American E-Liquid Manufacturers' Standards Association launches

[snork]

WHO gave them the right to set the rules ?????

Oh wait : They TOOK it : with backing from ECF ! ,

I am not saying this is a bad idea or that an industry assoc. for juice would not come about over time or that it is a bad thing, BUT when you have businesses getting together to tell other businesses what and HOW to do things it becomes a problem especially when it is endorsed as this one is. <snip good stuff>

The only endorsement that will count in the end is ours.

 

[Caridwen]

WHO gave them the right to set the rules ?????

Oh wait : They TOOK it : with backing from ECF ! ,

Really? This is backed by ECF? How so?

 

[oldsoldier]

WHO gave them the right to set the rules ?????

Oh wait : They TOOK it : with backing from ECF ! ,

I am not saying this is a bad idea or that an industry assoc. for juice would not come about over time or that it is a bad thing, BUT when you have businesses getting together to tell other businesses what and HOW to do things it becomes a problem especially when it is endorsed as this one is.

One of the members of this Co-OP ( as I call it ) has mentioned several times that businesses have NO RIGHT to patents/trademarks to be able to protect thier designs or images in a market , this company is now part of this CO-OP !!

Anyhow the cost is prohibitive ( from what we have heard , not sure if it is true ??? ) but $450/mo is ridiculous , our Fiber Optics Market has a trade assoc . and the dues are 1/7 th of this price , it is a much bigger market with tons of $$$$ .

Makes you wonder what the real motives are. and why they are not responding . ( Ya I know you are too busy to answer the community you claim to serve. )

And once again Buzz spouts off. ECF's involvement with AEMSA is we started a discussion thread.

 

[BuzzKill]

And once again Buzz spouts off. ECF's involvement with AEMSA is we started a discussion thread.

ECF promoted it all over the forum OLD !!! not me or anybody else , ECF promoted it correct ???

I mean that was a HEADLINE I got wasn't it "??? that is controlled BY ECF ???? or was I dreaming

So If what you did was normal will ECF PROMOTE my patent when it issues ??

 

[martinc]

I vote oldsoldier for prez!

 

[BuzzKill]

Previous post to be deleted soon

 

[Caridwen]

**Sigh**

I was going to state in the OP that ECF has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this organisation, but I thought It was implicit in the way I introduced it. So, for clarity:

ECF has no connection with AEMSA whatsoever, save for my personal support in ensuring that everyone knows about them.

The reason that the announcement is ubitquitous is that I wanted everyone to see it, because I think it's important. You can dismiss the message by clicking the little cross if you don't want to see it any more!

Clear?

Here ya go.

 

[Quick1]

My point is who decides what is proper for the guidelines and who decides whats acceptable for additives like coloring and things like that. Right now its just a few guys making choices and collecting money for something that could effect everyone in the future. Is that okay with you? Who is watching them and making sure they are doing what is best for our community? They want to represent the community with regulations to the FDA. I want to make sure more people are involved in these decisions. This is a big deal.

WHO gave them the right to set the rules ?????

Oh wait : They TOOK it : with backing from ECF ! ,

I am not saying this is a bad idea or that an industry assoc. for juice would not come about over time or that it is a bad thing, BUT when you have businesses getting together to tell other businesses what and HOW to do things it becomes a problem especially when it is endorsed as this one is.

Yikes, did I miss something?

I was unaware they took the right to anything other than their certification stamp.
I was unaware they were proposing any sort of enforcement? Or that they had the authority to do so?
My understanding was that if you met the criteria you got their "stamp of approval" or you could display their logo or get listed as a member in compliance or something like that. Is that "TELLING someone HOW to do it"? What exactly are they forcing on anyone and how are they forcing it if they are?

Sounds like vendors organizing for a larger voice on the regulations side.
On the community side I believe it is entirely up to the consumer. How important is it to YOU that your vendor is AEMSA certified? The more consumers that feel that way then the more value that certification has to a vendor. Entirely consumer driven there isn't it?

 

[Caridwen]

Yikes, did I miss something?

I was unaware they took the right to anything other than their certification stamp.
I was unaware they were proposing any sort of enforcement? Or that they had the authority to do so?
My understanding was that if you met the criteria you got their "stamp of approval" or you could display their logo or get listed as a member in compliance or something like that. Is that "TELLING someone HOW to do it"? What exactly are they forcing on anyone and how are they forcing it if they are?

Sounds like vendors organizing for a larger voice on the regulations side.
On the community side I believe it is entirely up to the consumer. How important is it to YOU that your vendor is AEMSA certified? The more consumers that feel that way then the more value that certification has to a vendor. Entirely consumer driven there isn't it?

That's how I saw this.

Since I've been here and I'm sure way before that, there have been 2-3 threads a week from people asking about how juice is made, where it's made, is it sanitary, do they wear hairnets, etc. etc. You hear the 'bathtub' remark posted over and over. For those folks, this is what they want. Someone came along and decided to address that.

Others are happy with the vendors they purchase from (me!) and will continue to purchase from them.

It's your money. If it makes you happy to purchase from a supplier that uses organic flavorings, or juice made from a certified lab and you're willing to pay for it, it's your right to do what you want with your money.

I applaud the effort until I see a reason not to. If someone thinks this could be done differently, give it a try.

 

[kwalka]

I think we have two discussions taking place at the same time.

