26650 Batteries: Why Are There Only Off Brands?

[sonicbomb]

Actually Aspire/Yongdeli are the only ones I know of that sell batteries specifically for vaping. They even mention vaping in their datasheets. Virtually everyone else warns not for use in electronic cigarettes.

Aspire rewrap at source, but we've already had that discussion. Every one of the Aspire 18650 and 21700s that Mooch has tested have proven to be woefully over-rated and under performing as per the standard rewrappers modus operandi.

Bench Test Results: Aspire 40A 4000mAh 21700...hugely overrated, incorrect Aspire data, rewrapping

Bench Test Results: Aspire Unrated 1800mAh 18650...now using a different battery, performs worse

Aspire 20A 2500mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery

Bench Test Results: Aspire 35A 3000mAh 18650...preposterously overrated, incorrect Aspire data

 

[BillW50]

Aspire rewrap at source, but we've already had that discussion. Every one of the Aspire 18650 and 21700s that Mooch has tested have proven to be woefully over-rated and under performing as per the standard rewrappers modus operandi.

Bench Test Results: Aspire 40A 4000mAh 21700...hugely overrated, incorrect Aspire data, rewrapping

Bench Test Results: Aspire Unrated 1800mAh 18650...now using a different battery, performs worse

Aspire 20A 2500mAh ICR 18650 Bench Test Results...only a 15A battery

Bench Test Results: Aspire 35A 3000mAh 18650...preposterously overrated, incorrect Aspire data

Yeah, yeah... I never tested anything but the Aspire 26650. So I have no idea what the others are like. And no Aspire are not rewraps! PBusardo made a video of Aspire's battery factory. Showed them making 18650 from start to finish. Now if you want to claim PBusardo faked it all, well let's hear what you got.

 

[BillW50]

How about 18650 to 26650 Adapter?

Know any 18650 cells manufactured rated at 20A (or Mooch 30A rated) at 4300mah?

 

[Robin Becker]

Yeah, yeah... I never tested anything but the Aspire 26650. So I have no idea what the others are like. And no Aspire are not rewraps! PBusardo made a video of Aspire's battery factory. Showed them making 18650 from start to finish. Now if you want to claim PBusardo faked it all, well let's hear what you got.

Please see on those short videos the difference between fully autmated battery manufacturing and Semi automated manufacturing.

 

[BillW50]

Please see on those short videos the difference between fully autmated battery manufacturing and Semi automated manufacturing.

Yeah and LG and Samsung say don't use for electronic cigarettes too. Apparently they won't take any responsibility if one of their cells blows up in your face. Not cool at all.

 

[Robin Becker]

Know any 18650 cells manufactured rated at 20A (or Mooch 30A rated) at 4300mah?

There is no 18650 with 4300 mAh, not with 20A and not with 1A! highest capacity is currently at around 3500 mAh

 

[BillW50]

There is no 18650 with 4300 mAh, not with 20A and not with 1A! highest capacity is currently at around 3500 mAh

That is what I am saying, why bother with a 26650 adapter for an 18650 when a 26650 is better?

 

[Robin Becker]

That is what I am saying, why bother with a 26650 adapter for an 18650 when a 26650 is better?

Now I understand, what you mean...The main issue, I guess, is that many consumers are insecure about the quality of the chinese manufactured batteries. So they would rather buy 18650 from Samsung SDI (South-Korea and not Japan ), LG Chem, or Sony and Panasonic, rather then buying 26650 with more capacity, but from a Chinese manufacturer?!

 

[BillW50]

Ah yes! But none of those manufactures will stick their neck on the line and say theirs are good enough for vaping. They are too chicken to believe in their cells for such uses.

There was a Florida case were a vaper had an Efest battery blow up in his face. Did like $40k worth of damage to his face and why they went after the eBay seller, I dunno. As Efest was really the seller. And the lawyer claimed that Efest rewraps are really Sony and Panasonic cells. And they were awarded 2 mil plus medical expenses.

