2 New Toppers for Provari....

[Zbeast08]

I need a couple questions answered please!! I have the KFL+ and the Sophia for my "Provaris". I met with a forum member this morning and he helped me build a microcoil for my KFL+ and JWJ63 was a huge help and very helpful btw!! I didn't have the Sophia this morning with me as it was in my mailbox when I returned home!! Anyway, the kayfun is vaping like a charm, we did a coil with 30ga kanthal wrapped 8 times on a (I think) a 2 mm or 5/64 little screwdriver with cotton as a wick, very nice vape!!

I am always full of questions and forgot to ask him a few so I thought I would ask here...when I get into something new, I want to know everything I can before I decide if it is for me or not!! I have read and searched and taken notes but things are getting a little haywire so will the pros on the above 2 toppers please chime in!!

1. JWJ shared some 28,30,32 ga kanthal with me until I need to order some. Please explain what happens when you use each ga kanthal and what the wraps determine. The coil we made was at 1.9 ohms which was great at 4.1 volts vaping HHV Dragon!! But what happens with less wraps, more wraps, 28vs30vs32??

2. This is probably subjective..I have read that some boil their organic cotton some don't, do you??

3. KFL worked great all afternoon then I let a friend try it and he wasn't holding the fire button while he was drawing and the kf started to flood...juice was coming out of the air hole, I freaked, did a few fires and no draw and it seems to be ok now...what caused this gurgling, flooding, my friend not holding the fire button while sucking??

4. As I said, the Sophia arrived today and I purchased some premade coils/cups. It has the silica wicks, can I remove the silica and replace with cotton and all be good since it seems that most prefer the cotton wicks or do I need to build coils as we did with KFL?

5. I know the Sophia needs the r,nr wire which JWJgave me a couple as well, but do I build the coil the same as we did for the kayfun as far as wraps, etc?

6. Last question for now!! As I stated we used I think a 5/64 tool but I have read that some use 1/64, paperclips,toothpicks, etc., what is the effect of using these different size bits/tools/things?? Smaller coils, more wraps, means what??

Sorry for the lengthy post and a big thank you to JWJ63 for getting me started today, but I felt like I have used him enough today!! The KFL+ is super and hope the Sophia is just as great!!

7. Just curious, is a long and slow drag preferred over a short and firm pull since it is a coil that heats up pretty quick?? Question is for both toppers!

 

[bosun]

Well I'll see what I can do explaining kanthal.
Kanthal comes in different diameters, the higher (thinner wire) the number (gauge), the higher the resistance.
Kanthal A-1 Wire Specs: (Ohms Per Inch)
•28 AWG- 0.439 Ohms/in, 0.0508 Diameter (in.)
•30 AWG- 0.696 Ohms/in, 0.0100 Diameter (in.)
•32 AWG- 1.091 Ohms/in, 0.0080 Diameter (in.)
•33 AWG- 1.383 Ohms/in, 0.0071 Diameter (in.)
•34 AWG- 1.758 Ohms/in, 0.0063 Diameter (in.)

So depending on what type of coil you are making, and how much room you have to put the actual coil into is affected by the gauge you use. Roughly the thinner the wire (higher the gauge number) the faster it heats up and cool downs. You can wrap a coil directly around your wicking material, or wrap the coil around a mandrel (drill bit, syringe needle, screwdriver, paperclip, etc.) and then insert your wick into the coil. Changing the diameter of your mandrel, you'll use more or less wire and the resistance will be different. I'll wrap 32 gauge wire around a 1/16th inch drill bit, about five wraps and get around two ohms resistance. If I used the same wire and same number of wraps around a thicker mandrel I would get a higher resistance due to using more wire. Help any?

 

[Zbeast08]

Thanks bosun, yes that does help!!

 

[SpettroJoe]

some people like to make the coil smaller diameter with more wraps and others like the coil a little bigger with less wraps, it all comes down to what you like. There are a ton of videos out on how people wrap them you can watch them and see what you like and don't, some want more wraps with more surface heating the wick but it will just come to you after doing many different kinds what you like and don't like. Just try different coil builds for awhile until you find one you really like with different gage kanthal and wraps.

