A discussion surronding the BE debacle...

[Vchick]

Kurt

I don't know if this has been touched on or not already, but wanted to ask for those that may be testing at home;

Once tested, how should the liquids with the added chemicals be disposed of safely?

Thanks!

 

[AzPlumber]

Pour it down the drain with a little running water. These chemicals will not harm yours or the city plumbing system.

 

[Sense Field]

Other than the 272 mg I still have...not using that for anything other than evidence, if the need arises.

Who sent you the nic that was 272mg? You said that you invited people to send you their nic for testing...and they did...so who had that one and did they use it to make any mixtures?

Did they notice the color difference or the smell?

 

[Switched]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...we-have-problem-nic-titration-results-27.html

 

[GoodDog]

It all started with this thread. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/224197-boxelder-nic-feels-wayyyy-too-strong.html

 

[Kurt]

sense Field" data-source="post: 4641816" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Who sent you the nic that was 272mg? You said that you invited people to send you their nic for testing...and they did...so who had that one and did they use it to make any mixtures?

Did they notice the color difference or the smell?

The person that sent it also tested it with the kit and got qualitatively similar results. Yes, they noted both of those things. I don't know if they made a juice from it, but they did contact BE because of their test results. I'm not going to say who it was, but the info is in the Houston thread. Another person got some of this same liquid from BE, and also tested it at 260 mg, if I recall correctly.

Why do you ask?

As for titration liquids, Switched is correct, down the drain with lots of water. If, however, you get a very very strong smelling amber liquid, I would not do anything with it. As always, wear gloves if you don't know the nic level, and make sure your eyes and arms are protected too.

 

[RedZone]

THIS consumer wants Quality Control....if I buy 24mg. juice from a vendor, it should be 24 mg. not 20% highter (not 28.8 mg) that is not too much to expect. IMO

Retird, you missed the point completely. Guess you are a "Hamburger B" Guy.. If kit strips are showing your ordered 24MG NIC juice coming in at 20MG, you aren't going to sweat it, as flavoring, etc. to the NIC are going to skew the testing, showing lower than the actual strength of the NIC. (There did I word it better for ya now?)

 

[Skeeter T]

THIS consumer wants Quality Control....if I buy 24mg. juice from a vendor, it should be 24 mg. not 20% highter (not 28.8 mg) that is not too much to expect. IMO

Everything manufactured in this world is rarely 100% perfect. Everything has a manufacturing tolerance. A tolerance of Plus or Minus (P/M) 20% on 24mg of juice, may be excessive, but it may not be for 500mg. This is one of the QC issues the industry needs to address.

Manufacturing juice (thinning, cutting) to a nic tolerance of P/M 0.1mg/ml would probably triple the cost. It isn't cost effective or practical. Normally manufacturing applies a tighter tolerance to smaller quantities and a looser tolerance to larger quantities. For instance a tolerance for nic with 4 thru 24mg may be P/M 2mg and for nic with 25 thru 100mg may be P/M 5mg.

I believe the rule for accuracy of inspection instruments is they should be able to measure 10 times better than the tolerance. For instance, if measuring the nic content of juice with a P/M tolerance of whole numbers (such as 1 thru 9), then an instrument that can accurately measure to P/M 0.1mg should be used. This is another QC issue the industry needs to address.

 

[Switched]

I want to play devil's advocate for a second here. There is no doubt QA and QC is needed in this industry. OTOH hand lets not be ridiculous about it, especially not with "home testing kits" with all the variables they bring especially with "flavoured" liquids.

A large margin of error = a large margin of error. OTOH if the liquid tested in home varies by a few mg either way, that is all that suffice. The onslaught of theses threads proved there were large discrepancies and lack of QC & QA. e.g I bought 60mg and it tested at 42mg, or 100mg that tested at 272mg. I believe these figures as we move on will be things of the past.

In closing, I admire folks seeking safe liquid to vape. OTOH many vapers go overboard with some of their concerns when they never gave a rats behind what cigarettes contained. Vaping is a safer alternative than smoking no holes barred. Is it safe? IMO NO, just safer.

We have been provided a tool to quit smoking while many other methods have failed. The object is to free yourself of the addiction, not continue to be an addict to nicotine under a new form - because if we knew then what we know now, we would have never start smoking in the first place and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[carpedebass]

Kurt

I don't know if this has been touched on or not already, but wanted to ask for those that may be testing at home;

Once tested, how should the liquids with the added chemicals be disposed of safely?

Thanks!

VChick, I have seen a LOT of folks asking this very question...and it's a great question!! Please allow me to put this into perspective. By the time your small sample of liquid gets to the treatment plant, it will be so diluted, it likely wouldn't even show up in any kind of analysis, much less be a pass through interference or a treatment issue in any way. Just as AzPlumber said, flush with some tap water, and go on about your business.

