ADDICTS, and nicotine...

[cobaltblue]

I really don't LIKE the word addiction, I really prefer dependent. It's NOT as ugly of a concept. Diabetics who take insulin are dependent on it, just like I am on other meds I take because I would have problems if I went without them. I think addiction has been dragged through the dirt and been tarnished as a word for use with things like coffee, and nicotine by the association it's got with illicit drug use which gets real ugly too. (think of shooting up and tell me it's NOT an ugly 'addiction') I remember in the 80's it was pretty much restricted to being associated with illicit drug use, alcohol and cigarettes in general, not just the nicotine in them. Interesting thread.

Thank you Pamster for saying what I was trying to relate, only you said it Far better! I really believe that the future of the PV rests on how we (and society) view addictions. Particulary nic.

I remember when they pushed nic away from the morning cup of coffee too...and slid it right next to illicit drug use.

If the FDA and BP get their way and the nic we use for our PVs becomes illegal to buy other than by prescription, then the bridge will forever have been crossed.

You're all making great points. Thanks!

 

[THE]

Thank you Pamster for saying what I was trying to relate, only you said it Far better! I really believe that the future of the PV rests on how we (and society) view addictions. Particulary nic.

I remember when they pushed nic away from the morning cup of coffee too...and slid it right next to illicit drug use.

If the FDA and BP get their way and the nic we use for our PVs becomes illegal to buy other than by prescription, then the bridge will forever have been crossed.

You're all making great points. Thanks!

I still don't see how they can ban nicotine and still allow cigarette sales.. I think those .......s have themselves in a bit of a corner, on this one... I know that they will just do some illegal rapey politics to try and screw us out of vaping, some how, but they'll at least be clearly 100% in the wrong. If that even matters any more!!

 

[irwink]

I still don't see how they can ban nicotine and still allow cigarette sales.. I think those .......s have themselves in a bit of a corner, on this one... I know that they will just do some illegal rapey politics to try and screw us out of vaping, some how, but they'll at least be clearly 100% in the wrong. If that even matters any more!!

When has being 100% wrong ever stopped the US goverment?

 

[Skruf]

How do you spell denial? Of course it's addictive, and in a way that caffeine or sugar or chocolate isn't. Think in terms of addictive like ......., methamphetamine, morphine. Yep, addictive like that.

 

[THE]

When has being 100% wrong ever stopped the US goverment?

Absolutely agreed
them!!

 

[KILLERkpd]

Addictions...
Caffeine
Nicotine
Work
Saving money
Life
Fun
Wiping my .... when needed
Washing my hands before leaving a public bathroom


Yeah, addictions. Habits. Same thing in my book.

 

[THE]

Addictions...
Caffeine
Nicotine
Work
Saving money
Life
Fun
Wiping my .... when needed
Washing my hands before leaving a public bathroom


Yeah, addictions. Habits. Same thing in my book.

There's no way addictions and habits are the same thing

My nicotine addiction holds my survival instinct hostage if I don't feed it..

 

[KILLERkpd]

There's no way addictions and habits are the same thing

My nicotine addiction holds my survival instinct hostage if I don't feed it..

This is my thought process. I need to do both, while I agree that not feeding an addiction results in a more severe result as not feeding into a habit, I still have an overwhelming desire to do both.

Yeah, I know I'm f'd in the head.

 

[THE]

This is my thought process. I need to do both, while I agree that not feeding an addiction results in a more severe result as not feeding into a habit, I still have an overwhelming desire to do both.

Yeah, I know I'm f'd in the head.

Well.. don't worry .... I'm not always the most .. stable .. person

 

[cobaltblue]

How do you spell denial? Of course it's addictive, and in a way that caffeine or sugar or chocolate isn't. Think in terms of addictive like ......., methamphetamine, morphine. Yep, addictive like that.

I'm not sure you're getting my point. Maybe this will help...

I'd rather be in the passenger seat of a nic "addict", than in a vehicle where the driver is on any substance like .....

 

[THE]

I'm not sure you're getting my point. Maybe this will help...

I'd rather be in the passenger seat of a nic "addict", than in a vehicle where the driver is on any substance like .....

