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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?
- Thread starter Prometheus72
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Absolutely 100% true. When I had my son, my mom was appalled that I wasn't sterilizing anything. I asked the doc about it, and this is just what he told me, that if babies don't encounter ordinary bacteria as soon as they're on the planet breathing air, their immune systems won't develop properly, and they won't be able to fight off the really nasty ones.
And that's exactly why all this "hand sanitizer" crap is just exactly that, CRAP. Keep your hands washed, and your fingers out of your facial orifices, and hand sanitizer is NOT required. If people keep using it at the rates they are, pretty soon we're gonna have a whole host of resistant bacteria strains.
Andria
What you are saying is like those that said that disk brakes are safer than drum brakes on motorcycles. That we don't need ABS and that if you don't think disk brakes are safe enough for you, it is time for you to stop riding. That argument does not make much sense in the safety of motorcycling and has been refuted by most major manufacturers. They are all moving towards ABS on road bikes.
IMO, making vaping safer by having regulations concerning the mixing and the identification of the ingredients used are very basic requirements. The fact that vaping is safer than smoking has nothing to do with making vaping safer.
I think many here are behaving like austriches. Ignoring danger does not make it go away because it is not as bad as another danger is still
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Inhaling air comes with risks, too. That recent study from USC showed higher levels of toxins in outdoor air than in e-cig vape. (But the media cherry-picked the numbers to just those that were higher than cigarettes). Look at the raw data:
http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/em/c4/c4em00415a/c4em00415a1.pdf
As long as the person doing the mixing is using basic food prep safety, I have no problem. I wouldn't feel bad letting anyone try my liquid, and I mix it at my kitchen table with the same basic sanitary rules I use for cooking. I don't really think anything more than that is required.
But that's not really the same thing. The risk is real, understandable, and quantified when it comes to motorcycles and brakes. And the "spread" is also much wider, since an out-of-control motorcycle can also cause damage to other drivers. It goes even further than that, are you saying that no motorcycle should be allowed in the road if it doesn't have ABS? The guy (or gal) who buys a motorcycle, or painstakingly restores an indian, ought to be able to make the choice for themselves, right?
OK you are ducking the question here. What regulations do you want. SPECIFICALLY. I've heard a hundred people here say "We need regulations". I haven't seen a single person propose what kind of regulations they are talking about (other than labeling and child-proofing). The only concrete proposal for regulation has come from the fda. And it is a load of, well, you know.
Did you stop riding your bike because you didn't want to ignore the danger (even with ABS) or did you decide you were safe enough?
And are you comfortable making that same decision for everyone else?
E-liquids that will crack, haze, melt, etc, a plastic tank is because of a chemical reaction with the plastic, not because they are caustic.
As soon as the analogies begin rational discussion ends.
Do you understand the costs, time frames and processes to get a single flavor approved as GRAS for inhalation.
The estimated cost for a single flavor is 1 ~ 4 million and 2 ~ 5 years for testing and approval, 1000 ~ 10,000 pages of testing methods & results and application paper work, not including any clarification, rebuttal or supplementary additions.
Times that by every single flavor and then every mixture of flavors.
Who do you think pays for it, the manufacturer,,, where are any of the US based e liquid manufactures going to get the money.
Whatcha gonna vape while you're waiting on your $50+ per 30 ml regulated tested labeled certified safe bottle of juice.
Or you could do your own homework and buy from reputable vendors that currently do meet your expectations.
Do you understand the costs, time frames and processes to get a single flavor approved as GRAS for inhalation.
The estimated cost for a single flavor is 1 ~ 4 million and 2 ~ 5 years for testing and approval, 1000 ~ 10,000 pages of testing methods & results and application paper work, not including any clarification, rebuttal or supplementary additions.
Times that by every single flavor and then every mixture of flavors.
Who do you think pays for it, the manufacturer,,, where are any of the US based e liquid manufactures going to get the money.
Whatcha gonna vape while you're waiting on your $50+ per 30 ml regulated tested labeled certified safe bottle of juice.
Or you could do your own homework and buy from reputable vendors that currently do meet your expectations.
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Which e-juice vendor list the ingredients on its bottles ? This is the minimum acceptable from a consumer point of view. I personnaly want to make sure there are no natural biological ingredients or other organic compounds.
PG, VG, Nicotine, Artificial and Natural flavorings. Artificial and natural colors.
That covers the ingredients in every juice I've ever purchased (not that every one has all of these). And that description complies with every FDA-mandated food-product labeling I've ever seen.
So tell me this: What labeling do you want to see? there are no natural biological ingredients or other organic compounds.
is meaningless. VG is VEGETABLE glycerine, and is derived from organic material. So is nicotine. And that might be your concern, I personally don't give a rat's. I am more concerned that there are no metals or poisons in the liquid. Cyanide, arsenic, strychnine, napalm, lye, nitric acid, all of these would be OK under your criteria.
How do you feel about helmet laws?