You would have to pour hundreds of gallons of it in the system to do any noticeable damage to the treatment system at all. I know this because the first lab job I ever had was at a wastewater treatment facility. Before they would allow me to work in the lab, I had to become a certified plant operator.

 

[retird]

and you missed my point.....Quality Control is needed to protect the vaping community and the "supply chain" companies..

Retird, you missed the point completely. Guess you are a "Hamburger B" Guy.. If kit strips are showing your ordered 24MG NIC juice coming in at 20MG, you aren't going to sweat it, as flavoring, etc. to the NIC are going to skew the testing, showing lower than the actual strength of the NIC. (There did I word it better for ya now?)

 

[RedZone]

and you missed my point.....Quality Control is needed to protect the vaping community and the "supply chain" companies..

I think I got Kurt's point "Quite Clear" on the need to protect "The Community"..
I got lost in the "Fluff Talk" about consumers not getting accurate readings why their 24MG NIC was testing at 20MG, comparative to the "Real" Danger, that their 24mg NIC was actually 60mg NIC.

I guess I could start making Okie jokes at this point, but that would be digressing. Boomer!

 

[swedishfish]

...In closing, I admire folks seeking safe liquid to vape. OTOH many vapers go overboard with some of their concerns when they never gave a rats behind what cigarettes contained. Vaping is a safer alternative than smoking no holes barred. Is it safe? IMO NO, just safer...

I agree to some extent. It sort of gets on my last nerve a bit when the people that have been smoking cigarettes go on and on about an ingredient, or wonder if the people that make the juice wear hairnets. I'm not that way, but it is there right to be that if they're willing to pay for that. Whatever floats your boat.

But. When I purchase something I expect it to be exactly what it is advertised to be. If it's 24 mg nicotine at 80/20, that's what I expect it to be. This isn't charity. They aren't doing me a huge favor because it's better than cigarettes. You want to run a business, run it. But run it correctly or we're all going to be out of the vaping game.

 

[swedishfish]

I think I got Kurt's point "Quite Clear" on the need to protect "The Community"..
I got lost in the "Fluff Talk" about consumers not getting accurate readings why their 24MG NIC was testing at 20MG, comparative to the "Real" Danger, that their 24mg NIC was actually 60mg NIC.

I guess I could start making Okie jokes at this point, but that would be digressing. Boomer!

I don't know but I would sort of expect the supplier to account for the flavoring when they make the juice. Are you just talking about DIY or purchase of premade juice?

 

[Switched]

*SNIP
But. When I purchase something I expect it to be exactly what it is advertised to be. If it's 24 mg nicotine at 80/20, that's what I expect it to be. This isn't charity. They aren't doing me a huge favor because it's better than cigarettes. You want to run a business, run it. But run it correctly or we're all going to be out of the vaping game.

Yup! couldn't agree more. Vendors had it good with their inflated profit margins, now it is time to look after the community in more ways than one. Time to pay the fiddler

 

[RedZone]

I don't know but I would sort of expect the supplier to account for the flavoring when they make the juice. Are you just talking about DIY or purchase of premade juice?

SwedishFish, I'm referring to the home NIC test kit's being skewed because of the flavoring/additives.. In 100% agreement, if a vendor takes an order for 24mg NIC juice, it should be 24, not 16 and definitely NOT 54mg!

Also agree on some of the questions that come up about juice production, when consumers ingested hundred's of unknown chemicals in analogs. But, everyone is entitled to opinions, and though I am trying some new juice vendors, I have traditionally stuck w/ the couple I have trusted over the years... (The new one's I am trying are based on reviews from experienced people at ECF)..

 

[retird]

To me this whole QC discussion really boils down to two questions. One question to the general vaping community and one question for the "supply chain" companies.

To the vaping community:
Are you provided with any information from the "supply chain" that the nic level of your purchase is exactly as advertised?

To the "supply chain" companies:
What Quality Controls are in place to guarantee the nic levels of the product you produce, mix, or otherwise sell to the vaping community?

Edit: for those interested, look at what the UK has in place:

http://www.ecita.org.uk/

 

[CaminoDiablo]

As I see it, if every one that has ever touched the nicotine would add their little "PASS" label just as you see with clothes then when you get it you could check it yourself. If something is wrong then couldn't you go back to the person that passed it and have a legitimate complaint against the company?

 

[RedZone]

As I see it, if every one that has ever touched the nicotine would add their little "PASS" label just as you see with clothes then when you get it you could check it yourself. If something is wrong then couldn't you go back to the person that passed it and have a legitimate complaint against the company?

And what about all those "Pass" stickers on kid's toys manufactured in China, that contained lead paint?

 

[Switched]

And what about all those "Pass" stickers on kid's toys manufactured in China, that contained lead paint?

Valid points. Do you mind sharing with us yous view = Pass sticker (from cradle to grave)