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Allergy is to PG, not VG, am I correct?

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Gazoo2You, Dec 11, 2015.

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  1. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    When people speak of an allergy to VG as I have seen here, isn't it PG that the allergies only develop?
    Not VG?

    Just want to confirm that its PG they are reacting to. I wondered when I saw VG being mentioned and since spoke to someone in the industry for juice and was told to his knowledge no one has had an allergy to VG, only PG.

    I need to be sure symptoms are PG related.
    If so, I will adjust levels of PG
    Hassle doing so so want to be sure first.

    Developed a feeling of phlegm in my throat a few months ago. Not painful, I can breathe but it's there and it's annoying at times. Not sure if i would go as far as saying my throat feels closed up but I did feel that way at first. I think I was a bit panicked, imagining the worst. Since more relaxed more about it, realistically I wouldn't go that far but still know it is in the way, so to speak.
    I am aware of it more if i am sitting or lying in a position with pressure on my throat. Have removed 2 pillows and prefer my throat wide open, not constricted.

    Not sure what it was, I have had pulmonary tests, checked for thyroid, GERD, a form of acid reflux.
    Just about to double check it's not acid reflux as in GERD.
    Noticed last year or two of smoking for first time I reached for TUMS. Occasionally if I vape heavier some days, I find i want Tums again but not often enough for alarm. Not sure if that's related to acid reflux or not.

    Never once thought of vaping.
    Thought of every other worse case scenario first :p
    COPD, tumors, you name it, i have thought of it but an allergy to vaping? Nope! lol

    never occurred to me until I read a thread here today by someone else who described all the same symptoms but mentioned it was a VG allergy (again, have been told allergies concern PG not VG)

    Use 50/50 juice only - Vanilla Custard type juice
    No particular vape style-have many
    Little Puffer on 11w to Sub-ohm 0.5 at 20-25 watts (best spot taste wise for custard vapes 4 me-not hot) to less common 40w using ni200 - to stainless steel on temperature control

    started before i used ni200, while using kanathal so not related to wire type

    No idea if any diacetyl is in my retail juice. Guessing not, but really don't know.

    Not going to mention the vendor here publicly, or potentially cause him problems unnecessarily.
    But even if it did from what I have read, I don't believe these symptoms relate to that, do they?

    Have been told by many DIY not to worry about diacetyl. And 2 flavours for custards I did order that have them in it. Apparently the taste is that much better.
    Unless several here that are highly respected by others can convince me that the scare about diacetyl is not overblown, I am tempted to use those flavours.
    Unless someone can point to my symptoms as either potentially related even though I suspect my juice is likely free of it, I am not even sure that it's related to this subject of allergies with PG.

    Have one berry juice, 70 % VG and 30% PG I just bought and if people here confirm its a PG reaction I will not vape anything but this berry juice until i can tell if this helps it, or not.

    Had pulmonary test done and no need or inhalers, told i was pretty good, despite 20+ year of heavy smoking up until a year ago when vaping began.

    Wise comments appreciated. Sorry for being wordy.
     
  2. Nermal

    Nermal Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 8, 2013
    Farmington, NM USA
    I didn't read the whole thing, but pg is related to true allergy reactions; that is, they involve the human immune system. There are a few, including me, who experience 'heavy lungs' or other difficulty in breathing when using high vg, but I don't think that side effect is a true allergy.
     
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  3. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    I had my doubts as to it being a classic allergy. I don't think i have heavy lungs though. Just a feeling of something in the way, at the back of my throat, as if the space there is smaller due to an obstruction. Phlegm?
    So far, no answer from doctors.
    Still have one more test in 2 weeks.
    Methacholine Test whatever exactly that is.
    Did Pulmonary Function so far.
    But why I either want to rule out this PG problem or deal with it accordingly, if it is.

    Added:
    Immune System?
    That rings a bell.
    Can you possibly elaborate?
     
  4. Steamix

    Steamix Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2013
    Vapistan
    It's possible to develop allargies to just about anything.

    Just recently seen a clip about a gal in the UK : she's allergic to water on her skin. So it's alcohol swabs for daily hygiene ( proably wreaking havon on the skin eventually), shower once a week. After that she looks like boiled lobster with a bad rash....

    Some people are allergic to VG. It's rare, but it exists.

    PEG400 ( aka Macrogol ) can be a viable alternative if your system doesn't get along with PG.
     
  5. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    Thanks will check it out. All new to me. Not familiar with term PEG400.
    Vaping is regulated where I am.
    Panic is on about buying nicotine.
    I have a very short window to purchase, possibly.
    Afraid to miss it if so.

    Guess I am hoping for the impossible. A 100% accurate diagnosis before i make a large purchase.
    I will do a search on here and see if others with PG problems have similar symptoms as I.
     