Personally i do about 5 wraps on a drill bit (not sure of size) with 30g and it comes out about 1.8 ohms and i really like it so i pretty much just stay with that build.

Edit: this is on the Kayfun style, don't have a sophia so cant answer those.

 

[Zbeast08]

Thanks for your response SpettroJoe!!

 

[sunnata]

as far as question #3, yes I do believe your friend doing primer puffs would flood the KFL pretty quick. personally I haven't seen any flood big enough that it would leak from the airhole, but one good trick with the KFL if you aren't aware of it, whenever you get flooding, flip it upside down, and vape it thru the airhole until the flooding is gone. as I said, I only had very little flooding myself, but it does fix it really quick. you can also tap the airhole if you get dry hits, to prime it even faster. I learned these from the end of this video: How to build a Kayfun RBA // Vape Rev EDU - YouTube

HTH, good luck

 

[Krint]

For question 4: I am using the pre made coils as well, and have swapped out with cotton and it works great. You should have no issue using it in your sophia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zbeast08]

Thanks to all so far for the responses, I actually just watched another video...this one by Phil comparing the Russian 91 and the KFL, that was a help as well as the vape rev video!! Please keep the responses coming!

Edit...I noticed in the vape rev video, she just wrapped 30ga around doubled up 2mm wick 4-5 times. The wraps were not touching, is this just a "coil" versus micro coil? I didn't notice that she torched the kanthal prior to wrapping the silica, is this not neccassry? In Phil's video, he torched the wire and it appears the wraps are very tight, I guess they need to be touching each other, correct??

 

[MadOzodi]

I learned how to wrap my coils by watching RiP Trippers videos on YouTube...which may or may not be a good thing because now I want to wrap crazy coils once I get my R91.

I don't torch mine. I just dry burn them till they glow and then squeeze with tweezers to get the wraps tight. If you watch the videos, you'll understand what I'm saying. Then it's easy peasy to thread cotton through - or pack cotton around - the coil.

If you like to tinker, you're in for some fun Zbeast!

 

[qorax]

I need a couple questions answered please!! I have the KFL+ and the Sophia for my "Provaris". I met with a forum member this morning and he helped me build a microcoil for my KFL+ and JWJ63 was a huge help and very helpful btw!! I didn't have the Sophia this morning with me as it was in my mailbox when I returned home!! Anyway, the kayfun is vaping like a charm, we did a coil with 30ga kanthal wrapped 8 times on a (I think) a 2 mm or 5/64 little screwdriver with cotton as a wick, very nice vape!!

I am always full of questions and forgot to ask him a few so I thought I would ask here...when I get into something new, I want to know everything I can before I decide if it is for me or not!! I have read and searched and taken notes but things are getting a little haywire so will the pros on the above 2 toppers please chime in!!...

Sorry for the lengthy post and a big thank you to JWJ63 for getting me started today, but I felt like I have used him enough today!! The KFL+ is super and hope the Sophia is just as great!!

Hi, my responses are in 'all caps' below each (this is also per your PM to me):

1. JWJ shared some 28,30,32 ga kanthal with me until I need to order some. Please explain what happens when you use each ga kanthal and what the wraps determine. The coil we made was at 1.9 ohms which was great at 4.1 volts vaping HHV Dragon!! But what happens with less wraps, more wraps, 28vs30vs32??

EACH GUAGE WILL GIVE YOU DIFFERENT RESISTANCES "PER LENGTH". MEANING: FOR THE SAME RESISTANCE ~ 28AWG WILL NEED THE LONGEST LENGTH OF WIRE, 30AWG A LITTLE SHORTER, 32AWG A LOT SHORTER AND SO ON...

