You don't think there would be any science involved in the extraction of WTA?
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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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American E-Liquid Manufacturers' Standards Association launches
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You don't think there would be any science involved in the extraction of WTA?
On the subject of WTA, I would like to go on record as recognizing that some persons are in need of more than just the nicotine to get clear of analogs. The WTA products should be not only allowed but recommended for those having a hard time. It has helped a few of my friends and acquaintances and I would be very upset if they where not able to get the WTA juice and went back to analogs.
I am pretty sure there is science to WTA extraction and would hazard to guess that it is a little like making orange juice without pulp. That being said it is still a net health benefit to analog cigarettes.
I am pretty sure there is science to WTA extraction and would hazard to guess that it is a little like making orange juice without pulp. That being said it is still a net health benefit to analog cigarettes.
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I just can't get too worked up about this. I admire those of you who do, but I'm resigned. The larger this industry becomes the sooner all the "powers that be" are going to get their piece. vaping will get more expensive and choices will become more limited. On the bright side, there's money to grab, so I don't believe it's ever going to be outlawed.
I don't disagree with you either Lalasalama, hence the tiered membership proposal.
I also believe that attaining Accreditation should/ would increase customer base equals increased in profit.
Hate to admit it, I like eating at some Greasy Spoons too
We need progress. We require change. The positives with self regulation far outweigh the negatives.
This kind of business involves Our health. Our Lungs. We've had the scenario of Shrouded Secrecy and Top Secret Methods already. We have harangued and gnashed our teeth over what BT has done and what we didn't know, information was withheld etc..
And yet here we are arguing over WTA and who has the burden of proof. Really?
I also believe that attaining Accreditation should/ would increase customer base equals increased in profit.
Hate to admit it, I like eating at some Greasy Spoons too
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We need progress. We require change. The positives with self regulation far outweigh the negatives.
This kind of business involves Our health. Our Lungs. We've had the scenario of Shrouded Secrecy and Top Secret Methods already. We have harangued and gnashed our teeth over what BT has done and what we didn't know, information was withheld etc..
And yet here we are arguing over WTA and who has the burden of proof. Really?
We have a similar organization up here in Canada that was formed over a year ago and the costs per member are about the same. To date I really haven't seen much forward movement.
I have read the info and see the pros and cons. I run a non profit vape prog and, thankfully, all juice is mixed in a Lab. Key to this program being successful is that the juice be properly stored and mixed in a certified Lab. This would prolly cover 75% of the standards listed.
The concern I have is the absence of WTA- although I don't use it I know of a few friends who would not have been successful without the use of WTA juice. Perhaps the AEMSA could consider the inclusion of this product.
I also find it strange that AEMSA does not address the issue of safe bottling standards more fully. Much concern has been brought to light about juice being stored in plastic bottles and I ceased storing juice in plastic bottles long ago because of the legitimate concern of leaching.
My biggest worry is about those Mom and Pop shops that will not be able to afford the monthly fees...AEMSA must figure out some way to include those smaller businesses that have a right to be a part of this strategy.
I have mixed feelings as I believe there will be positives and negatives for the consumer but I also realize that the industry and movement cannot just "sit on the fence" in regards to support and endorsement by Government Agencies.
All in all a good start and we really should be giving constructive rather than destructive criticism IMO.
I have read the info and see the pros and cons. I run a non profit vape prog and, thankfully, all juice is mixed in a Lab. Key to this program being successful is that the juice be properly stored and mixed in a certified Lab. This would prolly cover 75% of the standards listed.
The concern I have is the absence of WTA- although I don't use it I know of a few friends who would not have been successful without the use of WTA juice. Perhaps the AEMSA could consider the inclusion of this product.
I also find it strange that AEMSA does not address the issue of safe bottling standards more fully. Much concern has been brought to light about juice being stored in plastic bottles and I ceased storing juice in plastic bottles long ago because of the legitimate concern of leaching.
My biggest worry is about those Mom and Pop shops that will not be able to afford the monthly fees...AEMSA must figure out some way to include those smaller businesses that have a right to be a part of this strategy.
I have mixed feelings as I believe there will be positives and negatives for the consumer but I also realize that the industry and movement cannot just "sit on the fence" in regards to support and endorsement by Government Agencies.