One discussion is what should be required for AEMSA to ensure the safety of vapers.
And one discussion is what should be required for AEMSA to keep the FDA from crushing the vaping world.

And it seems to me that a lot of people are talking from one point of view, and some from the other.

And the conversation we all should be having is what we can do as a whole to protect what is saving so many of our lives, and potentially so many others. Not ripping apart one of the first real attempts at organization.

 

[oldsoldier]

ECF promoted it all over the forum OLD !!! not me or anybody else , ECF promoted it correct ???

I mean that was a HEADLINE I got wasn't it "??? that is controlled BY ECF ???? or was I dreaming

So If what you did was normal will ECF PROMOTE my patent when it issues ??

Actually Buzz we might just if it is of great interest to the vaping community. I'm sure that when it is issued there will be one huge thread about the death of VV and how your patent will drive up the costs

I know you disagree with the way ECF chooses to do business, but it is what it is. This discussion is about AEMSA's launch -- not about ECF conspiracy theories .

 

[kwalka]

Actually Buzz we might just if it is of great interest to the vaping community. I'm sure that when it is issued there will be one huge thread about the death of VV and how your patent will drive up the costs

I know you disagree with the way ECF chooses to do business, but it is what it is. This discussion is about AEMSA's launch -- not about ECF conspiracy theories .

I would be all for ECF jumping behind this. I have been saying since the day I realized that this forum deserved my support that we are wasting our power of numbers by not using our voice. The collective number of success stories here cannot be denied. This is a weapon that must be used when the proverbial pin comes to pop our bubble.

 

[Rudakus]

Everyone who keeps shouting what gives them the right to do this and who do they think they are etc. There is already another trade association around SFATA.org If you would rather them with their Asian backers help decide the fate of electronic cigs there ya go.

 

[thinkingaboutit]

ECF promoted it all over the forum OLD !!! not me or anybody else , ECF promoted it correct ???

I mean that was a HEADLINE I got wasn't it "??? that is controlled BY ECF ???? or was I dreaming

So If what you did was normal will ECF PROMOTE my patent when it issues ??

The horror!!! What gives them the right to promote something they think is important on their own website??? They should know better and filter all posts through you to ensure you agree and approve.

 

[HarmonyPB]

I would take these posts a little more seriously if some people could get the acronym right. It took 50 posts for someone to use the right one!
Or is AEMSTA some inside joke that I am on the outside of?
Perhaps they changed their name recently?

Either way...all good points! Keep it up

 

[filter]

vapedudes sells a caffeinated eliquid- fail.
vendors that sell eliquid with a nic level of 36mg/ml- fail.
vendors that sell eliquid that contains wta- fail.
vendors that add food coloring that will end up in your lungs- pass.
vendors whose eliquid mixing employees cover their open wounds rather than stay home- pass.

 

[keyzygirl]

Yikes, did I miss something?

I was unaware they took the right to anything other than their certification stamp.
I was unaware they were proposing any sort of enforcement? Or that they had the authority to do so?
My understanding was that if you met the criteria you got their "stamp of approval" or you could display their logo or get listed as a member in compliance or something like that. Is that "TELLING someone HOW to do it"? What exactly are they forcing on anyone and how are they forcing it if they are?

Sounds like vendors organizing for a larger voice on the regulations side.
On the community side I believe it is entirely up to the consumer. How important is it to YOU that your vendor is AEMSA certified? The more consumers that feel that way then the more value that certification has to a vendor. Entirely consumer driven there isn't it?

I was simply stating that they will eventually be in contact with the FDA and even though they only represent the paying company members,they will be representing us all in some way. We would like to be sure that we are represented properly by people who know what they are doing.

 

[Ceegary]

I would like to see just one organization representing us to the FDA. They could receive input from from associations. The only one I personally trust is CASAA but I don't know if they would do it, or how to initiate that.

I was simply stating that they will eventually be in contact with the FDA and even though they only represent the paying company members,they will be representing us all in some way. We would like to be sure that we are represented properly by people who know what they are doing.

 

[Dagar]

Please get this straight...AEMSA is not for VAPERS. They are a Trade Group for PAYING Members. If they do go to the FDA which is what the plan is with their "standards" which fall well below my personal standards for e-liquid. AEMSA will be representing the BUSINESS OWNERS who belong to the TRADE group. Not Vapers, Not ECF, NOT YOU! Just them..if you pay you get a voice in the organization.

AEMSA is NOT for the Vaping community it is for paying members and the vendors. I do not think at anytime that AEMSA will do anything in my interest as a vaper. It is for business owners to protect their interests against interceeding FDA regulations.

 

[6pointprime]

If someone thinks this could be done differently, give it a try.

This.

In all the pages in this and other threads, not one single person has offered any thought that refutes this sentiment - because there is no logical way to refute it.

If anyone disagrees with the scope of AEMSA...their plans...their objectives...their fees - you can do what they did: start an organization. Make it with better objectives, better plans, different fees. Convince others that your stamp of approval is more worthy than theirs. Vapers, Vendors and Manufacturers will make their decisions based on who is better at persuading them.

You want something better? Do it yourself. Nobody will try to stop you.

That's right. You. Go ahead. Do it.

Unless of course you just want to complain and protest a 100% voluntary organization without taking any real action.

In that case....carry on.