THUS, IT IS NOT 'WRAPS' OR 'DRILL-BIT OR WHETEVER' THAT MATTERS ~ IT IS THE "LENGTH" OF YOUR WIRE WHICH'LL DETERMINE YOUR END-OHMS. A WISE ACTION SHOULD BE TO USE ONE OF THE ONLINE 'RESISTANCE WIRE CALCULATORS' TO KNOW HOW MUCH WIRE TO USE TO ACHIEVE THE RESISTANCE YOU WANT. PLS READ MY POST ON IT (POST #6526): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-gp-spheroid-gp-paps-gp-piccolo-more-653.html

NOTE: IT'S ADVISABLE TO USE 28AWG (OR MAX 30AWG) WITH MICROCOILS. THE REASON BEING ~ A BIT STURDIER COIL HELPS WHEN INSERTING THE COTTON WICK. LESS CHANCES OF DEFORMING THE COIL. BESIDES, MICROCOILS ARE MADE WITH MORE WRAPS THAN THE USUAL ~ TO GET A LENGTHY 'TUBE-LIKE' COIL OFFERING MORE SURFACE AREA TO WARM THE WET COTTON ENOUGH TO DOLE OUT THE VAPORS.

THUS, THINNER GUAGE WIRES WILL HIT LARGER RESISTANCES IN THE SAME LENGTH. AND ALSO, MICROCOILS WORK THE BEST BELOW 1.5Ω +/-2Ω.

2. This is probably subjective..I have read that some boil their organic cotton some don't, do you??

YOU CAN USE ANY COTTON AS LONG AS IT IS NOT "SYNTHETIC" OR "MIXED/HYBRID". AND AVOID INDUSTRIAL COTTON BALLS/YARN. MOST CONSUMER COTTON ARE BLEACHED - WHICH THOUGH USABLE - MUST BE BOILED. HOWEVER, ORGANIC COTTON IS USUALLY 'CHEMICAL FREE' AND THUS, CAN BE USED 'DIRECTLY' OUT OF THE PACKAGE FOR OUR WICKS.

REMEMBER, EVERY COTTON WILL LEAVE SOME COTTONY TASTE FOR A WHILE - THAT USUALLY GO AWAY WITHIN A FEW DRAWS. SOME TAKE LONGER THAN THE OTHERS - BUT WILL EVENTUALLY BE OK. I USE "SWISSPERS" ORGANIC - AND THEY BECOME INERT WITH 7-10 DRAWS (THE BEST IMHO). PLS READ MY MY POST ON IT AT ECF (POST #4344): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/436118-kayfun-lite-435.html#post11088148

3. KFL worked great all afternoon then I let a friend try it and he wasn't holding the fire button while he was drawing and the kf started to flood...juice was coming out of the air hole, I freaked, did a few fires and no draw and it seems to be ok now...what caused this gurgling, flooding, my friend not holding the fire button while sucking??

KAYFUNS (ALSO IT'S CLONE - THE RUSSIANS) ARE PRESSURE DEPENDENT DESIGNED ATTYS. EVERY DRAW CREATES A NEGATIVE PRESSURE INSIDE THE FIRING CHAMBER - AND THE JUICE GUSHES IN TO BALANCE IT OUT. IF THIS SUDDEN INFLUX OF LIQUID IS NOT ATOMIZED IN TIME - IT'D FLOOD THE CHAMBER.

THE TRICK WITH KAYFUNS IS TO "FIRE-DRAW-CONTINUE FIRE-STOP DRAW-THEN RELEASE THE FIRING BUTTON". MEANING: EVEN IF WE STOP OUR DRAW WE SHOULDN'T IMMEDIATELY RELEASE OUR FINGERS FROM THE FIRING BUTTON - B'COZ OUR DRAW HAS PULLED-IN ENOUGH LIQUID AND MOST OF THAT SHOULD BE ATOMIZED, ELSE, THE NEXT DRAW WILL SEE EXCESSIVE JUICE INSIDE THE CHAMBER - AND THE CHAIN OF EVENTS WILL FLOOD IT.