What about sub standard ingredients, non food grade, expired pg or vg or nicotine or flavorings?? Cause no company would ever do that right?? I mean they wouldn't cut corners to improve profits without regard to your safety would they?? If their website says it's the best it must be. Would a company lie?? Make false claims about health benefits and all the while be misleading you and using potentially dangerous ingredients even though they tell you otherwise?? Would they buy ingredients from other countries, import them, and then mix it themselves and slap on a label that says made in the USA?? Do you think just maybe??
I suggest you go into your pantry and refrigerator and ask the same questions about what you see there.
There is already a remedy for this situation. Companies get sued all the time for false advertising. Regulations would do nothing to remedy this. I'm not sure you understand how profits actually work.
I agree with everything you said sub4me. Unfortunately, no one in the US is currently considering regulatory changes that would only address these concerns. The regulations the FDA is looking at would go a whole lot further than that, essentially eliminating the majority of the hardware and juices on the market today.
I'm fine with sensible regulation. I'm against what may be coming. It will not affect me, but a whole lot of people who would have switched from smoking to vaping will not do that if the proposed FDA regs are approved as they are now.
Vaping safe is also not quite as easy as you may think it is. Food safe is not inhalation safe. Not everyone understands that and most people don't know what ingredients are safe to inhale in what dosages.
One non-organic strawberry food flavoring has the following ingredients:
amyl acetate,
amyl butyrate,
amyl valerate,
anethol,
anisyl formate,
benzyl acetate,
benzyl isobutyrate,
butyric acid,
cinnamyl isobutyrate,
cinnamyl valerate,
cognac essential oil,
diacetyl,
dipropyl ketone,
ethyl acetate,
ethyl amyl ketone,
ethyl butyrate,
ethyl cinnamate,
ethyl heptanoate,
ethyl heptylate,
ethyl lactate,
ethyl methylphenylglycidate,
ethyl nitrate,
ethyl propionate,
ethyl valerate,
heliotropin,
hydroxyphenyl-2-butanone (10 percent solution in alcohol),
a-ionone,
isobutyl anthranilate,
isobutyl butyrate,
lemon essential oil,
maltol,
4-methylacetophenone,
methyl anthranilate,
methyl benzoate,
methyl cinnamate,
methyl heptine carbonate,
methyl naphthyl ketone,
methyl salicylate,
mint essential oil,
neroli essential oil,
nerolin,
neryl isobutyrate,
orris butter,
phenethyl alcohol,
rose,
rum ether,
g-undecalactone,
vanillin, and
solvent.
Good luck with that
Almost all the ingredients and nic are from china. Dekang and others will list their sources for PG and VG as being Dow but other than that I don't know any that list them. I have a feeling that if this stuff gets "REGULATED" the china juice will be very close already. It is our USA domestic producers that will have a problem with it. Dekang makes like 80% of the worlds juice. They already have their ducks in a row, just tell them what to show the FDA.
- Joe
Poster, you are definatly not alone here. I spoke with a guy who makes his own and claims to sell it. I asked him were he gets his supplies. His answer was the internet. I asked him how can he be sure of quality of what's he's buying and asked if he knew where his supplier got their supplies from. He has no idea.
Yet he has no problem passing around a substance he made at home from uncertain ingredients and asking people to ingest it.
Yet he has no problem passing around a substance he made at home from uncertain ingredients and asking people to ingest it.
I suggest you read some of the threads here; FDA Regulations.
The FDA does not care about the health of smokers or vapers. It sucks, but it is what it is.
I agree with everything you said sub4me. Unfortunately, no one in the US is currently considering regulatory changes that would only address these concerns. The regulations the FDA is looking at would go a whole lot further than that, essentially eliminating the majority of the hardware and juices on the market today.
I'm fine with sensible regulation. I'm against what may be coming. It will not affect me, but a whole lot of people who would have switched from smoking to vaping will not do that if the proposed FDA regs are approved as they are now.
Vaping safe is also not quite as easy as you may think it is. Food safe is not inhalation safe. Not everyone understands that and most people don't know what ingredients are safe to inhale in what dosages.
One non-organic strawberry food flavoring has the following ingredients:
amyl acetate,
amyl butyrate,
amyl valerate,
anethol,
anisyl formate,
benzyl acetate,
benzyl isobutyrate,
butyric acid,
cinnamyl isobutyrate,
cinnamyl valerate,
cognac essential oil,
diacetyl,
dipropyl ketone,
ethyl acetate,
ethyl amyl ketone,
ethyl butyrate,
ethyl cinnamate,
ethyl heptanoate,
ethyl heptylate,
ethyl lactate,
ethyl methylphenylglycidate,
ethyl nitrate,
ethyl propionate,
ethyl valerate,
heliotropin,
hydroxyphenyl-2-butanone (10 percent solution in alcohol),
a-ionone,
isobutyl anthranilate,
isobutyl butyrate,
lemon essential oil,
maltol,
4-methylacetophenone,
methyl anthranilate,
methyl benzoate,
methyl cinnamate,
methyl heptine carbonate,
methyl naphthyl ketone,
methyl salicylate,
mint essential oil,
neroli essential oil,
nerolin,
neryl isobutyrate,
orris butter,
phenethyl alcohol,
rose,
rum ether,
g-undecalactone,
vanillin, and
solvent.
Good luck with that
That is quite the list....makes me really consider moving to unflavored juice.
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