6 week old Smoktech Winder is not holding a charge anymore! Should the B&M replace it???

[RubyRoo]

So about 6 weeks ago, I bought my first eGo setup, Smoktech Winder 650 mAh, a charger, some iClear 16's (1.5 ohm coils) and some juice. It was working great! Was getting about 5 hours of vape time from it. Then last week, it started giving me only about 3 hours, then this week, only about a half an hour.

I took it to the B&M and explained my problem. They said they'd "take a look at it" for me. So I gave them my battery and the charger I was using to test it themselves. I called them today and they said that they were encountering the same problems that I explained, but the owner was out and had not reached a verdict yet. I'm still waiting for him to get back to me.

So, do you guys think they should replace it for me? I know these aren't the highest quality batteries in the world, but I feel this one should have lasted longer than 6 weeks. If I was super rich, I'd just recycle it and get a new one, but $25 is a lot of money to me and I'd prefer it if they'd replace it. Am I being unreasonable here?

 

[Sucker_dad]

No, but if they do not have a warranty posted I wouldn't get my hopes up. Now, having said that, if it were my business and I had a customer come in with a dead product that was that new, I would just replace it to save the customer. I'd rather take a loss on a product instead of a loss of a customer.

 

[MJTP]

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. I'll be the first to say that I believe many vendors think of vaping as a ponzi scheme. If they encounter a bad batch of batteries, some will continue to sell them anyway despite bad reviews and customer reactions. The big sign is really any vendor that refuses returns in a time period less than 14 days. Sure, you can potentially drop batteries and break them, but you can do that to anything in Walmart and they could care less. I worked at Walgreens forever and they readily accept returns on make-up (of all things) that is more expensive than these batteries, simply if the person didn't like the color. Sure, these are big corporations, but Mom & Pop shops should be even better about this to keep customers happy. Without a doubt I believe that a shop has the right to request the battery being sent in to test, but if the test passes, only a scammer would refuse to do an exchange for the customer. It doesn't matter what company makes the battery; the vendor is responsible for what the represent and sell. A vendor could go out and collect a bunch of broken batteries from a garbage bin and that doesn't make the original company responsible. With all the broken products I've received over the years, I do think it's time that consumers get the balls to seek out legal advice about fraud and make sure that greedy vendors are held responsible. Just because these batteries are made in China is no excuse; there's nothing in this country that isn't made in China.

Also, another thing to note is that a shop does not have the right to refuse a return based on these batteries being a "tobacco product." They aren't regulated as such by any law whatsoever that I know of. You could call these portable Ipod Chargers if you wanted to, and with the right adapter, they technically could charge an Ipod as long as you hold the button down, if my knowledge of electricity makes sense. The only type of device that's regulated and considered an e-cig, by law, as far as I'm aware, is pre-filled cartomizers (that have e-liquid in it) and e-liquid that actually has nicotine in it (if it's derived directly from tobacco) and, in some possible situations, products that actually say "e-cig" on the box. As far as I'm aware, shops can sell empty cartomizers and electronic batteries and nicotine-less juice to minors all they want to, but none do for social reasons and just to make lawmakers happy. And if I'm interpreting current laws correctly, a non-nicotine juice in any set-up automatically renders the product as not a tobacco product; for it to be a tobacco product, it has to have an ingredient somehow connected to the actual tobacco plant. Someone could call it an inhaler if they wanted to. Someone could call it perfume and say they were sucking on the device just to get the perfume to unclog. At least, this is all my interpretation, but I'm sure any "good" lawyer would find the same loopholes. And regulating propylene glycol would invite all sorts of lawsuits from people who could very well say that the steam from shellfish cooking in the back kitchen is an attempted murder charge.

Blu knows this for example, and it's why they don't sell simple replacement batteries in stores; they always pack a pack of cartomizers with it so that minors can't buy it. And now that I think about it, I'm not sure I've ever seen a non-nictone pack for sell either...

