A realistic view amid the panic

[Jdurand]

I'll admit, I'm just as guilty as the next person before I start. I've bought mods and tanks "just in case" and stored nic, probably way too much to use before it goes bad. It's just part of the mentality that can't be avoided right now.

So, where am I going with this?

I've contemplated what exactly is happening here. Much of what the FDA is doing is pretty much never going to fly in its entirety. Especially the gear part. Remove the nic and there is absolutely nothing there to regulate. Here is how I see it panning out as a huge back fire on the Government, BT, BP and the FDA.

The work arounds that have come up just on this forum in the LAST FEW DAYS could cripple the efforts of the FDA, and those are just the underhanded ones. What if a vape shop sold no nic and labeled their products as not to be used with nicotine, kind of like other shops listing their products as to be used only with tobacco products, ya right. Now the "other" shop does not sell the "intended" product but can still legally sell their wares, knowing full well what they will be used for. Why will a vape shop be any different, we will just have to source our own nic like the others have source their own, well, "other".

The war on drugs has been going on since the Reagan era. Yet shops sell drug paraphanallia every day....you think they can shut down vape gear sans nicotine, no way can it be legally done.

Are things going to be exactly the same, no, most likely not. Are times going to get to the point where we all need to just go back to smoking or quit altogether without choice? No, I don't see that either. Remember, you can still but smokes, tax free, in many places through legal loopholes. Guess what, nic is gonna be the same, there will also be the black or gray market for nic.

If you want to get all upset about a government over stepping its bounds, go for it. If you think our rights are being intruded upon, you're right. If you think the days of having a choice to vape or not is coming to a close, well, then you may be over reacting.

 

[bman1977]

I'll admit, I'm just as guilty as the next person before I start. I've bought mods and tanks "just in case" and stored nic, probably way too much to use before it goes bad. It's just part of the mentality that can't be avoided right now.

So, where am I going with this?

I've contemplated what exactly is happening here. Much of what the FDA is doing is pretty much never going to fly in its entirety. Especially the gear part. Remove the nic and there is absolutely nothing there to regulate. Here is how I see it panning out as a huge back fire on the Government, BT, BP and the FDA.

The work arounds that have come up just on this forum in the LAST FEW DAYS could cripple the efforts of the FDA, and those are just the underhanded ones. What if a vape shop sold no nic and labeled their products as not to be used with nicotine, kind of like other shops listing their products as to be used only with tobacco products, ya right. Now the "other" shop does not sell the "intended" product but can still legally sell their wares, knowing full well what they will be used for. Why will a vape shop be any different, we will just have to source our own nic like the others have source their own, well, "other".

The war on drugs has been going on since the Reagan era. Yet shops sell drug paraphanallia every day....you think they can shut down vape gear sans nicotine, no way can it be legally done.

Are things going to be exactly the same, no, most likely not. Are times going to get to the point where we all need to just go back to smoking or quit altogether without choice? No, I don't see that either. Remember, you can still but smokes, tax free, in many places through legal loopholes. Guess what, nic is gonna be the same, there will also be the black or gray market for nic.

If you want to get all upset about a government over stepping its bounds, go for it. If you think our rights are being intruded upon, you're right. If you think the days of having a choice to vape or not is coming to a close, well, then you may be over reacting.

Great post. I've been thinking the same thing. People really are overreacting. It's not the end of the world. Life will go on. And vaping will go on in one form or another.

 

[Jdurand]

Great post. I've been thinking the same thing. People really are overreacting. It's not the end of the world. Life will go on. And vaping will go on in one form or another.

Thanks, in many ways I posted this just to get my head back on straight. I want to stop worrying and now go back to helping people get off smokes successfully again, help people get their gear working to its full potential and just generally enjoy vaping again.....enough of the doom and gloom. Let's sit back and watch this fiasco play out right into our very hands. I have faith the American people won't let this fly.

I'm not saying don't be active, or let your voice be heard, just to relax a little while you're doing it.

 

[evan le'garde]

I'll admit, I'm just as guilty as the next person before I start. I've bought mods and tanks "just in case" and stored nic, probably way too much to use before it goes bad. It's just part of the mentality that can't be avoided right now.

So, where am I going with this?

I've contemplated what exactly is happening here. Much of what the FDA is doing is pretty much never going to fly in its entirety. Especially the gear part. Remove the nic and there is absolutely nothing there to regulate. Here is how I see it panning out as a huge back fire on the Government, BT, BP and the FDA.

The work arounds that have come up just on this forum in the LAST FEW DAYS could cripple the efforts of the FDA, and those are just the underhanded ones. What if a vape shop sold no nic and labeled their products as not to be used with nicotine, kind of like other shops listing their products as to be used only with tobacco products, ya right. Now the "other" shop does not sell the "intended" product but can still legally sell their wares, knowing full well what they will be used for. Why will a vape shop be any different, we will just have to source our own nic like the others have source their own, well, "other".

The war on drugs has been going on since the Reagan era. Yet shops sell drug paraphanallia every day....you think they can shut down vape gear sans nicotine, no way can it be legally done.

Are things going to be exactly the same, no, most likely not. Are times going to get to the point where we all need to just go back to smoking or quit altogether without choice? No, I don't see that either. Remember, you can still but smokes, tax free, in many places through legal loopholes. Guess what, nic is gonna be the same, there will also be the black or gray market for nic.

If you want to get all upset about a government over stepping its bounds, go for it. If you think our rights are being intruded upon, you're right. If you think the days of having a choice to vape or not is coming to a close, well, then you may be over reacting.