  6. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    Yep. I'm allergic to gypsum of all things, discovered when I was having a fine time playing with plaster of Paris as a child. Good thing I've never broken a bone, I sure couldn't have a plaster cast.

    Even if one is not allergic, it's still entirely possible to be "sensitive" to things; if I go over 88% PG, it irritates the hell out of my throat and sinuses. If I use as little as 17%-20% Vg, I simply can't breathe, though I can literally anoint my body with glycerin without ill effect -- I just can't breathe much of it.

    Andria
     
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  7. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    You and I briefly talked about this AndriaD on the other thread. At that time I was led to believe it was a VG allergy. A DIY owner as since told me there is no such thing as a VG allergy. I am not sure what to believe. His comment made me think it must be a PG allergy.
    I just saw this quote in an old thread on this forum

    "As an RN ,Most people are not "allergic" to inhaled pg they are sensitive or intolerant to it. Can cause burning and irritation in the throat and nasal passages, congested sinuses, burning lips, once it gets to swelling and numbness of the lips/mouth or tightening of the airway then it's more serious and likely an allergic reaction."

    Mine feels like a tightening of the airways, so if that RN is correct, it could be an allergy. Aside from stopping vaping, I can't seem to guess how I am going to figure out what it is. Looking at several old threads on the subject, it doesnt seem to be a topic people like to weigh in on, despite it being, it seems, more common than i was aware of, until I read that other thread. I thought it was early COPD or some result of smoking as I have been vaping over a year now. Never made the connection until last night so now trying to narrow it down, but its proving to be hard to do---my only option, drastic, might be to just quit vaping. But not really what I wanted to do. A rash is one thing, a feeling of a narrowed throat passage, is not something to take lightly.
     
  8. curiousJan

    curiousJan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    Central IL
    Allergy or no, I'm sensitive to high (as in 100%) VG liquids. Tried some 5+ years ago very early in my vaping adventures and couldn't tolerate them. My chest felt heavy and my throat felt tight. I use 55/45 PG/VG now and have no issues. I may try to tip the balance in favor of VG and see how I do, but that's easy for me to do because I DIY.
     
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  9. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    My concern, hoping to have had others chime in was that I am a flavour junkie. Dont care about clouds despite how it might appear with some higher wattage vaping. I hear if it is a PG allergy, to go more VG, affects taste.

    Curious Jam: That's the second option. I just ordered $150 worth of flavouring by FlavourArt that I should receive by Monday. So 2nd option was, do I stop now or do I move further ahead, buy Nic/PG/VG and mix it up to find what might work. Part of my reason for this thread was to figure out my best choice. That would be the preferred option IF i had heard from some that had had narrowing throat problems. On the other hand, I don't want to make it sound as if i can't breathe for I can. It almost feels as if there is a ball of phlegm there in the way. All I can say is I dont want to continue vaping with this obstruction....So your throat felt tight as well I see. Then there is hope that moving ahead is the better option- but no guarantee. Thanks for ur input.
     
  10. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    One last question Curious Jam. How long if you recall did it take for the obstruction to either leave or improve? I do have one bottle here of a 70VG/30PG I may just load up on an old Nautilus tank and vape only for the next week. See it that improves it but curious how long it took you?
     
  11. curiousJan

    curiousJan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    Central IL
    I switched to a 70/30 PG/VG immediately when I made the connection. I was new and had lots of flavors to try. My symptoms resolved in 24-72 hours if I remember correctly.

    If you're interested in DIY, it wouldn't hurt to get the supplies and mix small, say 10-20 mL, batches to see where your tolerance is. There is a possibility that you are truly allergic. So if your symptoms get drastically worse STOP ALL exposure immediately.
     
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  12. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    Thanks Curious Jam. Just switched to 70/30 only. Have only vaped it in between the 50/50 so would not have known if it was better or not. I also just read this on another thread by a Kurt/ECF Veteran: If you are having to drink a lot of water all the time due to dry mouth, then PG is affecting you. What affects us topically at first eventually can become systemic.

    I have been fighting a non stop dry mouth + was putting it down to the fact I am bad and don't drink enough water, as I should. I tend to reach for smoothies, milk or sugar free juice. Figured the juice, since you just put in a few drops of flavouring, would make up for the water I just never seem to actually get to but maybe I was fooling myself lol
    Ok so going to step up the water drinking, moved to the other juice and see where i stand in 48 hours.

    /sighs My Doctor (a friend) will sooooooo love this. He's so anti-vaping and never shuts up about it. For him alone and vaping, I can never give it up :)
     
  13. curiousJan

    curiousJan Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    Central IL
    Definitely increase water intake. PG is drying even if you aren't sensitive to it. And, yep, water is more hydrating than juice, something about the body having to process the non-water stuff to get to the water part, I think.