Basically, if any law does exist that specifically regulates vaping products as a whole as cigarette products, all it'd take is one good lawyer with a motive to sue Walmart for a million bucks, for selling a pot and pan set to their kid, seeing as it "creates water vapor/food flavoring vapor" and thus is a "tobacco product". Then Walmart would sure as all get-out force a lawmaker to change the law.

(Btw, I am someone who believes that a minor should be able to vape non-nicotine juice all they want to, either that, or I'd like to see the ban of all the extremely unhealthy foods and dangerous products like knives that minors can also buy. Not kidding. I'd like to see one or the other. If a minor can't breath in propylene glycol, they shouldn't be able to walk in Dollar Tree and buy a knife to stab some other kid with.)

 

[InTheShade]

I don't think you are being unreasonable, but what I think doesn't matter much.

You'll be very lucky if they decide to replace it, most vaping supplies come with dead on arrival warranty only. If they replace it, stick with them because they are going above and beyond what most other B&M and internet vendors will do for their customers.

If you can reach a compromise and say even get 1/2 value in store credit, that could also be considered a win.

Remember, if they replace it, they will likely have no comeback to the manufacturer anyway, so they'd just be eating the cost of the battery.

I know that shouldn't matter to you as an end consumer, but it might help if you go into the situation with the attitude that it's going to be a negotiation and you need to help them help you.

My opinion only of course.

 

[RubyRoo]

Good advice everyone. I worked retail for a long time at a local gift shop. We had a very strict no-refunds policy unless something was obviously broken. We happily issued exchanges and store credits though because keeping a customer was more important. I just wasn't sure if the same policies were common with e-cig B&Ms. They have no info either on their return policy. I'm just frustrated, and a little let down.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Unreasonable?, slightly.

I've found only 2 B&M's that give a single minutes worth of warranty other than DOA on batteries & consumables.
One of those gives a 14 day the other gives a 30 day return for item of equal or greater price or store credit both with receipt
Neither can recover a penny from their supplier for returned merchandise.
If your B&M does something to help you out you've found an excellent store, IMO.

 

[LovinTheVapor]

So about 6 weeks ago, I bought my first eGo setup, Smoktech Winder 650 mAh, a charger, some iClear 16's (1.5 ohm coils) and some juice. It was working great! Was getting about 5 hours of vape time from it. Then last week, it started giving me only about 3 hours, then this week, only about a half an hour.

I took it to the B&M and explained my problem. They said they'd "take a look at it" for me. So I gave them my battery and the charger I was using to test it themselves. I called them today and they said that they were encountering the same problems that I explained, but the owner was out and had not reached a verdict yet. I'm still waiting for him to get back to me.

So, do you guys think they should replace it for me? I know these aren't the highest quality batteries in the world, but I feel this one should have lasted longer than 6 weeks. If I was super rich, I'd just recycle it and get a new one, but $25 is a lot of money to me and I'd prefer it if they'd replace it. Am I being unreasonable here?

Being it's a Mom & Pop B&M, I think more than 30 days old is stretching it a bit. Walmart can be more liberal with their return policy due to sheer volume, but certainly not a gauge to compare others to.

After a quick Google search, I couldn't find more than one reseller (14 days) who offers anything other than a DOA warranty on the Winder batt. And even SmokTek themselves only offer a 30 day guarantee.

