going to try something like this
To start with for say 0ne month, I'd vapour with 18mg ejuice

then I'd mix say 5ml of the 18mg ejuice with 5ml of Glycerin which would give me 10ml of 9mg ejuice, I think! I'd use this for One month

then I'd mix say 5ml of the 18mg ejuice with 10ml of Glycerin which would give me 15ml of 6mg ejuice, I think! I'd use this for One month

After this time I'd use the zero ejuice to vapour.

WELL THAT WAS MY PLAN TILL I READ YOUR POST. I WILL HAVE TO THINK AGAIN. Also I would appreciate if anyone can confirm that the mixes I would try above would be correct.

 

[Kate]

It's just a theory so far Pseudo, I haven't tried it out much yet. It just makes sense to me to not become accustomed to constant doses but to have spikes for treats when I would have had a cig. Nicotine should be more effective that way and more pleasurable.

Your calculations look correct to me, 18, half of 18 and a third of 18.

 

[pseudonym]

It's just a theory so far Pseudo, I haven't tried it out much yet. It just makes sense to me to not become accustomed to constant doses but to have spikes for treats when I would have had a cig. Nicotine should be more effective that way and more pleasurable.

Your calculations look correct to me, 18, half of 18 and a third of 18.

Great Thanks Kate. Actually the other night I changed my cart and topped up with the zero nic and puffed away at it from around 6.30pm until I went to bed and I wasn't climbing the wall. I will give your way a try and when I feel uptight I will go for a big hit... I also ordered a penstyle today so I'm looking forward to see if there is any difference in that from my minicig that I have now.

As you may have noticed, in my prevous posts I've been moaning that I've changed batteries/atomiser/cartridges/juice and still not got any vapour. I've been like a demented budgie...going on and on and on about vapour.
Well my Sister comes in the other day, picks up my cig and vapour is pouring out of it like nobodies business...I'm looking at her like she's got two heads and she says "what" guess I wasn't puffing it properly

 

[Kate]

Lol, I hope you got your sister to show you how it's done There is quite a steep learning curve with these things, it took me a few months to feel like I had a decent technique.

I prefer the bigger devices (except epipes), hopefully the penstyle will be a good one for you. Draw just hard enough to light the battery LED, slow and steady is usually best unless you get a funny switch. Sometimes you have to develop a technique of repeated drawing and blowing slightly in quick succession to get good vapour.

 

[pseudonym]

Lol, I hope you got your sister to show you how it's done There is quite a steep learning curve with these things, it took me a few months to feel like I had a decent technique.

I prefer the bigger devices (except epipes), hopefully the penstyle will be a good one for you. Draw just hard enough to light the battery LED, slow and steady is usually best unless you get a funny switch. Sometimes you have to develop a technique of repeated drawing and blowing slightly in quick succession to get good vapour.

Will let you know how I get on in a week or two. I might even think about getting one of those usb things too. I'll soon be an expert!!!

 

[parapo]

if you cut down nic,lets say every 3-4 weeks,you won't feel a difference when you are finally at low or even zero.

that is what i did,and i already get a satisfying vape with zero liquid,although i still have my last couple of bottles with low 6mg....

i could say throat hit but i don't think it is related to nicotine.


that said.....
i see people vaping permanently high content.
but juice is not tobaco,and you can get your favorite liquid in all strengths,why not cut down the nic?

i admit... after every change there are a couple of days when i vaped almost constantly,but still i think it is worth trying.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

My theory about nicotine dosing has changed a bit recently, I'm not convinced that a steady dose, even at low levels, is having any pleasurable effect. The more we are exposed the more tolerant and dependant we become so gradually the dose has to be increased to have the same effect.

I'd agree with that. I use 24mg or 36mg strength in the day and find taking a five minute break every couple of hours to vape the extra high strength stuff keeps me going. The 36mg gives a bit of a buzz, but the amount I use, not enough to make me feel overdosed or anything.

I've found I'm more likely to get mild OD symptoms when watching TV at home etc, taking frequent puffs on a penstyle or Bling. I use lower nicotine in them, but I think the constant use builds up the nicotine level in the blood over time. Its probably like wearing a couple of nicotine patches... I think this type of use is making my insomnia worse as well.

 

[Starlight]

Hi Starlight, welcome to the forum.

Thanks, Kate! I've read quite a few of your posts with great interest and gratitude for the info in them

Thanks also to everybody else who's chipped in with my query here.

There is quite a steep learning curve with these things, it took me a few months to feel like I had a decent technique.

Oh, you're so right! I get times when the vapour flows out like nobody's business, and then times when nada happens, and it's not that the cartridge or atomiser is dry or the battery's run out or anything like that. I guess I'm still trying to figure out the technique. The 901 and EVO are the only 2 e-cigs I've tried. Silly thing is, is that when I then have a real cigarette, I end up smoking it like an e-cig

I'm still a bit confused over the nicotine "comparison" to real cigs... or maybe it's just that my maths aren't my strong point in this equation!

