American E-Liquid Manufacturers' Standards Association launches

[thinkingaboutit]

Couldn't be too much. Kalamazoo Vapor shop and Mister-E Liquid are little stores here in MI and I am ecstatic that both of the Brick-and-mortar stores by me have jumped in right at the start. I have talked several times in person, on the phone, and in email with Dan and Dave, and will have to talk to them about this later today when i stop by.

Perhaps it is a scale based on volume of sales. Perhaps it is free and funded by another organization.

It would be an interesting question to see answered. You can NOT make an organization such as this and make EVERYONE happy. I do agree it would be detrimental to vaping in general if the fees cause small vendors to be shunned for not being able to afford the gate fee. The concept could assist in self regulation that gets adopted when the government regulation eventually gets here. I didn't read everything as I don't have enough time yet.

Aside from links, I don't see CASAA as I would have expected. Are these organizations not linked in any way?

 

[cigarbabe]

The problem for me is "regular small juice makers" are not included on this board here.
So you are getting only one point of view in my eyes.
Why aren't any of the very small well known or not mixers on this board?
If everyone cannot afford the fees then everyone is not welcome.
C.B.

 

[Illustrated_Man]

I'm kinda curious...does anyone involved in developing these standards have any lab experience? Experience dealing with regulatory organizations?

 

[mudhill]

In the end I believe no matter what we do the government is going to run the show. The Obama administration is implementing all the government control they can now. So as good as the idea is behind this, and even if I think it's a good idea, I think in the end it will be a wasted effort. But thumbs up on the idea.

just had to bring your right wing politics in to it!!!!

Of course we all have to blame some body,,,Right??

 

[Illustrated_Man]

just had to bring your right wing politics in to it!!!!

Of course we all have to blame some body,,,Right??

Yeah, I'm kinda scratching my head at that one too...only question now is how many posts before Godwin's Law comes into effect...I'll say before it hits ten pages.

 

[Stubby]

As a small scale vendor, it was nice knowing everyone.

And good riddance to you. If you can't ensure basic safety protocols then you have no business selling e-liquid to the public. There are far to many venders where we have no idea as to what their safety procedures are, where the basic ingredients are actually coming from, etc. If you can't ensure some basic standards then find another way to make a living. I'm sure dog food manufactures have higher standards then many e-liquid venders and manufactures.

My problem is not with the idea of a regulatory group, as long as the regulations are to support consumer safety and not some inside industry manipulation to weed out competition. I would doubt that is what this group is about. My problem is from out of the gate they appear to be trying to define and limit what the liquid is. WTA, while still a very small percentage of overall e-liquid, is very important to some vapors as a way of staying off cigarettes. Why place it on the banned list? It really does show a very shallow understanding of what tobacco harm reduction is about.

I'm surprised Kurt would go along with this as he was in on some of the original discussions on WTA.

 

[thinkingaboutit]

I'm kinda curious...does anyone involved in developing these standards have any lab experience? Experience dealing with regulatory organizations?

I'm curious. I got the impression you are a small juice vendor. Did you contact them regarding the fees to join? Are you opposed on some other principle? I'm just curious if you have not looked into it...why not?

 

[Cloud Wizard]

I'm fully supportive of this initiative. Historically, unregulated industries leave themselves way to open to government interpretation. I do also believe though, that public debate about the specifics in these standards only stands to strengthen them and does NOT detract from the intent to publish. At the end of the day these types of prescriptive documents must align with real-world usage and not be leveraged as a means to marginalize the same people who have strived to make vaping what it is today (e.g. they need to be usable and attainable).

 

[thinkingaboutit]

I'm surprised Kurt would go along with this as he was in on some of the original discussions on WTA.

To be honest...his name added credibility in my mind. His is the only name I actually knew. I've dealt with him and read a lot of his information on DIY. WTA or not...his input has value to me.

 

[tommy2bad]

TBH the guidelines are not that strict, mostly common semse precautions that most buisnesses involved in a product that consumers injest would use.
They are guidelines though and until an independent body has a statuary involvement they will remain so. Voluntary standards are only convincing to gullible people the rest of us recognize them for what they are PR.
Sorry to sound so negative but I'm not knocking the initiative, just pointing out the view from the other side. Do you really think self regulation will convince the ANTZ?
None the less it's a start, if you can get the gov bodies to accept this as a fair standard then job well done.
Even if you only get the message out that ejuice is a safe product both in it's manufacture and content it's another step in the right direction.

 

[tater_salad]

You got me...I always knew my profitable hobby would have a definite lifespan before I had to give it up...I just figured what would kill it wouldn't come from inside the community.

hey fellow upsate NYer...

I've got conflicting ideals on this. 1 it promotes saftey and ensures that everyone's on the same page.. how do I know that you aren't doing this in your garage next to your brake cleaner etc? If you're a reputable seller an an active member of the community with good reviews, thhen I'd probably pick up some stuff from you even if you arent ESLASLSESPDFPDQRTF certified.
If you are www.BESTEJUICESNUMBERONEQUALITY.com and are a decent sized shop I don't see how having basic separation and cleaning requirements as well as no addative requirements so that I know that you aren't cutting your juice with water, or adding something weird into it, or mixing with dirty equip.