Either way, I hope all goes well and you're back to vaping soon

 

[MJTP]

The thing about "making a penny back" is that these cheapo VV batteries cost, what, probably $2 at most for retailers? Maybe $4? What are they going to do with that? Buy a Pepsi? A pack of gum to be prehaps? Lol they just need to get real. I own a business myself and my motto is "Better for me to loose $5 than a customer loose $50 and file a lawsuit." If the store gets a lot of bad reviews on something, it's just a dumb and greedy business choice to continue to order the (cheapest) product they can find in attempt to make money. Who in the world actually would buy an off brand battery if they were as expensive as everything else? The truth is that they're actually not more expensive, the cost of say, an Ego vs. a Spinner/GoodVape/SucksVape/Whatever is probably about 50 cents, for a retailer. People feel sorry for businesses because the business has one less bubble gum ball they can buy, versus vapers who have, in my estimation, probably thrown over a Million dollars away so far in the past 5 years in broken devices...if not way more than that. The money that all the retailers have thrown out all over the country for returning a battery with no back pay? It probably doesn't reach over $20,000. For the whole country.

Then again, with my experiences, I'm done with any batteries costing less than $50, and I'll probably be done with any of them not made in the USA. They're just horrible. They shouldn't even be sold. I am indeed one of those people who don't want a big mod for appearance reasons, but it gets to a point I'd vape a brick if it worked right. If a retailer gets in the business of selling these horrid batteries, then they need to know what to expect. Truth is though, they get into the business because they think it's a money maker. All of these sloppy websites that didn't cost $25 for a local teenager in computer class to make aren't all being run by simple vape enthusiasts who want to save lives more than worrying about money. They want money at all expense. It's worse than a yardseller selling a broken toaster. They want it gone and they want to rip someone off. I'm not saying "all" or even "many" are that way, but you can simply tell by the tone of some websites which ones are run by, quite frankly, stuck up greedy folks who practically say "If you touch it, no refund."

If not, retailers would test both the voltage output and connectivity of the battery before sending it out. "It came from China." is no excuse. These batteries usually don't even come in a sealed package. Mine came in simple bubble wrap.

*Before anyone argues, guess what? Blu refunds burnt cartomizers! At least they told me they'd do it for me. I didn't go through with it because I was frankly done with them, but you know, that's sad when Blu offers to refund me for pack of broken cartomizers, and a Mom & Pop vape shop acts like it's the armegeddon to refund a 50 cent carto. It just irrates me.

 

[InTheShade]

The thing about "making a penny back" is that these batteries cost, what, probably $2 at most for retailers? What are they going to do with that? Buy a Pepsi? A pack of gum to be prehaps? Lol they just need to get real. I own a business myself and my motto is "Better for me to loose $5 than a customer loose $50 and file a lawsuit." If the store gets a lot of bad reviews on something, it's just a dumb and greedy business choice to continue to order the (cheapest) product they can find in attempt to make money. Who in the world actually would buy an off brand battery if they were as expensive as everything else? The truth is that they're actually not more expensive, the cost of say, an Ego vs. a Spinner/GoodVape/SucksVape/Whatever is probably about 50 cents, for a retailer. People feel sorry for businesses because the business has one less bubble gum ball they can buy, versus vapers who have, in my estimation, probably thrown over a Million dollars away so far in the past 5 years in broken devices...if not way more than that. The money that all the retailers have thrown out all over the country for returning a battery with no back pay? It probably doesn't reach over $20,000. For the whole country.

While I take your point and agree with it somewhat I would not call a winder an 'off-brand' battery. I'd also suggest the retailer is probably paying around 9-10 bucks for it with a MRSP of $24.99 from the manufacturer and not the $2 you mentioned.

The main issue is that it's been 6 weeks since the battery was purchased. I don't know of any brand (off or otherwise) that would accept an RTM from a vendor after this amount of time.

I agree that all things being equal, the business should think more long-term and just give the customer the money back, perhaps as a store credit.

The reality is the manufacturers and wholesalers of most products have the local mom and pops over a barrel. Most local vendors have little choice than to pass the cost of poor manufacturers warranties on to their customers.

 

[cmdebrecht]

I think six weeks is a little long to expect the B&M to accept responsibility.