HOWEVER, UNLESS THE FLOODING IS ENORMOUS (CAN BE ASSESSED BY INVERTING THE KAYFUN WITH DRIP-TIP REMOVED ~ IT'D FLOW OUT FROM THE MOUTH PIECE IN WHICH CASE) ~ A BIT OF A LONGER "UN-DRAWN" FIRING ELIMINATES THIS PROBLEM. OR ELSE, THE CHAMBER CAN BE 'DRIED-UP' BY INVERTING THE KAYFUN AND 'BLOWING' THRU THE AIR-HOLE. CAUTION: NEVER DO THIS KEEPING THE KAYFUN IN UPRIGHT POSITION.

PLS READ SOME OF MY BASIC TIPS HERE:

TIP-1: HOW TO PUFF? (POST #1109): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/436118-kayfun-lite-111.html
TIP-2: HOW MUCH TO FILL? (POST #1170): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/436118-kayfun-lite-117.html
TIP-3: SMALL SIZED WICK WORKS BEST? (POST #1192): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/436118-kayfun-lite-120.html
TIP-4: COIL & WICK PLACEMENT: (POST #1201): http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/436118-kayfun-lite-121.html
TIP-5: NO JUICE LEFT BEHIND (POST #1705):
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/436118-kayfun-lite-171.html#post10427392

4. As I said, the Sophia arrived today and I purchased some premade coils/cups. It has the silica wicks, can I remove the silica and replace with cotton and all be good since it seems that most prefer the cotton wicks or do I need to build coils as we did with KFL?

YOU CAN, HOWEVER SINCE THE WIRES WILL TYPICALLY BE THIN IN THE PREMADES (AROUND 32-34AWG) YOU ARE LIKELY TO WRIGGLE/DEFORM YOUR COIL WHILE INSERTING THE COTTON. BESIDES, COTTON WICKS ARE MOST SUITABLE FOR "MICROCOILS" - NOT FOR REGULAR BUILDS.

5. I know the Sophia needs the r,nr wire which JWJgave me a couple as well, but do I build the coil the same as we did for the kayfun as far as wraps, etc?

THIS IS A SIMILAR QUESTION AS THE FIRST ONE. REMEMBER, IT'S THE 'LENGTH OF THE WIRE' WHICH MATTERS. AND JOINING 'R'+'NR' (WHICH IS A MUST WITH CARTO-RBAs) NEEDS A BIT OF EFFORT AND PATIENCE. IN THE INITIAL STAGES IT'D BE WISE TO STICK TO PREMADE COILS (THE STORMY TYPES) AND RESORT TO CONJOINING THE WIRES WHEN YOU ARE A BIT EXPERIENCED.

MOREOVER, HAVING A 'WIRE WELDER' HELPS. HERE'S MY TAKE ON THE PIKO-3 WIRE-WELDER:
@ECF: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/466291-wire-welder-piko-3-a.html
@Vapour Wall: www.vaporwall.com • Login

6. Last question for now!! As I stated we used I think a 5/64 tool but I have read that some use 1/64, paperclips,toothpicks, etc., what is the effect of using these different size bits/tools/things?? Smaller coils, more wraps, means what??

REMEMBER, THERE'S A 'MICRO' IN THE MICROCOILS. WHICH MEANS THAT THESE TYPE OF BUILDS SHOULD BE DONE ON THIN (SMALL OD) WRAPPING TOOL. A FINE DRILL BIT, OR A M3 SCREW OR A TOOTHPICK AT MOST. I USE TOOTHPICKS FOR ALL MY MICRO BUILDS. ONCE AGAIN IT DOESN'T MATTER ON WHAT YOU WRAP - WHAT MATTERS IS WHAT 'LENGTH' OF WIRE YOU ARE USING TO BUILD YOUR COIL VIS-A-VIS THE TARGETED RESISTANCE.

7. Just curious, is a long and slow drag preferred over a short and firm pull since it is a coil that heats up pretty quick?? Question is for both toppers!

KAYFUNS PREFER 'SLOW AND LENGTHY DRAWS'. PLS REFER MY 'TIPS' MENTIONED AT SL. NO. 3 ABOVE.