Maybe the AELMSA or whatever the acronym could also have a "momnpop" desigination that's not cost-prohibative and or as restrictive on it's requirements.

Honestly though, if this is going to be cost-prohibitive to many makers then I don't see it being adpoted widely.

I tell you that the thought crossed my mind to start doing some DIY with the possibility of selling.. but I realized that it can't be sustainable as a DIY/Hobby type thing becuase at some point there will be regulation from the GOVt preventing the small business from being sustainable long term. Especially living in our great state of NY "Where protecting PPL from themselves is our Number 1 priority"

 

[elfstone]

You got me...I always knew my profitable hobby would have a definite lifespan before I had to give it up...I just figured what would kill it wouldn't come from inside the community.

Why all the drama, seriously? Do you know something we don't? That's always a possibility, and if you can't talk about it here, I understand that, too...

Anyway, on the face of it, this may be a good thing for everyone. It might mean, that you just need to re-think your work from the business perspective. Maybe you need to join forces with other vendors. Maybe some other form of backing. I do believe that, on the one hand, a purely cottage industry will stand no chance against either Blu / Big Corporate or the FDA. In that scenario, we will only have JC juice and all the rest will be illegal In fact, in your state, I think, it may become illegal to sell your juice anyway. But, on the other hand, I hope that talented individuals who now risk so much to put their work out there will find better, financially safer and overall more organized ways to do their work. It sounds bad, I know... free enterprise and all... Hell, it is bad to the extent to which reality isn't ideal... But we don't live in a country that loves the smallfolk anymore and you can't beat them unless you arm up.

 

[A17kawboy]

At least for those who can comply with the AEMSA...

What exactly can you not comply with?

 

[Projectguy]

This thread is just like a political debate. Some are leaning on the right...some are leaning on the left. You will never please anyone all of the time and maybe not even some of the time. Let the group develop. It is only the first day. Let them explain their agenda as it develops. I think it is too early to start bashing the organization. Let cool heads prevail and see where it goes.

I would hope this is not about "Bashing" rather intelligent, informed discussion so that we as a community / comsumer make this entity work for us not for itself

 

[Ivisi]

The problem for me is "regular small juice makers" are not included on this board here.
So you are getting only one point of view in my eyes.
Why aren't any of the very small well known or not mixers on this board?
If everyone cannot afford the fees then everyone is not welcome.
C.B.

None of the vendors listed are "large" when compared to companies like NJOY, Smoking Everywhere, Blu, etc. And considering that they are taking consumer/advocate and "Subject Matter Experts" advise and allowing them to be a part of the organization (even a part of the Board of Directors) shows that they aren't locking the community out of help shape these regulations and guidelines. Which is more than we can say for groups such as ECA/TVECA and the like, whose sole purpose was to tilt regulation to something that would specifically benefit their sales models.

I'm kinda curious...does anyone involved in developing these standards have any lab experience? Experience dealing with regulatory organizations?

Kurt, the first "Subject Matter Expert" in the organization, has more than proven to the community that he knows what he's talking about in regards to chemistry and lab work. Can't speak for the "regulatory organizations" part of your comment, but I plan on finding out more when I meet with them this weekend.

 

[LordDavon]

As many people know, I am for regulation. I often ask people -- it gets them thinking -- that when their juice vendors can't fit any more mixing in their tub, do they flush before mixing in "the bowl". It's a little extreme, but it does ask the question: Do you know how your juice is made?

This does look like a good start, and I agree that if we don't have standards, then standards will be made for us. But, I have questions on these regulations, like: Will flavoring be regulated? What are allowed preservatives in "Vitamins or Dietary supplements (other than for preservative purposes)"? What involvement do the AEMSA members have with any vendors, if any? What limits are being imposed on the AEMSA, if any? etc. These are just quick examples... but, is there someplace for us to write our concerns and questions?

 

[Illustrated_Man]

The idea of traceability, namely...given every bottle I sell is mixed to order, NIST-traceable equipment doesn't come into play...generally, everything's measured with a syringe.

What exactly can you not comply with?

 

[the ob]

I just wish it had a catchier name

 

[RavenTai]

If (when?) Philip Morris and other large companies get involved their main interest in regulation will be in government regulation and it will be used as a hammer to remove competition and take the market.

I DIY my own e-juice yes on my kitchen table, it works fine, I test my nicotine, If i were selling it better facilities would be expected but do we really want to see E-juice production moved exclusively to corporate factory environments?


I do like the idea of a voluntary standards association, vendors can chose to join or not, consumers can choose between the vendors and what level of peace of mind they need, true free market, but the question is will we be able keep it voluntary?

 

[*ASH*]

Even that am so far but nice Idea and hope soon all the vaper around the world will do the same , keep it up guys