Advice needed : Substitution & Hard Choices

[NoFuture]

Hello,

So I'm into DIY since the very beginning of my vaping journey and I have to place an order for the flavors because I'll run out of flavors pretty soon.
I have to make choices, that are hard to make, but I have to.
Because the prices of the flavors in 10ml in Switzerland are around 1/2 of the 1oz directly @ TPA/TFA I decided to go for the latter option because I DIY the liquid for me and 3 other vapers.

Here is what I think I'll go for:


Fruit:
Strawberry (Ripe)
Raspberry (Sweet)
Blueberry (Wild)
Black Cherry
Grape juice
Watermelon
Apple
Peach (Juicy)
Orange Mandarin

Safe Custard:
DX Sweet Cream
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers)

tobacco:
RY4 Double

Additive:

Menthol Liquid (PG)
Cinnamon
Vanillin (PG)
Sour (Malic Acid)
Cotton Candy (=Ethyl Maltol) || Sweetner (If you had to choose between the two ?)
Acetyl Pyrazine
Sweet & Tart

Goal :

Recreate flavor that are combinations of multiple flavors and be as multipurpose as possible as well as completely avoid, if possible ;
Acetyl propionyl, Acetoin, Diacetyl & other hazardous substances.

Ideas:

DX Sweet Cream + Orange Mandarin -> Orange Cream
DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin (Lightly dosed) -> Vanilla Swirl
DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin (Less lightly dosed) -> Bavarian Cream
DX Sweet Cream -> Replace others Creams in general (That contains "custard" notes)
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers) -> Replace Graham Crackers / Pie Crust (That contains "custard" notes)
Acetyl Pyrazine -> Substitute to various nuts (Hazelnut, Pecan, Peanut, etc.)
Cotton Candy || Sweetner and Sweet & Tart -> Act as Candy"-er" / Sweetner / Round"-er" / etc.
Cinnamon & Menthol -> Throat hit

All Day:

RY4 + Acetyl Pyrazine || Menthol || Cinnamon
Mono flavors fruit + Mentho

Pleasure (mostly @home) :

Fruits multi-flavors :

I'm a big fan of the TimeBomb stuff and I already test a clone recipe that was really close to the originals (TNT) so i want to try the others that I like (Joker, Julius, Fuse, Pixy).

Custard-safe recipes (Honey & Milk, Unicorn's milk, Castle Long, Gambit, Sweet Tooth)

Questions:

If you were me, Cotton Candy or Sweetner ?
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers) : Do you think it can replace Graham Crackers ? (Is it really custard-free ... ? It looks like, there's no warning on TPA/TFA 's website...)
DX Sweet Cream : Do you think it can replace Vanilla Swirl & Bavarian Cream with the right dosage of vanillin into the mix ?
An other Tobacco that I should absolutely go for ?
Do you think this idea can work, or I really must make more specific choices and focus ion less recipes ?

If you have any comments, I'm listening.
Thanks.

 

[dannyv45]

Hello,

So I'm into DIY since the very beginning of my vaping journey and I have to place an order for the flavors because I'll run out of flavors pretty soon.
I have to make choices, that are hard to make, but I have to.
Because the prices of the flavors in 10ml in Switzerland are around 1/2 of the 1oz directly @ TPA/TFA I decided to go for the latter option because I DIY the liquid for me and 3 other vapers.

Here is what I think I'll go for:


Fruit:
Strawberry (Ripe)
Raspberry (Sweet)
Blueberry (Wild)
Black Cherry
Grape Juice
Watermelon
Apple
Peach (Juicy)
Orange Mandarin

Safe Custard:
DX Sweet Cream
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers)

Tobacco:
RY4 Double

Additive:

Menthol Liquid (PG)
Cinnamon
Vanillin (PG)
Sour (Malic Acid)
Cotton Candy (=Ethyl Maltol) || Sweetner (If you had to choose between the two ?)
Acetyl Pyrazine
Sweet & Tart

Goal :

Recreate flavor that are combinations of multiple flavors and be as multipurpose as possible as well as completely avoid, if possible ;
Acetyl propionyl, Acetoin, Diacetyl & other hazardous substances.

