18350 Battery Stress-Test and Safety Demonstration

[Captain Blackbird]

Ok, Folx...

I everytime hear something about EXPLODING batteries (especially in german forums) - i'm tired of it...
So i did a 18350 Streßtest.

NOTICE:

I am experienced and know what i am doing, i don't want to animate anyone to make such experiments!

I also use only batteries from renominated manufacturers like:
LG, Panasonic (Efest buys from Pana) , Samsung, Sony (and some others)

But not recycled Notebook crap like Ultrafire / any kind with FIRE in name or cheap noname ones!

In this test i did - knowingly - the worst mistakes you can do, like
- putting Battery into HOT water from the tap
(for better reaction with the agressive Lithium inside)
- charging wet battery with 2A current - far far away from any specifications
- using this battery in a low resistance mechanical mod

So i wanted the battery to explode (unless i know it better what would happen)

So this shows you really how dangerous QUALITY IMR batteries are:
https://plus.google.com/1168720638709054...v6sNhQuxPS

Sorry the Photo comments are in German, but should be easy to translate.

The result was very disappointing, you'll see
(expected nothing else)

Perhaps i'll do some other weird Stuff when i got time for it.
Hope the Informations are useful

 

[Thrasher]

Good deal, but it isnt the way a battery vents that is the point of such discussions it is what happens when the vented gas cannot escape the mod body. while "exploding battery" is a very general term it refers more to the mod itself exploding and not the actual battery.

of all the recorded cases thus far for exploding mods and flashlights this is exactly what has happened, the battery itself did not pop but vented into a sealed or blocked tube..

I feel the same way about the well known batteries and usually trust them to degas or vent exactly like they are intended to.

 

[Captain Blackbird]

This will be one of next ones, if you get a "Pipebomb" when it's shorten in an closed tube...

Otherwise i don't know any - actual - batterymod without an venthole or a predetermined breaking point.

In case of DIY Mods without, this is own stupidity...

I remember nearly 2 years ago some american lost his teeth because of several mistakes he made:
Cheap battery with unsave chemistry and not able to handle the current what was ripped out of battery.
Closed tube without ventholes.

Sorry but this is more than stupidity!
Would be the same like i drink one litre of gasoline because the smell is so tasty *megafacepalm*

In case of flashlights, there is the problem of stacking which is another theme.
This is not the problem of vapers, where normally or 90% one battery is used.

In case of exploded EGO-Batteries this is another point:
sometimes there is a LiPo battery in it instead of a LiIon with IMR chemistry.
Sure you can't see what's inside, but that wasn't even the subject of my test.

I clearly talked about safety of ONE QUALITY IMR cell - nothing else.
So don't misinterpret anything into it

Ah and also the battery didn't gas significant even when charging with 2A and wet during my test.
Also the reaction of water and lithium didn't produce any amout of gas which was inflammable (testet) nor the amount was enough to produce enough pressure to expand any tube or a balloon.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Nice writeup...there is a reason people suggest using KNOWN good batteries suppliers and manufacturers

Li Ion charging is MUCH different than discharging...they are designed for slow charging but FAST discharge
Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

Battery Basics for Mods. IMR or Protected? By: Baditude

 

[Thrasher]

Sorry but this is more than stupidity!
Would be the same like i drink one litre of gasoline because the smell is so tasty *megafacepalm*

lol the rum i drink is close enough to gas as is at 160 proof, who knows maybe some 106 octane wouldnt be so bad


but nothing is being read into it, many tests are posted on youtube and it takes extreme conditions to get hybrid Li batteries to fail as you have also proven. and I agree except for cheap no name cells in crap ego's almost every battery that has failed is simply due to user error or abuse. (and in most cases that is why the ego's fail as well).

 

[Ryedan]

Ok, Folx...

I everytime hear something about EXPLODING Batteries (especially in german forums) - i'm tired of it...
So i did a 18350 Streßtest.

Fascinating test Captain Blackbird! I don't understand the implications of stress testing with hot water. Can you explain please?

I would also like to know what battery it is and what mAh it is.

Thanks

 

[Thrasher]

Fascinating test Captain Blackbird! I don't understand the implications of stress testing with hot water. Can you explain please?

I would also like to know what battery it is and what mAh it is.