Also, does the nicotine enter the bloodstream more so via the lungs, or just as much through only the mouth? I ask this as I've never inhaled cigarettes into my lungs even though I've smoked 40-60 a day (yes, I know, a massive amount!). I guess I've been more of a great big passive smoker than a real one, but I nevertheless climbed the walls if I couldn't have a ... (or 10). I'm the kind of smoker who has a cig first thing in the morning as soon as I wake, before even my cup of coffee. Smokers in the past always found me a bit strange for that reason = smoked tons but didn't inhale.

My brand is been Silk Cut Silver (0.1mg nic). For that reason, and also as Silk Cut Silver are so mild that they're almost tasteless, I'm also not sure that I actually know what a "throat hit" is as I suspect I get more of a "tongue" and "roof of the mouth" hit, LOL! I could never smoke any other cigarette as I hated the taste and sensation of strength. But I think I discovered what a throat hit is when I tried a Janty Green Tea - at 18mg high dose to test it before thinking of diluting it - OMG, I thought someone had shot me in the throat! All I could feel was like strong fiery smoke! If that's a throat hit, then sorry but no thanks... . On the other hand, I had no problem with Janty's delicious Melon (also 18mg as they had no lower doses of any flavour at the UK SmokeJuice site) although I've since diluted it for fear of taking in too high a nic content; shame though as it's also lessened the flavour a bit.

Regarding dosage, I started off with more zero than 11mg, then figured I needed the stronger dose in the mornings as that's when I'd otherwise tend to smoke 10 real cigs one after the other the most. Then I go back to zero and have occasional 11mgs in-between, with an occasional real cig now and then. I've also now mixed 0 and 11 mg same flavours so's to get a reduced dose. So it would sound as if my natural tendency is to do as with Kate and Papa Lazarou's new theory?

My usage of real cigs has dropped to around 10 a day, and I'm delighted about that, especially in such a relatively short time. I don't get any sensation of "hits" or highs or buzz or whatever with any strength of liquid, well maybe a tiny bit with an 18 mg dose depending on the flavour. But with real cigs, I'd go bonkers if I didn't have cigs frequently through the day. So I'm addicted to something in smoking, but am not sure exactly to what. Or maybe I'm highly addicted to nic after all, despite all those Silk Cuts being supposedly low nic?

When I started on e-cigs, I found I loved vaping so much that I vaped almost constantly for ages, still do from time to time. I figured that with zero strength, it didn't matter as no nic, no tar etc. Occasionally I pick up one of my e-cigs with 11mg and keep vaping at it, forgetting it's an 11 mg one, oops. I'm not sure I can always tell the difference, nic wise, and that maybe I simply psychologically think I need a higher than zero dose when maybe I don't. The good thing though, is that I now think of picking up a real cig far less often than I ever did before.

So, part of my long epic musing here is that I'm concerned I'll turn into more of a nic addict that I might've been if I vape higher doses of nic juices? On the other hand, is someone who smokes 10 Silk Cut a day less of a nic addict than someone who smokes 100 a day? Or, conversely, is someone who smokes 10 high nic cigs (say, 1mg per cig) a day less of an addict than someone who smokes 100 Silk Cut a day? IOW, is it the quantity regardless of the nic content, or is it the nic strength regardless of the quantity? I remember, way back, when I changed from Bensons or whatever it was at the time, to Silk Cut Ultra Mild (as it was called in those days) that I thought my one Silk Cut at 0.1 mg nic equalled a tenth of a cig at 1mg per cig, so I felt I was rightly high and mighty for taking less nic!

Going back to my original query, who sells decent juice in the UK at doses under 11mg (ie, 4, 6 or 8mg) apart from Totally Wicked who do an 8mg? The only two juice sellers that I know of who sell 0 mg seem to be e-cigs.co.uk and Totally Wicked, but e-cigs.co.uk seems to have very low stock of either 0 or 11 mg at the moment. Or is the only way to get something between 11 and 0 mg to mix it oneself with some glycerine (except that it then also dilutes the flavour)? It's even harder to DIY one's own juice as there are no suitable food flavourings in the UK to buy that I know of, or else I'd give it a try.

Wow... I've just seen how much I've written here ! Sorry about that! I guess it's a matter of "so many questions and thoughts from an enthusiastic newbie"!

 

[Kate]

It's interesting that you don't inhale smoke from cigs, that's more of a pipe or cigar habit. Apparently the mucus membrane in our mouths and throats absorbs nicotine better in a high pH environment but it's said that our lungs might be more efficient with lower pH. Our vapour, pipe tobacco and cigars have high pH in common and cigarettes are more acidic. That leads me to believe that we are getting better absorption from our mouths and don't necessarily need to inhale vapour for nicotine.

To be honest, getting off tobacco is probably the best thing you could do for your health, even if you do raise your nicotine intake a little. Nicotine isn't benign but it's really not as bad as many of the other things in tobacco, a low dose might even be good for us. High doses can cause problems so long term high use is not really wise.

