EU 8th Ocotober 2013 : EU rejected ecigs as medecine !

[Leio]

This morning European parlement vote the tobacco Product Directive wich included ecigarettes.

Amendement 71 : ecigs=medicinal product -> REJECTED (386 vs 283 votes)
Amendement 170 (Ries) : if <30mg/ml then ecig=curent consumeur product -> ADOPTED

And :
No restrictions on flavors
Quality control and advertising restrictions

 

[xxtigerxeyesxx]

do you have a link to post so i can read it?

 

[low_tar_neil]

Today the good guys won

 

[xxtigerxeyesxx]

http://www.economist.com/news/leade...posals-control-electronic-cigarettes-strictly

 

[BarryNorton]

Why 71?

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides...E-513.109&format=PDF&language=EN&secondRef=02

Says this changes:

"The prohibition of
the sale of oral tobacco should be
maintained in order to prevent the
introduction to the internal market of a
product that is addictive, has adverse
health effects and is attractive to young
people."

to:

"Upholds the ban on
tobacco products for oral use, however,
such a ban should not affect historically
traditional tobacco products for oral use,
which may be allowed by individual
Member States."

 

[remnant]

This calls for a

 

[Rickajho]

Ok, I'm confused by the quotations being put up here. "Not a medication" - good thing. But the "oral tobacco" rulings... this is a good thing for e-cigs? Can someone from the other side of the pond parse this out? It sounds good. (Please be good.)

 

[BarryNorton]

That was my confusion over which 'amendment 71' meant.

The one meant replaced Article 18 (which some restrictions on what could be regarded as non-medical) with the blanket:

"1. Nicotine-containing products may only be placed on the market if they are authorised pursuant to Directive 2001/83/EC, taking into account the well-established use of nicotine."

Instead we have a quite generous non-medical exemption at <30mg (courtesy of Amendment 170 on Article 18).

Note the question remains whether nicotine solution for DIY mixing will still be allowed.

 

[Anjaffm]

YES! YES! YESSSS!!!!!!
We European vapers were quite worried about the EU threatening to regulate e-cigs as medicines -and thus to practically ban them from the market.
E-cigs were "hidden away" in some side note to that tobacco directive proposal, and only a lot of e-mails and publicity from vapers in Europe made the Members of European Parliament aware exactly what e-cigs are and exactly what they do. One petition, for example, reached 27,000 signatures - and was presented to a lady at the EU in a big huge folder.

The vote was now that e-cigs will NOT be regulated as medicines.
Which makes us European vapers very happy, as a regulation as medicines would have resulted in a de facto ban of the vaping products, while leaving tobacco cigarettes freely available.

The actual voting took place at 12:00 noon CET today - about 2 hours ago.
I know there will be summaries - also in English - available soon. It may be useful to watch Clive Bates' page: The counterfactual

 

[gayhalo]

That was my confusion over which 'amendment 71' meant.

The one meant replaced Article 18 (which some restrictions on what could be regarded as non-medical) with the blanket:

"1. Nicotine-containing products may only be placed on the market if they are authorised pursuant to Directive 2001/83/EC, taking into account the well-established use of nicotine."

Instead we have a quite generous non-medical exemption at <30mg (courtesy of Amendment 170 on Article 18).

Note the question remains whether nicotine solution for DIY mixing will still be allowed.

DIY mixing may change but if I can get 50pg 50vg unflavoured 30mg juice I can make most things I want. I am vaping 12mg at the moment.

 

[gayhalo]

Ok, I'm confused by the quotations being put up here. "Not a medication" - good thing. But the "oral tobacco" rulings... this is a good thing for e-cigs? Can someone from the other side of the pond parse this out? It sounds good. (Please be good.)

I have not read it myself but the oral tobacco thing is snus which is banned in all EU countries except Sweden. So this looks like no change on snus. It is a shame as Sweden has the lowest percentage of tobacco smokers and the lowest smoking related disease rate in EU.

 

[Rickajho]

DIY mixing may change but if I can get 50pg 50vg unflavoured 30mg juice I can make most things I want. I am vaping 12mg at the moment.

Or perhaps not. This is where our beloved FDA trips all over itself as well, because the definition of "e-cig" is more concept than a standardized execution. If you think about it, just what defines "e-cigarette" anyway? It's certainly not a 120 ml bottle of 50 mg nic base with no battery or atomizer attached. If you go by "if <30mg/ml then ecig=curent consumeur product -> ADOPTED" - well, there's that word "ecig" in there. But a bottle of just unflavored nic is not an ecig. So what will they do with that? This is the kind of stuff that makes their heads spin 'round until they explode. Here's hoping for the best on that one too!

 

[sebt]

Press release is here: Tobacco: larger warnings, flavours banned, e-cigarettes regulated

There are links to the adopted text and a video of the debate, but I haven't followed them yet to see if they're up yet.

71 rejected and 170 adopted is good news! It means that at least regulation-as-medicines has been rejected.

One thing I picked up from Clive Bates' excellent comments on the amendments is that even an imperfect result in this vote is a good thing. I think the phrase he used was "it's like gaining ground in a war - not winning yet, but gaining ground". The problem, as I see it, is that the idiotic false dichotomy "medicines regulation vs. no regulation" was allowed to frame the debate, because that's what the Commission came up within the original TPD amendment.

That may change now, because medicines regulation has been rejected. This opens up the debate to more sensible discussion.

So perhaps even the 30mg/ml limit (which I think is completely arbitrary) and the restrictions on advertising and distance-sales could be up for grabs. I'll defer to people who follow the EParl closer than I do (e.g. Clive Bates) on this. The main point is that the text as now amended is not the final text. So, on the negative side, those hoping for even stricter regulation are not going to stop campaigning and using what influence they have either.

 

[AgentAnia]

Here's what Dr. Farsalinos has to say: A triumph for vapers, smokers and (most importantly) common sense: the European Parliament rejected the medicinal regulation for e-cigarettes

 

[Scootaloo]

Great news : group hug everyone

 

[YKruss]

I hope FDA's upcoming e-cig regulations will be less damaging to vapors in light of this ruling.

 

[BarryNorton]

Press release is here: Tobacco: larger warnings, flavours banned, e-cigarettes regulated

Which also confirms 3 years until anything affects e-cigarettes, which is great.

 

[modernians]

Great news for electronic cigarette smokers in Europe, but what now? SmokeTastic put it simply: in their blog The EU Parliament Vote Saves The E Cigarette

 

[tommy2bad]

I think maybe the FDA were waiting to see how the cards would fall in the EU before doing anything. They were in a position where they were caught with tobacco regs and if the EU went for medicines they would have to regulate as strictly as possible to keep the trade areas as similar as possible. Imagine a product labeled as medicine being imported from the EU and being refused at customs because it was a banned tobacco produce?
Now the EU have gone for what is in all but name tobacco regs the FDA can implement similar regs to existing tobacco products.
How easily ecigs will fit is another matter, I think in the US theirs a procedure for new tobacco products that would hamper ecigs. Perhaps the FDA can now adopt the EU position and create a new category; Nicotine containing products.
This matters to us in the EU now more than ever as we will be dependent on the US or China for nic base higher than 30mg.

 

[Scootaloo]

Which also confirms 3 years until anything affects e-cigarettes, which is great.

What's happening in 3 years?