 

[LovinTheVapor]

The thing about "making a penny back" is that these cheapo VV batteries cost, what, probably $2 at most for retailers? Maybe $4? What are they going to do with that? Buy a Pepsi? A pack of gum to be prehaps? Lol they just need to get real. I own a business myself and my motto is "Better for me to loose $5 than a customer loose $50 and file a lawsuit." If the store gets a lot of bad reviews on something, it's just a dumb and greedy business choice to continue to order the (cheapest) product they can find in attempt to make money. Who in the world actually would buy an off brand battery if they were as expensive as everything else? The truth is that they're actually not more expensive, the cost of say, an Ego vs. a Spinner/GoodVape/SucksVape/Whatever is probably about 50 cents, for a retailer. People feel sorry for businesses because the business has one less bubble gum ball they can buy, versus vapers who have, in my estimation, probably thrown over a Million dollars away so far in the past 5 years in broken devices...if not way more than that. The money that all the retailers have thrown out all over the country for returning a battery with no back pay? It probably doesn't reach over $20,000. For the whole country.

Then again, with my experiences, I'm done with any batteries costing less than $50, and I'll probably be done with any of them not made in the USA. They're just horrible. They shouldn't even be sold. I am indeed one of those people who don't want a big mod for appearance reasons, but it gets to a point I'd vape a brick if it worked right. If a retailer gets in the business of selling these horrid batteries, then they need to know what to expect. Truth is though, they get into the business because they think it's a money maker. All of these sloppy websites that didn't cost $25 for a local teenager in computer class to make aren't all being run by simple vape enthusiasts who want to save lives more than worrying about money. They want money at all expense. It's worse than a yardseller selling a broken toaster. They want it gone and they want to rip someone off. I'm not saying "all" or even "many" are that way, but you can simply tell by the tone of some websites which ones are run by, quite frankly, stuck up greedy folks who practically say "If you touch it, no refund."

If not, retailers would test both the voltage output and connectivity of the battery before sending it out. "It came from China." is no excuse. These batteries usually don't even come in a sealed package. Mine came in simple bubble wrap.

*Before anyone argues, guess what? Blu refunds burnt cartomizers! At least they told me they'd do it for me. I didn't go through with it because I was frankly done with them, but you know, that's sad when Blu offers to refund me for pack of broken cartomizers, and a Mom & Pop vape shop acts like it's the armegeddon to refund a 50 cent carto. It just irrates me.

1) Uhhh NO ONE is paying $2-$4 wholesale for SmokTek Winder VV batts
2) All China vaping batts are crap??? Really???
3) Since you're a "business owner", I guess you run a non-profit...right?

Whew, good luck with that mind set

 

[Ref Minor]

I get a 6 month warranty on cheap Chinese Ego clones from FastTech in China, if they can do that, I fail to see why a lifespan of 45 days is considered acceptable for a product like a battery, a clearo maybe I can see with a short warranty period.

 

[CommaHolly]

it probably should have lasted more than six weeks,,,,,,but some of it depends on how often you charged the thing,,,,,

I know that I vape a lot,,,,and I generally have 2 batteries I'm going back and forth between,,,,,,,and I get generally 3 months out of an ego type battery before it fails (outright dies or holds far less of a charge),,,,,,,

but I'm charging mine 2 to 3 times a day,,,,,,,and ego type batteries generally only have about 300 charges,,,,,,,

as to whether they will eat it or not,,,,,,probably not. Volt guarantees theirs for 90 days,,,,,,,one reason I loved them (although they use 808 rather than 510 connection which is a pain),,,,,,,,,and FT has even longer, so they say,,,,,,,,but most places don't,,,,,,,,

it's one reason you may eventually want to get a mod with replaceable batteries,,,,,much cheaper in the long run.