There are more smalltime vendors posting on this site than you might realise. There's loads of them. They are the ones getting "everyone else" pumped up over these regulations. And they are the ones who are going to go out of business. And it's those businesses that the government are targeting because they sell items like VG/PG, cotton pads etc at the most extortionate rates you simply wouldn't believe. And you'd only realise that if you were to shop around for these items at online business's who aren't vaping vendors. Then you know exactly what i'm talking about.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Agreed. Vaping will go on but the picture for that is unknown and who's pockets will get lined is the issue. I DIY but my current favorite juice I buy. I can't see that not being mired by the FDA. Will I be able to get it? Possibly? Will I spend the additional money that gets added on? No way (unless they sell it with no nic option at the same price I am paying today). I'm more concerned with new people looking for cig alternatives (and those with no interest at all in DIYing, which is a big crowd. Think of it like coffee. I can make an espresso mocha at home but I still go to Starbucks to buy it) and the FDA making anything other than big pharma or tobacco's choices unaffordable. That's really the end game. Not health concerns.

 

[bnrkwest]

I think the unknowns are what drives the panic. Just be prepared for the worst now, then if it is better than we thought no problemo! I feel better stocked up than I would with a wait and see attitude. That's just how I look at it. I love vaping and I am not giving it up!

 

[sofarsogood]

The Federal Drug Administration has the authority to do literally anything, any time, for any reason with vaping. They could make a compounding rule. All the ingredients for liquid are legal to possess but if you combine them for the purpose of making e liquid, even for personal use, you are breaking the law. World wide tobacco sales are on the order of $800 billion a year. Most of that goes for taxes. The government tobacco business is the largest drug cartel in the history of civilization. They aren't going to let their business go down easily. So let's make our stockpiles. May be it will be legal to use them, may be not.

 

[Bob Chill]

My biggest concern for the immediate future is online ordering and shipping. Age verification is a hurdle. It also makes receiving a package a bit of a pain because it can't just be dropped off on the doorstep.

I like to order most of my hardware from FT. I have valid concerns that it could become difficult for overseas shipping. I also have valid concerns that processing electronic payments may be even more difficult than it is now in the near future.

The 90 day rule requires B&M's to register as a manufacturer. If by chance B&Ms suddenly have a barrier to making juice then they will start closing up well before the 2 year mark. That's the profit center.

On the other hand, if online ordering becomes difficult then B&Ms will sell a lot more hardware. But the selection will be much smaller and cost much higher than many of us are used to.

One thing is certain, our vape world will look different come August. How much different and how it all shakes out is tough to figure out.

 

[zoiDman]

...

If you want to get all upset about a government over stepping its bounds, go for it. If you think our rights are being intruded upon, you're right. If you think the days of having a choice to vape or not is coming to a close, well, then you may be over reacting.

Maybe some just Disagree with the Definition of the word "Choice" that some people are using?

 

[crxess]

A Realist does not panic at the possibility of change.
A Realist Plans for the probability of Change.

I Vote
I Vape

 

[oplholik]

I stock up because I'd rather be safe than sorry. I have been stocking up slowly for about 3 years now, so I already have plenty, except for a little more nic. So no panic here. I already have mods, and toppers that will last me for years, and spare parts.

 

[navigator2011]

I'm just going to watch which way the wind blows in court.

 

[Jdurand]

I don't worry much about the gear. if I say my products are meant to be used with out nicotine, then how can you regulate it? My example of all the local head shops selling pipes for you know what, but not selling you know what, is very key here. We can't be regulated more than something truly illegal.

There is no way this is going to pan out the way the government intends.

 

[zoiDman]

I don't worry much about the gear. if I say my products are meant to be used with out nicotine, then how can you regulate it? ...

Yeah... It's not like the FDA Could/Would write in Specific Wording for "Intended Use" into the "Deeming" Rule Set.

 

[Jdurand]

Define "intended use".

 

[oplholik]

I guess for batteries and such you might have to start ordering from someplace other than an e-cig vendor, such as Orbtronics, ect, ect.

 

[zoiDman]

Define "intended use".

Doesn't really matter how I define "Intended Use". Or anyone Else for that matter.

What Matters is How the FDA defines "Intended Use". And to what level the Courts May or May Not agree with the FDA's ability to Restrict/Regulate based on Intended Use.

 

[Jdurand]

I think if it was legal for them to assume that they can predict the future and prove what you will use an item for, head shops would have closed years ago.....yet.

I only say this because the precedence has been set.

Remember, the FDA can say whatever they want, if there is no legal precedence to enforce it they are SOL.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Remember, the FDA can say whatever they want, if there is no legal precedence to enforce it they are SOL.

True they can say what they want. But they don't Need a Precedence in this case. These are New Regulations.

Also remember that the FDA has had 5 Years to work on this with the Full Support of the Justice Department. I think they Kinda learned some Lessons from the Forays back in 2009.

So I'm just not Sure I would put 100% Faith in Skirting e-Cigarette Regulations on the premise that Sellers will just say that it is for Non-Nicotine use.

Doing that would be what Many would consider to Not be a Realistic View.

 

[Two_Bears]

Great post. I've been thinking the same thing. People really are overreacting. It's not the end of the world. Life will go on. And vaping will go on in one form or another.

There is a possubility you and OP are correct.

"BUT WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG?" I am NOT willing to take that chance.

I see stockpiling a win win situation.

I use the stuff i win, and saved money.

If i decided to stop vaping, i have unopened flavors to sell. And wire to sell. Give them a deal and still make money over what i paid. A win.

In reality the only way i can lose is by not prepare and the legislators decide to not fight tge FDA's overeach of authority.