I don't know what that has to do with defining addiction
If that analogy is used, one would say that a smoker addicted to nicotine has his kids or other loved ones in the passenger seat... breathing second hand smoke and being at risk of their father waking up with lung cancer or dying of a heart attack any given day.

That is what is so strikingly scary to me about cigarettes. Everyone who is on them is like a functioning alcoholic. It's so easy to rationalize because in most people you don't see much outward expression of the effect it has.. They're not drunk or high or anything .. so society will more readily accept them .. But all of the potential tragedy is hidden until that one day and then BLAM

 

[cobaltblue]

I still don't see how they can ban nicotine and still allow cigarette sales.. I think those .......s have themselves in a bit of a corner, on this one... I know that they will just do some illegal rapey politics to try and screw us out of vaping, some how, but they'll at least be clearly 100% in the wrong. If that even matters any more!!

irwink said it best with, "When has being 100% wrong ever stopped the US government?"

Think about the U.S. food supply. The grocery stores are full of products that are nothing more than science projects made from corn and soy by agribusiness...and unnecessarily subsidized at tax payer expense. Factory farm practices fill the food supply with things like ecoli, listeria, salmonella, etc. as well as polluting the water. Agribusiness wants to use herbicides and pesticides so those go into the food you get to eat. Veggie libel laws prohibit people from speaking out in certain States. Agribusiness wanted in on the "organic" produce market, so now the list of chemicals allowed to be used on organic produce has been expanded.

BP, BT and agribusiness can do what they want, and it doesnt help that execs from these corporate cartels are then appointed into the highest positions of BG. So to bring it back full-circle...

If you have a PV and are equating nic to the likes of something like .... addiction, then good luck against ever gaining ground against a machine so powerful as BG + The Corporate Cartel. Because in my view they are mainly one in the same.

 

[THE]

irwink said it best with, "When has being 100% wrong ever stopped the US government?"

Think about the U.S. food supply. The grocery stores are full of products that are nothing more than science projects made from corn and soy by agribusiness...and unnecessarily subsidized at tax payer expense. Factory farm practices fill the food supply with things like ecoli, listeria, salmonella, etc. as well as polluting the water. Agribusiness wants to use herbicides and pesticides so those go into the food you get to eat. Veggie libel laws prohibit people from speaking out in certain States. Agribusiness wanted in on the "organic" produce market, so now the list of chemicals allowed to be used on organic produce has been expanded.

BP, BT and agribusiness can do what they want, and it doesnt help that execs from these corporate cartels are then appointed into the highest positions of BG. So to bring it back full-circle...

If you have a PV and are equating nic to the likes of something like .... addiction, then good luck against ever gaining ground against a machine so powerful as BG + The Corporate Cartel. Because in my view they are mainly one in the same.

They're already trying to make growing food illegal!! And Monsanto is bigger than ever. They patent their seeds. And they found a way to make farmers stop saving seed!! A time honored tradition, a farmer keeps seed from the best / strongest crops, of course. They say oh hell no!! And if the idiot next to you is growing their junk, and seed blows onto your farm, guess what ..... they've got you!!

I can't believe what we eat. I eat anything REAL I can get my hands on. You're right about so called organic food, too. That's becoming another lie. Like "light" or "low this or that" is.

 

[cobaltblue]

I don't know what that has to do with defining addiction
If that analogy is used, one would say that a smoker addicted to nicotine has his kids or other loved ones in the passenger seat... breathing second hand smoke and being at risk of their father waking up with lung cancer or dying of a heart attack any given day.

That is what is so strikingly scary to me about cigarettes. Everyone who is on them is like a functioning alcoholic. It's so easy to rationalize because in most people you don't see much outward expression of the effect it has.. They're not drunk or high or anything .. so society will more readily accept them .. But all of the potential tragedy is hidden until that one day and then BLAM

You're talking about cigarettes and I'm talking about the nic in PVs though. Though I do believe that cigarette smokers and vapors need to stick together in a united we stand type way.

As a sidenote: I am still curious why I didn't tip over yet from both my first hand smoke And second hand smoke as well.

...and I'm still not getting into the passengers seat of a .... addict, and not a functioning alcohlic's either.

 

[THE]

You're talking about cigarettes and I'm talking about the nic in PVs though. Though I do believe that cigarette smokers and vapors need to stick together in a united we stand type way.