    Hope you get it figured out!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    More I think of it I now realize this is what it is and is likely an allergy rather than an intolerance. I have also been fighting one other symptom I wont get into here for months. It was the first problem I had and no one believed it could be due to vaping but I had my doubts even then. It would play into what Kurt said, how an allergy will likely affect you topically at first, and then become systemic. The first symptom has not stopped and it did start around the same time I first noticed my throat but while it stuck around, my throat issue went away for some time but came back about 4 weeks ago. But with a vengeance, by comparison to the earlier feel.

    In any event, putting it together now, I am siding on an allergy but I have just never had one before in my life so my instincts did not go that route.
     
  15. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    That definitely sounds like quite a common reaction to high-VG vaping. For me, it feels like there's *something* in my chest that needs to be coughed up, like a cat with a stubborn hairball -- literally it feels like hair or something in my chest -- but I just can't move it or get it out; since I can't get it out, it makes me wheeze, and quite breathless -- an exacerbation of my asthma. Others report symptoms like tightness, heaviness, coughing up lots of mucus or the inability, as I suffer, to cough up anything and thus relieve it.

    A lot of us do think that reports of "allergy" to PG are overstated, and actually represent a far more typical *sensitivity*, because PG does have the ability to irritate, though everyone has a different threshold for where that irritation occurs -- I can tolerate quite a lot of it, obviously; some people can barely tolerate *any* -- but it's generally irritation, if it's PG; thickness, heaviness, or tightness, if it's VG.

    Nevertheless, allergy *is* possible, to either substance, but yes, the symptoms of true allergy are usually rather different; rash, itching, maybe nausea/vomiting, or even anaphylaxis -- a total inability to breathe due to swelling in the throat/airways. True anaphylaxis, though, is very sudden, very severe, and entirely life-threatening if treatment is not received IMMEDIATELY -- a shot of epinephrine usually, accompanied by massive doses of strong antihistamines and/or steroids.

    Andria
     
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  16. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    Not important, deleted as it was a repeated bit of info
     
  17. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    Nevertheless, allergy *is* possible, to either substance, but yes, the symptoms of true allergy are usually rather different; rash, itching, maybe nausea/vomiting, or even anaphylaxis -- a total inability to breathe due to swelling in the throat/airways. True anaphylaxis, though, is very sudden, very severe, and entirely life-threatening if treatment is not received IMMEDIATELY -- a shot of epinephrine usually, accompanied by massive doses of strong antihistamines and/or steroids.

    V
    ery aware of the above and it's been discussed with my doctor-led to pulmonary, etc, all listed above but they don't seem too concerned although I thought a bit overreaction with the shot for pneumonia but who was i to argue---ok so back to the VG possibilities again--if that IS the case than the 70/30 might not be such a wise chance to take. :)

    IF a true allergy, I think i would have had a much more severe reaction. I will mention that i never had any of this when I vaped on a tight draw Nautilus at low wattage. It all took place when I began to subohm but that could be coincidental. I'm not being careless. I am in touch with my body quite well I believe. This is all too much for most to read. People prefer 2 word slang/sentences. I cant type that way. Ok, I will now go look up VG allergy/intolerance and see if its common and exact symptoms across the board. I might just have to put down the vape mod and sit it out 24/48 hours and see if any changes happen.
     
  18. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    For me, it feels like there's *something* in my chest that needs to be coughed up, like a cat with a stubborn hairball -- but I just can't move it or get it out; since I can't get it out. Others report symptoms like tightness, heaviness, coughing up lots of mucus or the inability, as I suffer, to cough up anything and thus relieve it.

    Yeah, that's it-then you likely understand the reason not to panic but be aware of it and the desire to figure out what it is.

    (In my throat though, at the back of it)
     
  19. Gazoo2You

    Gazoo2You Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2015
    Why on earth would a big DIY supplier tell me it could not be VG related, it does not exist and could only be PG then? Its not as if he was going to lose or make more money either way? Arrrgh.

    Added- Too many opinions. Getting confused lol Time to tune out for a while i think.

    Thank you for everyones help
     
  20. AndriaD

    AndriaD Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2014
    LawrencevilleGA
    I've run into a whole lot of this, people completely stymied by my intolerance to VG and resulting need of very high PG -- some yutz counter-clerk at my local vape shop, trying to sell me some of their high-VG juice and being told that I have to make my own as I need 84%-85% PG, said "I've never HEARD of anyone using that much PG!" Thankfully the owner set him straight and made him shut it. :D Lots of folks round here told me when I started, oh, you just need higher VG. WRONG! When I once tried 67Pg/33VG, I had such a bad asthma attack I almost couldn't even inhale from my Ventolin inhaler! :facepalm:

    Those of us intolerant of VG, or at least, intolerant of more than just a little, are less common than those intolerant of PG, but we do exist. Maybe we need a special thread just for discussions of this Vg intolerance -- BlueJess's might do just fine, with the title about VG hating her. :D

    Andria
     
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