Ideas:

DX Sweet Cream + Orange Mandarin -> Orange Cream
DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin (Lightly dosed) -> Vanilla Swirl
DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin (Less lightly dosed) -> Bavarian Cream
DX Sweet Cream -> Replace others Creams in general (That contains "custard" notes)
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers) -> Replace Graham Crackers / Pie Crust (That contains "custard" notes)
Acetyl Pyrazine -> Substitute to various nuts (Hazelnut, Pecan, Peanut, etc.)
Cotton Candy || Sweetner and Sweet & Tart -> Act as Candy"-er" / Sweetner / Round"-er" / etc.
Cinnamon & Menthol -> Throat hit

All Day:

RY4 + Acetyl Pyrazine || Menthol || Cinnamon
Mono flavors fruit + Mentho

Pleasure (mostly @home) :

Fruits multi-flavors :

I'm a big fan of the TimeBomb stuff and I already test a clone recipe that was really close to the originals (TNT) so i want to try the others that I like (Joker, Julius, Fuse, Pixy).

Custard-safe recipes (Honey & Milk, Unicorn's milk, Castle Long, Gambit, Sweet Tooth)

Questions:

If you were me, Cotton Candy or Sweetner ?
Cheesecake (Graham Crackers) : Do you think it can replace Graham Crackers ? (Is it really custard-free ... ? It looks like, there's no warning on TPA/TFA 's website...)
DX Sweet Cream : Do you think it can replace Vanilla Swirl & Bavarian Cream with the right dosage of vanillin into the mix ?
An other Tobacco that I should absolutely go for ?
Do you think this idea can work, or I really must make more specific choices and focus ion less recipes ?

If you have any comments, I'm listening.
Thanks.

1. I would go with sweetener if sweeting is your goal. EM or Cotton candy is a better flavor enhancer, Thickener and adds body but sweetener does a better job at actually sweetening.

2. Some prefer grahm cheese cake for it's creamer effect but if it's actual grahm cracker taste your after then regular grahm cracker would be the logical choice. But you need to consider the risk as mentioned below.

3. never tried it but there are big flavor differences. if what you are using now works then the concederation would be to continue to using it excercizing moderation or try the new stuff. Only you can really make that choice.

4. Any of the Hangen or inawera tobaccos are the truest tobaccos I've ever had. Problem is finding it in your neck of the woods.

5. I think your objective is sound and being that your getting larger quantities at an affordable price (Based on what an american will spend locally) you can always sell off to your local vaping community what you don't like being that flavorings are in high demand in your neck of the woods..

 

[NoFuture]

1. I would go with sweetener if sweeting is your goal. EM or Cotton candy is a better flavor enhancer, Thickener and adds body but sweetener does a better job at actually sweetening.

2. Some prefer grahm cheese cake for it's creamer effect but if it's actual grahm cracker taste your after then regular grahm cracker would be the logical choice.

3. never tried it but if what you are using now works why change it....

4. Any of the Hangen or inawera tobaccos are the truest tobaccos I've ever had. Problem is finding it in your neck of the woods.

5. I think your objective is sound and being that your getting larger quantities at an affordable price (Based on what an american will spend locally) you can always sell off to your local vaping community what you don't like being that flavorings are in high demand in your neck of the woods..

1. So I guess I should go with the Sweetener because I don't have any other "sugar-like" flavors in my list
2. Yep I guess too, unfortunately I'm a bit concerned about the custard notes in it^.
3. I don't know if it work, the question is more like: Do you think it can work ?
4. I've heard very good things about Inawera's Tobacco but I have to make a single order, and I choosed TPA/TFA so it will be for an other order (in 6+ month I guess)
5. My objective is to get specific flavors that sounds like they can replace some other (Sweet Cream + Vanillin as Substitute to Vanilly Swirl/Bavarian Cream | Sweet Cream + Orange Mandarin as substitute to Orange Cream | Sweet Cream + Strawberry as substitute to Strawberry Cream, etc.) in order to be able to DIY more différents recipes that are available on e-liquid-recipes.