Gainesville man wins $2M verdict after e-cigarette explodes in his mouth

 

[Robin Becker]

Ah yes! But none of those manufactures will stick their neck on the line and say theirs are good enough for vaping. They are too chicken to believe in their cells for such uses.

There was a Florida case were a vaper had an Efest battery blow up in his face. Did like $40k worth of damage to his face and why they went after the eBay seller, I dunno. As Efest was really the seller. And the lawyer claimed that Efest rewraps Sony and Panasonic cells. And they were awarded 2 mil plus medical expenses.

Frankly speaking I believe that most of the accidents that happen so far, are mainly caused by a bad design of the battery mod, rather then because of a bad battery.
Of course, if a battery is damaged and a consumer still use it, that can happen...but at least on 2 well known cases in Germany, the explosions were as a result of purchasing of counterfeitings (Clowns) or bad design of battery mods.
And even if I don´t trust Efest (like I don´t trust other chinese "brands" in this industry), I think that we underestimate the risk of all of those bad mods.

 

[DaveP]

I've come to the point where I trust Mooch's battery evaluations before buying. If Mooch's stamp of approval isn't on it, I don't buy it.

I'm liking the MAH test on my new Zanfare C4 charger, but I have to buy a cell to test it, so Mooch still scores high in my book. He gives us the ratings BEFORE we go out and plunk down the money.

 

[DaveP]

Frankly speaking I believe that most of the accidents that happen so far, are mainly caused by a bad design of the battery mod, rather then because of a bad battery.
Of course, if a battery is damaged and a consumer still use it, that can happen...but at least on 2 well known cases in Germany, the explosions were as a result of purchasing of counterfeitings (Clowns) or bad design of battery mods.
And even if I don´t trust Efest (like I don´t trust other chinese "brands" in this industry), I think that we underestimate the risk of all of those bad mods.

I agree. If you don't short it and you vape under the stated amp rating you'll probably be fine with the list of commonly used cells. Still, I like to see Mooch's evaluation before purchase.

Most all of the battery accidents I've read about involved shorting situations. Damaged mods, careless users, and pocket carry with conductive items are usually contributors.

 

[Rossum]

I don't know anything about the production of batteries, but the technology in a 26650 is, as I'd like to think, the exact same as in a 18650, 20700, or 21700, no? So all they would have to do is create a different sized enclosure and fill in in the same stuff, no?

The Japanese and Korean companies who have the correct recipes, processes, and facilities for making quality 18650-21700 cells don't think the market for 26650s is big enough to bother with, so although they could, they don't.

The smaller, mostly Chinese companies who do make 26650s don't have the latest recipes, nor do they have the expensive facilities required do it properly, so they can't just "fill in the same stuff".

 

[BillW50]

Frankly speaking I believe that most of the accidents that happen so far, are mainly caused by a bad design of the battery mod, rather then because of a bad battery.
Of course, if a battery is damaged and a consumer still use it, that can happen...but at least on 2 well known cases in Germany, the explosions were as a result of purchasing of counterfeitings (Clowns) or bad design of battery mods.
And even if I don´t trust Efest (like I don´t trust other chinese "brands" in this industry), I think that we underestimate the risk of all of those bad mods.

Oh no doubt that some battery explosions are user error, mod, torn wraps, etc. But sometimes it is a manufacturing defect inside the battery itself. And they won't show up until a few charge/discharge cycles. Those to me are the real scary cells.

Btw, I wouldn't ever buy Efest cells either. But most vape shops, that is what they carry. So a lot of vapers end up buying them.

 

[BillW50]

I've come to the point where I trust Mooch's battery evaluations before buying. If Mooch's stamp of approval isn't on it, I don't buy it.

I'm liking the MAH test on my new Zanfare C4 charger, but I have to buy a cell to test it, so Mooch still scores high in my book.

Yes Mooch rating are far better than nothing. He still rates cells higher than I would. And I don't know why Mooch even rates cells like Efest. As maybe the one he tested is a Panasonic rewrap and one you buy is a Sony rewrap. That doesn't help much at all.