As a sidenote: I am still curious why I didn't tip over yet from both my first hand smoke And second hand smoke as well.

...and I'm still not getting into the passengers seat of a .... addict, and not a functioning alcohlic's either.

Oh, okay I see what you are saying.. Your belief is that it is not an addiction if it isn't harmful.. We don't agree, but I see what you're saying now. To me an addiction is anything your lower brain will strongly compel you to feed. I'm talking about so strong of a feeling, when it isn't met, you can't really function or think of other things. I guess I'm admitting that food and breathing and drinking liquids are also addictions. Well I kind of already did when I spoke of addiction being a survival instinct.

.... or Crack heads can bring you a-lot of interesting things to sell.. but I wouldn't ride with one... course, if I had to make a choice, I'd rather ride with one than drive one..... Much rather die in an accident than be pulled over with drugs in the car!! LoL over here!!!

 

[cobaltblue]

They're already trying to make growing food illegal!! And Monsanto is bigger than ever. They patent their seeds. And they found a way to make farmers stop saving seed!! A time honored tradition, a farmer keeps seed from the best / strongest crops, of course. They say oh hell no!! And if the idiot next to you is growing their junk, and seed blows onto your farm, guess what ..... they've got you!!

I can't believe what we eat. I eat anything REAL I can get my hands on. You're right about so called organic food, too. That's becoming another lie. Like "light" or "low this or that" is.

So true. Scary that a neighbors plants pollinating yours could make you lose everything you've worked so hard for in life, isn't it?

Much like the FDA banning e-cigs from being sold in the open market. No fairness (or logic) in it at all. Just plain scary.

 

[THE]

So true. Scary that a neighbors plants pollinating yours could make you lose everything you've worked so hard for in life, isn't it?

Much like the FDA banning e-cigs from being sold in the open market. No fairness (or logic) in it at all. Just plain scary.

The simplest way of explaining it to someone is to just make them aware that the government was never supposed to capitalize. We were. We were to be the capitalists and free competition would have made everything fair. What we have is pseudo socialism going into communism.. and they call it capitalism .. and so everyone hates capitalism

I don't even believe the lawmakers were supposed to be paid. . and if they were, it was meant to be no more than a working mans wage.

 

[cobaltblue]

Oh, okay I see what you are saying.. Your belief is that it is not an addiction if it isn't harmful.. We don't agree, but I see what you're saying now. To me an addiction is anything your lower brain will strongly compel you to feed. I'm talking about so strong of a feeling, when it isn't met, you can't really function or think of other things. I guess I'm admitting that food and breathing and drinking liquids are also addictions. Well I kind of already did when I spoke of addiction being a survival instinct.

.... or Crack heads can bring you a-lot of interesting things to sell.. but I wouldn't ride with one... course, if I had to make a choice, I'd rather ride with one than drive one..... Much rather die in an accident than be pulled over with drugs in the car!! LoL over here!!!

We're probably more in agreement than my poorly worded opening post shows. I just meant that "labels" can be dangerous. Especially when one group is strategically lumped in with another.

..and you and me both. Not driving with one in there either.

 

[THE]

We're probably more in agreement than my poorly worded opening post shows. I just meant that "labels" can be dangerous. Especially when one group is strategically lumped in with another.

..and you and me both. Not driving with one in there either.

Everyone on here is somewhere better than I am!! In a cabin deep in the woods...
That would be so nice right now

With a big huge truck outside, a pile of guns and ammunition, a couple of my lady friends, a good fire going, some good fresh killed meat... MmmMmMmmmmmm!! That can be as good as palm trees and beaches!

 

[cobaltblue]

I can relate to sitting around a campfire vaping with friends. Hope the FDA lets me be able to do that legally in the future without a prescription.

Still think that the answer to the FDA is just summing up what a lot of you have said: Dependent on nic in my PV. Sure. Call me addicted if you'd like but who really cares? Unlike some harder addictions, I'm not hurting anyone by doing it, not even myself because my body will tell me when I've had too much...so why should I need a prescription to buy it? Monitor its sale just like you do most anything else.

And why exactly do we owe more taxes than on any other regular commodity? The increase in health care costs doesn't apply to PVs like it does to cigarettes. Not that the excess taxation was ever used solely for that purpose anyway.