All in all a good start and we really should be giving constructive rather than destructive criticism IMO.
1. Do you think the industry is going to be left alone to continue as is by government?
Definitely not as it's obvious many Municipalities/ States are presently attempting to draft up Bylaws.
2. If not, who do you think should regulate it?
I believe it should be a partnership between a group such as AEMSA and some Govt agency.
And I have a question for you...Have you or will you be approaching Lorillard/ Blu Ecigs as they have already stated that they've been in talks with various Govt agencies and it would seem a logical step and sensible move?...I'm really not expecting an answer to this Q and I, without criticism, fully understand the reasoning.
Cheers and thanks for getting this off the ground.
I agree. But I think there could be a certification process or exam for individual mixers and as long as a vendor has an AEMSA certified mixer on staff full time then they be allowed to use the AEMSA seal. Give them a rubber stamp and let then mark each label as certified to meeting a product standard in much the same way engineers stamp their drawings. As the knowledgebase grows on the safety of products the certification could be up for renewal on a regular basis.
I generally agree. It's better for the industry to be proactive than reactive.
The FDA will be regulating the industry regardless of any trade organizations. The only chance (albeit a small one) the trade organization has at having any say in the process is if they buy a Washington lobbyist. The FDA will be establishing its own levels of safety, cleanliness, & acceptable ingredients (flavors). Buying into this trade organization isn't going to mean anything to the FDA.
I'm not criticizing what the trade org wants to do in terms of safety & cleanliness, although it bounces between specifics & generalities. My contentions arise from the apparent closed door meetings, which didn't take input from any vendors who offer 36mg & WTA. It has the appearance of a Fraternity or Boy's Club.
I'm not criticizing what the trade org wants to do in terms of safety & cleanliness, although it bounces between specifics & generalities. My contentions arise from the apparent closed door meetings, which didn't take input from any vendors who offer 36mg & WTA. It has the appearance of a Fraternity or Boy's Club.
I don't like the WTA restrictions either. I agree that for this to have a chance it needs to be far more inclusive.
Since it will be regulated as a tobacco product, I don't see the FDA having an opposition to a tobacco extract such as WTA. I'm flabbergasted why it's being left out by the trade org. Well, not really. Adam stated in his podcast that he was totally against it, & he's the vice-pres.
According to this post by Kinabaloo, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-more-effective-e-liquid-135.html#post2703356, the chemicals involved in making WTA are all GRaS:
But I don't know if the process is different with current WTA producers.
But I don't know if the process is different with current WTA producers.
I think we all understand that regulation from the FDA and possibly other government agencies are coming. That as a community we should be preparing ourselves to lessen or diffuse this impact. While I totally agree on a movement to promote self-regulation and applaud AEMSA starting this ball rolling, I think we need to examine greater issues before we decide this is the way to roll.
Firstly, even without self-regulation it's kind of obvious that whatever regs they lay down, the big manufacturers will be able to adapt and meet them while the small suppliers will go out of business. It's all about the money. I wouldn't be surprised to see biggies get on board because to them $500 a month is nothing. For the little shops, it's already out of reach. How many do you think are netting than $3k or more a month which would represent the fees as 16% of profit?
Having a monitoring association is NOT going to prevent future regulation for those who think this is an antidote to the inevitable. It's quite likely that they will take a much broader approach and yes, it will cost a lot to meet that. Some of these self-monitoring actions might be helpful, others not and some very important ones may not be covered at all.
What if small suppliers make the stretch, the regs come down and they are more onerous than AEMSA's and they still get put out of business? (I can foresee many ways this could happen). They might even be in a weaker position having spent so much $$ on this bunker and then the enemy attacks the other flank.
There's no question that our industry is going to face pressure; from FDA, Pharmas and their entrenched association with them and BT.
Personally, I'd like to see something more egalitarian that will allow those suppliers who want to voluntarily prepare themselves. I don't care about self-created, authorized approval seals, I would prefer to see any money spent going into actually shoring up their capabilities. It wouldn't be hard to create the outlines and guides online so all could access them. It would probably be feasible to raise the cost of doing that on a voluntary basis or through minimum cost structure, therefore minimum charge structure.
Before we vote on a new governing agency led by a few juice suppliers and a free-lance promotor, who want to charge 6k a year for their stamp of approval, which will carry no weight in the real battle other than preparation, there's a bigger question that we really need to ask..
WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY FOR THE VAPING COMMUNITY TO PREPARE ITSELF FOR THE REGULATORY FUTURE??
Firstly, even without self-regulation it's kind of obvious that whatever regs they lay down, the big manufacturers will be able to adapt and meet them while the small suppliers will go out of business. It's all about the money. I wouldn't be surprised to see biggies get on board because to them $500 a month is nothing. For the little shops, it's already out of reach. How many do you think are netting than $3k or more a month which would represent the fees as 16% of profit?
Having a monitoring association is NOT going to prevent future regulation for those who think this is an antidote to the inevitable. It's quite likely that they will take a much broader approach and yes, it will cost a lot to meet that. Some of these self-monitoring actions might be helpful, others not and some very important ones may not be covered at all.
What if small suppliers make the stretch, the regs come down and they are more onerous than AEMSA's and they still get put out of business? (I can foresee many ways this could happen). They might even be in a weaker position having spent so much $$ on this bunker and then the enemy attacks the other flank.
There's no question that our industry is going to face pressure; from FDA, Pharmas and their entrenched association with them and BT.
Personally, I'd like to see something more egalitarian that will allow those suppliers who want to voluntarily prepare themselves. I don't care about self-created, authorized approval seals, I would prefer to see any money spent going into actually shoring up their capabilities. It wouldn't be hard to create the outlines and guides online so all could access them. It would probably be feasible to raise the cost of doing that on a voluntary basis or through minimum cost structure, therefore minimum charge structure.
Before we vote on a new governing agency led by a few juice suppliers and a free-lance promotor, who want to charge 6k a year for their stamp of approval, which will carry no weight in the real battle other than preparation, there's a bigger question that we really need to ask..
WHAT WOULD BE THE BEST WAY FOR THE VAPING COMMUNITY TO PREPARE ITSELF FOR THE REGULATORY FUTURE??
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I have no idea who Adam is, but if this is the case, I think he should get over it. I have not tried any extracted tobacco juices yet, but I have a bunch of it on the way. I have high hopes for it. I think its going to become more and more popular.
I didn't think we had a vote. I watched the whole podcast and AELMSA addressed some of these issues that are being brought up. They are making the standards known so that the smaller venders (mom & pop stores) can bring themselves up to that standard. This whole proposal is voluntary. Everyone has access to the outlines and guides even those of us that aren't in the business of making e-liquid for sale to others.
By watching the video, you will see that AELMSA also, when they can, will become lobbyists for OUR rights as vapers to have the liquids to put in our devices, not tied to prefilled cartridges to be determined by the government. In order to become a lobbyist, it takes time and money. The vendors MUST band together and become a unit to fight big government. This step they are taking now is one of many that has to be taken in order for that to happen. Please, Please, Please watch the video. A lot of what is said answers some questions regarding the small vendors and the intermediate vendors. The vendors that are on board from the get go are small vendors. They are not the huge vendors of e-liquid manufacturing.
Take the time to watch the whole thing.
By watching the video, you will see that AELMSA also, when they can, will become lobbyists for OUR rights as vapers to have the liquids to put in our devices, not tied to prefilled cartridges to be determined by the government. In order to become a lobbyist, it takes time and money. The vendors MUST band together and become a unit to fight big government. This step they are taking now is one of many that has to be taken in order for that to happen. Please, Please, Please watch the video. A lot of what is said answers some questions regarding the small vendors and the intermediate vendors. The vendors that are on board from the get go are small vendors. They are not the huge vendors of e-liquid manufacturing.
Take the time to watch the whole thing.
Adam is one of the owners of Vaporcast Store. VC started as a podcast & moved into e-liquid manufacturing & a retail store in Ohio. There are two of the owners of VC on the BOD, as well as the guy who is supposed to be making a vaping documentary after soliciting $20,000 worth of funding from the community.
For as long as I have been here, the consensus answer has always been a Trade Association.
Not that I would ever try to discourage alternative ideas.
But from what I've seen this discussion has been going on for years now.
And this has always been what most people felt would be the way to prepare for the regulatory future.
Personally, I wouldn't mind one bit if there were better ideas.
And I thank you for telling me why you think as you do. Very informative.
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