 

[vjc0628]

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. I'll be the first to say that I believe many vendors think of vaping as a ponzi scheme. If they encounter a bad batch of batteries, some will continue to sell them anyway despite bad reviews and customer reactions. The big sign is really any vendor that refuses returns in a time period less than 14 days

1st the OP is at 6 weeks
2nd most have a doa return policy maybe a few have a up to a 30 days

nobody would except a return on those in 6 weeks

unfortunately but they are basically disposable and for that reason I got into mods and eventually settled on a provari
ego types are cheep but a mod should last longer

 

[RubyRoo]

I agree that the business owner will be out, let's say, 12 bucks. This is assuming their markup is 100% which is standard retail markup. So if they don't replace it, I will be out $25 and they will be out $$$ HUNDREDS because they will lose my business.

As a small business owner myself (my husband and brother-in-law run it) we work very hard to bend over backwards for our customers. If something is broken or needs to be fixed or repaired, even if it was a manufacturing flaw, we take care of it. This is because repeat customers are the core of a small business's revenue.

I know these are "cheap Chinese batteries" but shouldn't you stand behind your product anyway? Also, there was no return policy EVER stated to me or posted anywhere in the store, so I feel like if it was 30 days, they should have told me that when I bought it.

Well, off to face the music. I'll let you guys know what happens.

 

[Fulgurant]

I get a 6 month warranty on cheap Chinese Ego clones from FastTech in China, if they can do that, I fail to see why a lifespan of 45 days is considered acceptable for a product like a battery, a clearo maybe I can see with a short warranty period.

Yeah, usually the warranty for these items is significantly longer than the return period.

So if the B&M won't replace your battery, maybe you could check with the manufacturer?

 

[AncientWorld]

Don't give too much credit to long warranties from another country. If I had a car manufacturer on the moon I would give you a lifetime warranty on a vehicle I sold you and be happy to give you a new one when yours broke down. But first I would want you to send the vehicle back to the moon so that I could see that it was really the one that I sold you that is broken and verify that it no longer is in working condition. How many people are going to pay the $2 million dollar shipping to return their $20,000 car to me? I could even do two for one and not get any takers. It's the same with china. Buy 20 items from them you get a good shipping rate. Then you get the package and 5 of them don't work. It isn't worth the shipping expense to mail the 5 items back to them as their shipping costs the same as the value as the items do. Unless you are selling enough to have 100 defective items to send back at once you wont make any money back and even then only a small fraction of it after paying for shipping. 30 days is more than reasonable for them to take your product back. It probably paid for itself anyway by that time if it is only a $25 battery and small companies already have to eat the costs of the ones that don't work at all. To ask a small shop to eat the cost of ones that work for a month and a half that are known to be a budget type is like asking them to go out of business or make the prices 25% higher for everyone. Personally though I would probably make you happy in some way that got you your money back over time without me losing money either. maybe giving you discounts on future purchases or something. But to each their own. If a company is giving you refunds like that though be very appreciative and treat them like a friend indeed.

 

[RubyRoo]

UPDATE!!! Well, the B&M (in Boulder, CO) where I originally bought the battery did not return my calls, did not return my message, and the owner was not there when I went back in this afternoon. So I just retrieved the dead battery and my charger, and left. I was so bummed out that he can't run his business well enough to even call me back.

So, I went to a different B&M in Louisville, CO, the Steam Spot, and they were FABULOUS!!! I told the owner what happened at the other store (just venting really) and he was like, that is so awful, I'll replace it for you. He GAVE me a brand new battery, just GAVE it to me. Now that's what I call customer service! To thank him I bought an iTaste VV 3, some juice and a few drip tips, as well as a cup of delicious organic Oolong tea.

They really made my day and reinforced my 100% support of local vape shops. If you are in the Boulder County area, PLEASE go to Steam Spot in Louisville. They have everything from starter kits to high-end boutique mech mods. Great juice selection too. Hell, if you live in Colorado or Wyoming or wherever, please visit the Steam Spot!

 

[grandmato5]

One should always find out what a vendors return policy is before making any purchases. Once their return policy is known, then one can make a decision if the vendors policy is one they can live with if something goes wrong with what they purchased or know they need to purchase from another vendor.