If you are happy with a habit of zero vaping with occasional use of nicotine then I'd say that is more like smoking than vaping nicotine constantly. It's my aim to do this at some point, I'm working towards it. The question is what dose to use when you do have 'nicotine breaks'. That is likely to be an individual thing. When I've had no nicotine for a few hours I can get some effect with 6mg. I think 11mg would be very satisfying and 18mg for me is pushing it. My thoughts are that the lower the better and I'm gradually reducing my intake to smaller and smaller numbers. So far I haven't experienced cravings for tobacco, if I did I'd rather take a higher dose of eliquid than risk being tempted to go back to smoking.

If you contact Tim from Smokejuice.co.uk he can order you Janty eliquid in the strengths you want. I don't know for sure but I think Janty eliquid is good quality and they have some really yummy flavours. Strengths are zero, 6mg, 11mg and 16mg.

Another thing you can do is buy high nic and zero nic in the same flavour and mix in the quantities you want to get the nic level you want. You can make different strengths this way and you don't lose the flavour.

If you want to know more about mixing with glycerine or propylene glycol and flavours this might be a good place to start looking - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/5066-eliquid-recepies.html

 

[BadSeed]

I'm vaping purely high strength juice at the moment. I do plan on cutting that down to medium on my next juice order though, but that'll be a while away as I've got plenty of juice for now.

 

[Starlight]

Sorry to have taken a while to reply. Thanks for that, Kate, every little or large bit of information helps.

I'm now about 2 and half weeks into it, and I'm finding that I think I need to go a bit higher on the nicotine in liquids, even if only for the moments when I'd have those "all important" cigarettes, like in the morning or after a meal or at stressful moments. Only thing is, is that some of the 16-18mg seem too strong when it comes to the stinging burning sensation in my mouth. I don't know if it's the nicotine or maybe the propylene glycol. Mind you, by the end of the day, I seem to have it regardless of whether it's 0 or 18 mg nic. I'm not quite sure why I'm getting that, I might start a new topic to ask about it.

In-between, I'll vape 0, 6 and 11 mg with quite a lot of 0. I guess at the moment, I'm going by what I sense I need? My plot is to eventually get to lower doses as well as to come off analogues totally as I'm still on about 10-15 a day which is still a whole load better than the 40-60 a day I was on!

I've already bought 0 and 11 mg of the same flavours in order to mix them 50/50 and get a lower dose, something I learnt about on this forum of course! . For those I couldn't get a 0 mg bottle of, I got some glycerine from Boots and cut it with that, but it does seem to make it a bit thick as well as reduce the flavour a bit.

I wouldn't mind trying to make my own recipes but it seems there's nowhere in the UK to get flavouring that would be safe enough to use?

Getting off tobacco for health reasons is something I really want to do and e-cigs have been the most promising thing so far, well, actually have been the ONLY thing so far to even begin to help.

 

[UkUsa]

Hi starlight, glad that the ecig is working out for you. I know i'm so glad i found out about these thngs.
I started with high and am now using a med. I have also been thinking of mixing my own and was reading a post by Kate about the flavorings. This is that post. They will ship to the UK.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/2498-lorann-candy-flavours.html

You must be saving a .... load of cash by dropping from 40 - 50 to 10 analogs a day. I know when i still lived over there i smoked rollies. Living in Kent we had plenty of supplies coming through the chunnel from France.

I started out on high nic juice and carts for the first three weeks. I've been using 16mg for a week now and noticing too much difference apart from the juice seems a little smoother. If anything i'm vaping less. But that may be down to the novelty factor wearing off a little.

Anyways, just wanted to say congrats. Glad you are enjoying the whole experience.

 

[Kate]

Aye, I'm glad it's working for you too

You've cut down on tobacco loads in a short time, good for you.

This thread might interest you, it's about cravings and how they relate with tobacco additives - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-not-complete-substitute-tobacco-smoking.html

 

[Monie]

Aye, I'm glad it's working for you too

You've cut down on tobacco loads in a short time, good for you.

This thread might interest you, it's about cravings and how they relate with tobacco additives - (SNIP - I can't post links yet)

Kate, I also want to thank you for all the input on nic levels. I haven't even recieved my first e-cig yet, but I've been glued to this forum for the last couple days and really have found your various post on nic levels very helpful.

I know everyone here is using these for their own personal reasons, but personally, for me, I'm just sick of being an addict. I have no judgement on anyone who wants this as an alternative and plans on using high levels indefinately....whatever works for you is my attitude on that, but I hate that the cigs have so much control over MY life and I personally don't want to swap the addiction from one - the analogs...to another.... being worried if my batteries are charged or going to run out....I am looking to kick the habit all together and sure hope this helps! All the information I've read here has been so helpful to me in trying to figure out my own plan of attack for my personal goal.

So again, thanks to Kate & all that post here. It's so helpful to us newbies!