Hope that helped buddy!
__________________________________________________________________
Some of my Microcoil & Cotton builds on Kayfun/s:
Build-1: The Standard Silica setup. Here at Post #617: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...stems/436118-kayfun-lite-62.html#post10116934
Build-2: Hemp Twine: Here at Post #1510: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/436118-kayfun-lite-151.html#post10377635
Build-3: Microcoil with Cotton Yarn: Here at Post #2924: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/436118-kayfun-lite-293.html#post10769163
Build-4: Double Microcoil with Cotton: Here at Post #2057: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...tems/436118-kayfun-lite-206.html#post10552795

 

[Zbeast08]

Thank q, that was awesome as jwj got me going and I had these last details of questions to get out of my system, AWESOME? I may have other questions as I dive into the Sophia in the next couple day!! Like right now, I have a question before I order some things at storms...if I already see that I will use cotton where ever I can, do I even need any silica or echo wool for these two toppers...not even real sure what the difference is between these silica and echo wool wicks?? We are getting close until I pop out the Sophia!! Many thanks to all responses!

 

[mackman]

Here's a cheat sheet for #1

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/446263-micro-coils-ohms-description.html

 

[Zbeast08]

Thanks mackman, great help!!

 

[sunnata]

Edit...I noticed in the vape rev video, she just wrapped 30ga around doubled up 2mm wick 4-5 times. The wraps were not touching, is this just a "coil" versus micro coil? I didn't notice that she torched the kanthal prior to wrapping the silica, is this not neccassry? In Phil's video, he torched the wire and it appears the wraps are very tight, I guess they need to be touching each other, correct??

yes, she wraps what I call a 'regular' coil on the video. IMO they offer decent performance and are even easier and faster to make. I use them when I am in a rush. I'm not qualified to explain the pros and cons of touching vs spacing so hopefully someone else will offer advice.

I've seen some charts that help explain the different sizes/names of each coil setup, here's one example: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-these-microcoils-my-first.html#post10881215

torching the kanthal helps remove the springness and some find it easier to wrap after torching. it may also help remove any oils and impurities, but it's personal preference if you wish to torch or not. I torch 28 and skip torching on 32.

on my next build I want to try cotton one last time. my previous attempts weren't exactly a success, but I believe it was due to rushing it and not waiting long enough for it to prime. this pic is what I am planning to attempt, with wicks touching the sides of the coil, might give you some ideas too: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...working-wick-coil-setup-261.html#post11533435

 

[Zbeast08]

yes, she wraps what I call a 'regular' coil on the video. IMO they offer decent performance and are even easier and faster to make. I use them when I am in a rush. I'm not qualified to explain the pros and cons of touching vs spacing so hopefully someone else will offer advice.

I've seen some charts that help explain the different sizes/names of each coil setup, here's one example: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-these-microcoils-my-first.html#post10881215

torching the kanthal helps remove the springness and some find it easier to wrap after torching. it may also help remove any oils and impurities, but it's personal preference if you wish to torch or not. I torch 28 and skip torching on 32.

on my next build I want to try cotton one last time. my previous attempts weren't exactly a success, but I believe it was due to rushing it and not waiting long enough for it to prime. this pic is what I am planning to attempt, with wicks touching the sides of the coil, might give you some ideas too: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...working-wick-coil-setup-261.html#post11533435

Thanks!! However, I could not read the chart in the link, blurred!! It could be on my end but if someone has a better copy/view of that chart I would be most appreciative!!

 

[sunnata]

its pretty blurry for me as well, don't know of a better looking one atm, sorry about that

 

[qorax]

Seams readable alright to me√

 

[sunnata]

well I recently started using reading glasses, the past 3 years have been blurry enough to me, but yes, readable

still couldn't resist cleaning it up a bit

 

[Jaguar07]

Just in Response to Question #2:

To boil or not to boil.

I only use sterile cotton. If it meets sterile medical guidelines, and USP, I don't feel a need to boil it myself.
CVS - A chain retail drug store in southern california, offers a roll of 4 ounces of Sterile rolled cotton, for less than $7. I have used less than an ounce of it in 4 months and I use the cotton for wicks for everything I use. I often put a new wick in daily.

 

[Zbeast08]

Thanks, the chart is clear as a bell now!!