 

[Zaryk]

And the lawyer claimed that Efest rewraps are really Sony and Panasonic cells.

Just going to say that while they may be made by said companies, they are not as quality as the ones that that company will sell under their own name. The batteries they sell to rewrapers are the lower graded batteries that didn't make the cut for some reason or another (due to their strict testing standards) so an efest wrapped Sony won't be as nice as a Sony wrapped Sony battery. Also, the rewrapers can change the cell under the wrap without warning, and do so, which makes it hard to say if it was really a Sony or LG under that wrap.

I highly doubt that aspire is going to willing pay your medical bills of you blow one of their batteries up in your face. They are not going to be any different in that aspect as any other company.

 

[Barkuti]

Murata (Sony), LG, Panasonic/Sanyo and Samsung are all renowned worldwide, with great quality standards. Their battery products are intended for responsible professional/industrial use, not for regular philistine Joe/Jane Sixpacks. It is only normal that their managers do not want to see their raw cell production being sold to a market which is imho not yet ready because, among other things:

• Philistine people, who can cry a lot, is buying fake cells with big brand names printed on them. In AliExpress, and based on reviews, seems most buyers clearly don't have a clue in this regard, or do not care. Check this sale, for example: Samsung 25R sale on liitokala Official Store (217753) Yes, there's a review by me there (my real name is Salvador, from Spain, look for CAPS).
• The cells are a raw product with tight performance and cycle life versus cost standards, this matters in an industrial environment where qualified, responsible operators are the norm.
• Consumer protection laws are, well, I'm gonna gloss over because I'm not knowledgeable enough on this. Overprotective? Long warranty periods, full chuck out and replace philosophies… this is costful and does not make any sense with raw industrial cells, unless “properly rewrapped”. I do not know what sort of warranties do rewrappers claim, but if you believe you need some protection buy your cells from the most reputable rewrappers like KeepPower, EnerCig, EnerPower, Shockli and Windyfire. This is just a wise opinion.

Cheers

 

[DaveP]

Yes Mooch rating are far better than nothing. He still rates cells higher than I would. And I don't know why Mooch even rates cells like Efest. As maybe the one he tested is a Panasonic rewrap and one you buy is a Sony rewrap. That doesn't help much at all.

Mooch tests lots of cells in his daily routine, mostly for evaluation of safety and comparing reality to advertised ratings. Some Efest cells are really good, but you don't know what's under the wrap. Mooch reveals that sort of thing to vapers. I respect the heck out of what he's doing. He's a true consumer advocate in my book.

 

[BillW50]

Just going to say that while they may be made by said companies, they are not as quality as the ones that that company will sell under their own name. The batteries they sell to rewrapers are the lower graded batteries that didn't make the cut for some reason or another (due to their strict testing standards) so an efest wrapped Sony won't be as nice as a Sony wrapped Sony battery. Also, the rewrapers can change the cell under the wrap without warning, and do so, which makes it hard to say if it was really a Sony or LG under that wrap.

I always suspected this was the case too.

I highly doubt that aspire is going to willing pay your medical bills of you blow one of their batteries up in your face. They are not going to be any different in that aspect as any other company.

Doesn't really matter. I bet that eBay seller wasn't willing to pay that man's medical expenses either. But the court ruled otherwise. Although you can't sue LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic/Sanyo, etc. since they clearly state not for use in e-cigarettes. That is their legal out.

 

[Zaryk]

Although you can't sue LG, Sony, Samsung, Panasonic/Sanyo, etc. since they clearly state not for use in e-cigarettes. That is their legal out.

Which is perfectly acceptable since they didn't intend or design these cells to be used in such ways, they should be vocal about that and have every right to do so.

People are too sue happy anyway. Everyone seems to be looking for a payday for doing idiotic things (like poor battery handling techniques for example) so I cannot blame a company for protecting their assets that they worked so hard to build.

I remember when I was growing up, if you took a hot coffee shower you were just called an idiot and learned from your actions. You didnt become a millionaire from it. But now I'm just showing my age...