For Example:

Here are the ingredient for the Unicorn's Milk Clone
Butter Cream (CAP)
Graham Cracker (CAP)
New York Cheesecake (CAP)
Sweet Cream (CAP)
Sweet Strawberry (CAP)
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream (CAP)
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP)

And my goal is to be as close as possible of the recipe using more "generic" flavors:

TFA Cheesecake (Graham Crackers)
TFA DX Sweet Cream
TFA Strawberry (Ripe)
TFA Vanillin

 

[Train2]

Just a couple thoughts to swap or add...
I use two TFA flavors...a LOT...lol...that you may want to try:

1) DOUBLE RY4. I don't honestly know if it's very similar but more concentrated or what, but I use this and like it.

2) DX Bavarian Cream. You may want to try this instead of the sweet cream, just to see which one you like better.

And since I see you also get the AP, I can tell you that my every day all day "make it 200 mls at a time" flavor is a simple blend of DoubleRY4, Bavarian Cream, and AP.

 

[Train2]

Now I see you were trying to replace Bavarian Cream - there IS a DX version, it's with the "bulk" flavors only!

 

[AndriaD]

1. So I guess I should go with the Sweetener because I don't have any other "sugar-like" flavors in my list
2. Yep I guess too, unfortunately I'm a bit concerned about the custard notes in it^.
3. I don't know if it work, the question is more like: Do you think it can work ?
4. I've heard very good things about Inawera's Tobacco but I have to make a single order, and I choosed TPA/TFA so it will be for an other order (in 6+ month I guess)
5. My objective is to get specific flavors that sounds like they can replace some other (Sweet Cream + Vanillin as Substitute to Vanilly Swirl/Bavarian Cream | Sweet Cream + Orange Mandarin as substitute to Orange Cream | Sweet Cream + Strawberry as substitute to Strawberry Cream, etc.).

By "custard" I think you actually mean "diketones"; TFA's DX Bavarian Cream mixed with their Vanilla Swirl will give an admirable custard flavor, without any diketones.

For Sweet Cream, the best choice is actually Capella Sweet Cream; diketone free, and very authentic flavor -- I use it in actual food for a creamy flavor -- eggs, mashed potatoes, or in coffee, since we use 2% milk.

Andria

 

[NoFuture]

By "custard" I think you actually mean "diketones"; TFA's DX Bavarian Cream mixed with their Vanilla Swirl will give an admirable custard flavor, without any diketones.

For Sweet Cream, the best choice is actually Capella Sweet Cream; diketone free, and very authentic flavor -- I use it in actual food for a creamy flavor -- eggs, mashed potatoes, or in coffee, since we use 2% milk.

Andria

Yep that's exactly what I mean.
ATM, like I said I have to place one and only one order and it's more profitable for me to do it directly at a manufacturer's store. I choosed TFA/TPA because of their quality/price ratio.

About the DX Bavarian Cream / DX Vanilla Swirl, the objective was actually to mimic them with DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin in fact, but I don't know if this can work because I never worked with custard notes, only with Tobacco & Fruits at this point.

Just a couple thoughts to swap or add...
I use two TFA flavors...a LOT...lol...that you may want to try:

1) DOUBLE RY4. I don't honestly know if it's very similar but more concentrated or what, but I use this and like it.

2) DX Bavarian Cream. You may want to try this instead of the sweet cream, just to see which one you like better.

And since I see you also get the AP, I can tell you that my every day all day "make it 200 mls at a time" flavor is a simple blend of DoubleRY4, Bavarian Cream, and AP.

1)By RY4 Double I actually meant Double RY4
2) Look at my answer to AndriaD

Now I see you were trying to replace Bavarian Cream - there IS a DX version, it's with the "bulk" flavors only!

Yep I know, again, look at my answer to AndriaD, the goal is to simulate bavarian & vanilla swirl with the sweet cream that should be more "neutral" and "hack it" with some vanillin to get close to bavarian / vanilla swirl.