Thanks

raw Li dropped into water test:

 

[Ryedan]

LOL, I know Thrasher, that's why I tend to keep my batts dry. I'm interested in the implications of this type of stress testing in relation to vaping. Thought there might be some correlation to over loading, or maybe internal shorting. The 2 amp charge is interesting also, depending on which battery it actually is.

 

[Thrasher]

Its not related to vaping from what I gather the OP is trying to push the battery for extreme failure using several unsafe conditions coupled together to show how much it really takes to kill a good battery.

 

[dr g]

I would think a hard short would be an appropriate test for this.

 

[Ryedan]

I would think a hard short would be an appropriate test for this.

Over draw and hard shorting is what I would do to test a battery if I really wanted to see how it handles stress. It is nice to know you don't have to worry much if your battery gets wet though. Never seen this done before.

 

[dr g]

How about salt water
Or soup ...

 

[Captain Blackbird]

Its not related to vaping from what I gather the OP is trying to push the battery for extreme failure using several unsafe conditions coupled together to show how much it really takes to kill a good battery.

Yep.
Thats the point

 

[Captain Blackbird]

How about salt water
Or soup ...

Forget it, perhaps i'll choke if i forgot what was in the soup.
Nice try, m8

 

[Rader2146]

Batteries are sealed units, so submerging them in water isnt going to do much unless you want to wait for the rust to weaken the case to the point of failure.

Beyond that, there isnt very much Lithium metal in a Lithium ION battery. What little metal there is, is rendered chemically inert by the bond between it and the other elements.

 

[Captain Blackbird]

btw.
The battery is a SMR Dampfstrom - you can't buy it anywhere, it was manufactured specially for a small amount of german people

Although there are only 2 really good batteries in 18350 segment:
AW (only here the King) closely followed by the (Black with red Band on top) Smok VMax Flathead (half price)

Only this two ones you can doing perversions like:
Charging up to 4.5V
Charging with 2A without getting too hot, but 1A would be better to get it complete full

btw. just for info: the longest lifespan of a LiIon would be reached if cycled between 30-90% capacity

In 18500 segment actually the best choice is the Enerdan (prduced really by YikLik - YLK printed on it, Enerdan is only a Label)
dirty-orange 1700mAh


In 18650 there is the hardest battle, also the amount of choice is there even more:

Top Highdrain Cell for ULRA experiments is the Green Sony Konion US18650VTC4 with 30A continous discharge
Otherwise the Panasonic NCR18650PD (successor of the CGR18650CH - discontinued)
is a good choice and an alrounder with (both) 10A cont. discharge

The NCR18650B is quite good for conditions like Vamo - a good compromise between current&capacity (half current of the PD)
but somewhat expensive than the PD

Also the Samsung 18650-22P was a good choice nearly a year ago
the -26F is ICR Chemistry but i did not nice things to it and it has also very good durability unless the "unsave" chemistry
(actually the choice of Joyetech as default battery for eVic)

Another speciality is the very unknown LG 18650D1 - this one could be charged to 4.35V to get full capacity of REAL 3000mAh
(one of my favourites, in my Vamo it wouldn't get never empty i thought when i got it over a year ago)

AW oft course is nowadays far behind the Bigplayers Panasonic/Sony/Samsung and totally overpriced
In germany you pay double of a NCR18650PD and also get less runningtime/capacity

 

[Captain Blackbird]

Batteries are sealed units, so submerging them in water isnt going to do much unless you want to wait for the rust to weaken the case to the point of failure.

Beyond that, there isnt very much Lithium metal in a Lithium ION battery. What little metal there is, is rendered chemically inert by the bond between it and the other elements.

Agree.
But so far the hot water in my case gone through the venting holes as you see on pictures
So a cell is never sealed completely.

 

[Thrasher]

Otherwise the Panasonic NCR18650PD (successor of the CGR18650CH - discontinued)

just to keep you in the loop - panny just rereleased the PD as the new model "PF", slight change in discharge curve, a few 100 more Mah in real capacity and stays cooler under high current draw.. not really a new battery but more of a tuning of the chemistry, you will see both on the shelf for a while im sure, until stock on the pd runs down.

 

[Captain Blackbird]

Ah, good to know.

I'm actually more in charge of developing stuff: some hybrids and the cooperation with L-Rider after we found some bugs in Lambo6.0
Bussardo also had some similar results i saw last days

 

[Thrasher]

if you can that rider voltage thing worked out it will be a nice mod.