 

[AndriaD]

Yep that's exactly what I mean.
ATM, like I said I have to place one and only one order and it's more profitable for me to do it directly at a manufacturer's store. I choosed TFA/TPA because of their quality/price ratio.

About the DX Bavarian Cream / DX Vanilla Swirl, the objective was actually to mimic them with DX Sweet Cream + Vanillin in fact, but I don't know if this can work because I never worked with custard notes, only with Tobacco & Fruits at this point.

The thing is, "sweet cream" really isn't sweet -- it's like cream, hence using it in eggs, potatoes, etc. DX Bavarian and Vanilla Swirl actually are sweet, though could still profit from some TFA sweetener. Vanilla Swirl isn't a DX, but it *is* diketone-free -- it's their version of their original Vanilla Custard. DX Bavarian, obviously, is also diketone-free.

Andria

 

[NoFuture]

The thing is, "sweet cream" really isn't sweet -- it's like cream, hence using it in eggs, potatoes, etc. DX Bavarian and Vanilla Swirl actually are sweet, though could still profit from some TFA sweetener. Vanilla Swirl isn't a DX, but it *is* diketone-free -- it's their version of their original Vanilla Custard. DX Bavarian, obviously, is also diketone-free.

Andria

Okay, so even with some Vanillin and Sweetener it won't go close enough to BC / VS to mimic them ?

 

[AndriaD]

Okay, so even with some Vanillin and Sweetener it won't go close enough to BC / VS to mimic them ?

It will get sweeter if you add sweetener, but really won't mimic any kind of custard flavor -- which is rich-tasting due to egg flavor; people who have become accsustomed to the diketone-laden real custard flavors will argue about it, but to me, mixing Dx Bavarian and Vanilla Swirl provides a very realistic custard flavor, very rich, MUCH richer than a simple cream flavor.

Andria

 

[NoFuture]

Okay so I guess it's a better bet to go with:

DX Bavarian Cream + Vanilla Swirl + Orange Cream
instead of:
Sweet Cream + Vanillin + Orange Mandarin

 

[Sir2fyablyNutz]

If you're making a large flavor order I'd suggest finding a few recipes you like (or think you might like) BEFORE ordering so you will have on hand what you need.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forums/diy-e-liquid.38/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/forums/e-liquid-recipes.349/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/threads/for-recipes-only.10224
http://www.ecigexpress.com/cookbook/
http://www.kritikalmass.net/products.asp?cat=Clone+Recipes
http://dot1ml.com/recipes
http://www.diyrecipebook.com/
http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/1ivjog/mega_tfa_tpa_recipe_thread/ (TFA/TPA)
http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/350kul/solid_list_of_diy_clones/
http://www.reddit.com/r/cerealkillaclone/comments/37kinx/hic/ (FA)
http://ejuicerecipeforum.com/ejuice/community/
e-liquid-recipes ----google search
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lwfucwpfm1cxagj/AADTcC2CaNPhBvn5W1gn-hV1a?dl=0
http://eliquid-recipes.co.uk/
http://makemyvape.co.uk/pages/e-liquid-mixing-recipes
http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/e-liquid-recipes
http://99juices.com/recipes/popular
https://creator.zoho.com/ushatten/juice#
http://ukvapers.org/Forum-Juice-Recipes
http://www.planetofthevapes.co.uk/f...logy/70266-recipe-mega-thread.html#post773289
http://www.lediypourlesnuls.com/ <--great French site in english
http://bakeitright.com/flavor-charts
http://nouveauraw.com/raw-recipe-templates-and-development/flavor-prfiles-that-pair-well-in-recipes/
https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...sion-tobacco-flavoring-discussion-only.667055

 

[NoFuture]

Wah, that's a pretty nice list Thanks !
I've already selected the flavors in function of this, but I hoped that some "hack" would be possible but it seems that what sounded great on paper doesn't to the most experimented of you so I guess I'll have to make choices about whether or not I'll take a few less flavors in the fruit section in order to be able to make a few "custard recipe" or if I just let these go. (Since I'm not a big fan of "custard", at least not as all day / main liquid, I don't really care but I have to speak with the other I'm DIYing for.)